Foreigner price to see what other foreigners built

Travel Taiwan Travel
1

There has been a discussion on Forumosa recently about double prices for national-park entrance. If I remember correctly, there is at least the distinction between visitors and residents there. Now, take a look at this, here’s a photo I took recently at Fort Zeelandia in Anping, Tainan:

To sum up the above rules:
Rule #1: Foreigner always pays full price.
Rule #2: Student discount does not apply to foreign students.

As you all know, the place in question was built by “foreigners” long time ago. The only thing the Taiwanese did was surrounding it with an ugly fence, and starting to charge for entrance. And now “foreigners” need to pay more, including foreign students.

There are probably not many foreign students in Taiwan in the first place, but I am one of them; and I’ve paid some 120,000 “dollars” in tuition and other fees this year for this dubious privilege. I don’t see why there should be any distinction here; in fact, other countries often extend local student discounts to foreign students with an ISIC card.

Also, nowhere in my student ID does it say that I am a foreigner. How do they tell a foreigner then? I guess that’s a rhetorical question. :bow:

The price differences are negligible (50 vs 25 peso) – they probably don’t even cover the cost of the ticket booth anyway – so it’s a matter of principle. The principle of discrimination. Or am I overreacting? What do you think? Perhaps at least the Dutch should have a discount?

2

Well, considering the original circumstances, you’d think the Dutch wouldn’t be allowed back in at all :slight_smile:

But yeah, it does seem both pointless (considering the already-low entrance price) and unfair. This is actually the first instance of a “foreigner price” that I’ve ever seen in Taiwan. The weird part is, I’ve been there, and I don’t remember even noticing this.

3

Same practice in Mongolia.
I just don’t pay the entrance fee if they want to be funny about it.

4

From memory, the present fort is a reconstruction of the original, presumably built by the Taiwanese.

5

They are also discriminating against volunteer firemen (“real” firemen get the discount), but if you have a volunteer ID from a public or private organization you get the discount. And if you’re not from the County you pay more even if you’re a student.

But the “all foreigners pay full price always” thing does irritate me. Why oh why does bureaucratic Taiