[quote=“almas john”][quote=“sandman”]If it were me, personally like? I’d be like simply removing the plates, convoying my willing moll in her car way up in the hills, torching the mofo and pushing it off a hill and cruising back home in her jalopy. That’s what I’d be doing if I was wanting to cover up a crime.
You people have NO FUCKING CLUE what transpired. Nor do I. And I sure don’t expect to find out the truth through the Taiwanese media or judiciary. You people would be ashamed if you weren’t so busy sharpening your pitchforks and lighting your fiery brands.
Pricks.[/quote]
Sandman, it’s a pity you didn’t feel such restraint with the thread about the preacher who shot the cats. Here’s what you wrote.
Put your glass down and your glasses on before you pluck up the courage to address ME, young feller-me-lad.
Once more, for the hard of hearing: I have no problem with people having doubts. I have them too. Hence “IF.” Its only two letters long, almas. Not that difficult to understand.
No, my problem is with the demented arseholes saying “He did it! I saw it on the TEAVEE! So it MUST be true!”
[quote=“zender”]FYI, I’ve never met anyone involved in this case.
When the chief says it’s easy to change the timecode on a digital surveillance file, I believe him. However, I don’t think people changing the timecode would be so clever as to splice in enough time for the sunrise / dawn to match the tape.
And I don’t think we need to bring in Henry Lee to solve this one.
Please correct me if I am way off on any of these times.
Let’s say the tape shows them leaving the KTV at, say 4:54, and it shows the KTV driver coming back to the KTV at 5:00 according to the time stamps on the tape.
Now, according to CWB, sunrise on March 27th was at 5:51. So, if a forensic scientist (or even a brainy police investigator) watches the tape for 20 some minutes beyond the KTV drivers return, do they notice things lightening up with the dawn (about 25-30 minutes before sunrise)? I’m assuming these tapes are good enough to tell more than night from day. If that KTV driver spent more than 6 minutes away from the club, there wouldn’t be enough “night time” after his return on the tape.
Heck, if they’ve got the tape for the whole day, they could find some shadow of a pole or side of a building from later in the day and use that as a sun dial to determine if the tape is accurate timewise.[/quote]
All true, Matlock.
Without getting into too much third-party stuff, the video coverage is a bit of a red herring here,
nobody’s really seen it, and as often as they cite it, they alternatively cite “witnesses”, anyway.
Nobody really knows how much of the DA’s case rests on the video, and ZD’s account of events pretty much makes it irrelevant anyways.
The way things appear to have developed, relatively inconsequential details like “evidence” haven’t really been part of the process.
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”][quote=“almas john”]Sandman, it’s a pity you didn’t feel such restraint with the thread about the preacher who shot the cats. Here’s what you wrote.
Which bit about IF THAT"S WHAT HE DID are you having difficulty with, oh wannabe marsupial lover?
HG[/quote]
I understand it but I think that given the uncertainties of the case - as shown by “If” - it would have been better for him not to use the insults. Lots of other people managed to write things like “If the preacher did it, I hope he gets punished etc.” Restraint.
It’s just a bit naughty for Sandman to be calling people ______. That’s all.
Now that we have some hardcore drunkards assembled, a question…
Is it just me or, if you blokes had been drinking until dawn and were really wrecked, how much would you remember from an incident such as an accident?
I would have some flashbacks after coming to, and during the course of the day I’d get a few more but not enough to build up a complete picture of what had happened. Pretty scary to be involved in a crime and not be sure of the details. Of course, I don’t know how much Mr. Dean had or how the bottle affects him.
[quote=“almas john”]Now that we have some hardcore drunkards assembled, a question…
Is it just me or, if you blokes had been drinking until dawn and were really wrecked, how much would you remember from an incident such as an accident?
I would have some flashbacks after coming to, and during the course of the day I’d get a few more but not enough to build up a complete picture of what had happened. Pretty scary to be involved in a crime and not be sure of the details. Of course, I don’t know how much Mr. Dean had or how the bottle affects him.[/quote]
Well, he admits that he was just getting flashes of riding in the passenger seat.
He DOESN’T say, you know, I remember drinking at the club and then nothing until the morning.
I know what you mean, but I think one can be spotty in memory and still be able to say they DIDN’T do a particular thing in a particular situation.
He also recalls the end of the trip.
The chief wrote: [quote] I think one can be spotty in memory and still be able to say they DIDN’T do a particular thing in a particular situation.[/quote]
Yes, that’s my experience. You remember the most important outlines, and you can be pretty sure that you didn’t do something. But, as a veteran of interrogations by the ball n’chain, the question and answer sessions are pretty tough. To the non-drinker one’s denials don’t always sound that convincing.
[quote=“almas john”]Now that we have some hardcore drunkards assembled, a question…
Is it just me or, if you blokes had been drinking until dawn and were really wrecked, how much would you remember from an incident such as an accident?
I would have some flashbacks after coming to, and during the course of the day I’d get a few more but not enough to build up a complete picture of what had happened. Pretty scary to be involved in a crime and not be sure of the details. Of course, I don’t know how much Mr. Dean had or how the bottle affects him.[/quote]
Well it does affect different people in different ways, of course. And it is his brain and memory and what he is willing to share of those memories/flashbacks that we, and the dreadfull “press” have in telling the ongoing narrative.
Whatever the outcome, a simple listing of what is known so far doesn’t paint a hopeful picture for Mr. Dean.
But this is Taiwan - eventual outcomes are hard to fathom here.
For others it’s just the normal road kill that’s why they dont care. Doesnt affect them[/quote]
And for others it’s yet just another opportunity to wax noxious about some incident that they did not witness, involving people they do not know, and in fact is only of interest to them in so far as a vehicle to lauch in to character assasination, hearsay, and speculative innuendo.
Another “Foreigner involved in…{insert heinous deed or act here}…”
Supreme Flob Action…
There are 2 outcomes to this whole episode.
One. Justice is meted out…the guilty are punished, the innocent remain unscathed and the victim’s family get some sort of financial assistance.
The other is where the guilty goes scott free or the innocent is punished and the victim’s family have to contend with poverty along with the death of their son. Injustice.
We have to wait and see what happens…all speculation will ultimately have one of these outcomes.
On the other hand, calling people pricks that have miserable lives just coz they speculate or focus on scandal is juvenile. Newspapers and news agencies have evolved for the very purpose and strive very hard to get ‘news’ to people…not because they are pricks, but because analysing, predicting, speculating over other’s problems is pretty human. Yes it pinches hard, when the subject is close to us or even ourselves but that’s the nature of the beast. Didn’t we all have opinions on OJ??? or Tiger Woods? Or Saddam?? It was all TV generated…this is a scandal closer to home so to speak and people are bound to point fingers…they shouldn’t but what if they do???
[quote=“divea”]There are 2 outcomes to this whole episode.
One. Justice is meted out…the guilty are punished, the innocent remain unscathed and the victim’s family get some sort of financial assistance.
The other is where the guilty goes scott free or the innocent is punished and the victim’s family have to contend with poverty along with the death of their son. Injustice.
We have to wait and see what happens…all speculation will ultimately have one of these outcomes.
On the other hand, calling people pricks that have miserable lives just because they speculate or focus on scandal is juvenile. Newspapers and news agencies have evolved for the very purpose and strive very hard to get ‘news’ to people…not because they are pricks, but because analysing, predicting, speculating over other’s problems is pretty human. Yes it pinches hard, when the subject is close to us or even ourselves but that’s the nature of the beast. Didn’t we all have opinions on OJ??? or Tiger Woods? Or Saddam?? It was all TV generated…this is a scandal closer to home so to speak and people are bound to point fingers…they shouldn’t but what if they do???[/quote]
[quote=“TainanCowboy”][quote=“almas john”]Now that we have some hardcore drunkards assembled, a question…
Is it just me or, if you blokes had been drinking until dawn and were really wrecked, how much would you remember from an incident such as an accident?
I would have some flashbacks after coming to, and during the course of the day I’d get a few more but not enough to build up a complete picture of what had happened. Pretty scary to be involved in a crime and not be sure of the details. Of course, I don’t know how much Mr. Dean had or how the bottle affects him.[/quote]
Well it does affect different people in different ways, of course. And it is his brain and memory and what he is willing to share of those memories/flashbacks that we, and the dreadfull “press” have in telling the ongoing narrative.
Whatever the outcome, a simple listing of what is known so far doesn’t paint a hopeful picture for Mr. Dean.
But this is Taiwan - eventual outcomes are hard to fathom here.[/quote]
Well said, TC.
I think it is also worth mentioning here that voluntary drunkenness is no defence to a criminal prosecution.
If Mr. Dean truly was not driving the vehicle at the time of the accident, he can expect to be acquitted of the DUI and causing death by drunk driving charges. But he will still be guilty of fleeing the scene of a fatal accident and attempting to dispose of evidence material to the commission of a criminal offence. Those are serious crimes in themselves, matters that should be condemned by all responsible members of society regardless of their relationship with the perpetrator, and warrant a custodial sentence on their own. In the UK, such actions would almost certainly result in a custodial sentence, even for a person of otherwise good character without any previous convictions.
It is laudable that friends of the accused stick by him and voice support for his protestations of innocence. It is quite the opposite of laudable when their support for him consists of little more than a foul-mouthed tirade of infantile insults hurled in the direction of anyone who dares question their friend’s account of events.
Every single member of the public has a strong interest in ensuring that people do not drive when incapacitated by alcohol or drugs. Every one of us, and everyone near and dear to us, is put in peril of life and limb by such behaviour. When an apparent instance of such behaviour results in a tragic loss of life, it is absolutely right and proper that people should pay attention to it, be interested in establishing the culpability of those involved, and wish to see those culpable punished to the full extent of their deserts.
[quote]
If Mr. Dean truly was not driving the vehicle at the time of the accident, he can expect to be acquitted of the DUI and causing death by drunk driving charges. But he will still be guilty of fleeing the scene of a fatal accident and attempting to dispose of evidence material to the commission of a criminal offence. Those are serious crimes in themselves, matters that should be condemned by all responsible members of society regardless of their relationship with the perpetrator, and warrant a custodial sentence on their own. In the UK, such actions would almost certainly result in a custodial sentence, even for a person of otherwise good character without any previous convictions.
It is laudable that friends of the accused stick by him and voice support for his protestations of innocence. It is quite the opposite of laudable when their support for him consists of little more than a foul-mouthed tirade of infantile insults hurled in the direction of anyone who dares question their friend’s account of events.
Every single member of the public has a strong interest in ensuring that people do not drive when incapacitated by alcohol or drugs. Every one of us, and everyone near and dear to us, is put in peril of life and limb by such behaviour. When an apparent instance of such behaviour results in a tragic loss of life, it is absolutely right and proper that people should pay attention to it, be interested in establishing the culpability of those involved, and wish to see those culpable punished to the full extent of their deserts.
[/quote]
You’re DOING it again.
EYE. EFF. Sometimes its a big word, 'aint it? We know NOTHING. NOTHING. We know precisely what the press has told us, i.e. sweet fanny adams.
Yet AGAIN, for the criminally impaired: Does a drunk person who kills a fellow and runs away deserve the fullest punishment available? Not a doubt. Is Zain Dean such a person? Who knows? CERTAINLY not the Taiwanese media, and therefore, CERTAINLY not you, or you, or you.
Christ! What the fuck is so difficult to understand about this? Infantile, Omni? In this case, I’ll wear that as badge of honour.
[quote=“divea”]There are 2 outcomes to this whole episode.
One. Justice is meted out…the guilty are punished, the innocent remain unscathed and the victim’s family get some sort of financial assistance.
The other is where the guilty goes scott free or the innocent is punished and the victim’s family have to contend with poverty along with the death of their son. Injustice.
[/quote]
I understand your logic, but you might be forgetting that victims do not get compensation from the courts, it comes from those convicted and ordered to pay. Ordering the convicted to pay doesn’t magically put the assets to do so into their possession. We have members here who’ve been awarded significant damages by the courts who have never collected them because the person convicted has no assets.
[quote=“divea”]
On the other hand, calling people pricks that have miserable lives just because they speculate or focus on scandal is juvenile. Newspapers and news agencies have evolved for the very purpose and strive very hard to get ‘news’ to people.[/quote]
You have a pretty rosy idea of the media here. I hope you never learn the hard way what they are really like. I can think of dozens of cases where the media was proven to have fabricated facts in order to spice the news up, and I’m sure in most cases they get away with it as the victims have no way to get the real story out.
[quote]You have a pretty rosy idea of the media here. I hope you never learn the hard way what they are really like. I can think of dozens of cases where the media was proven to have fabricated facts in order to spice the news up, and I’m sure in most cases they get away with it as the victims have no way to get the real story out.
[/quote]
Media is the same everywhere and that was my point…from OJ to Saddam, China to Ethiopia most of us peoples get info from the media and form opinions…even wrong ones. So folks feeling bad the ZD was badly portrayed in the media or rather wrongly portrayed…well that happens and people do get carried away and then the story takes a spin of its own. Both sides should just drop it, the accusers and the friends.
We know he was in the vehicle that collided with another vehicle. We know he didn’t stay or try to help the victim after the accident. We know that the other driver lost his life. As omni mentioned, being too drunk to know better is not an admissible defense. We also know that he tried to dispose of evidence relevant to a criminal investigation once he was sober.
[quote=“sandman”][quote=“redwagon”]
You have a pretty rosy idea of the media [strike]here[/strike].[/quote]
There you go. Fixed.[/quote]
No I don’t…well, you are welcome to your opinion!
No. We do not know this, it’s speculation based on the assumption that he knew the car was relevant to an investigation at the time he decided to scrap it. Speculation and assumption is the media’s job… leave it to the professionals.
I can think of dozens of cases where the media was proven to have fabricated facts in order to spice the news up, and I’m sure in most cases they get away with it as the victims have no way to get the real story out.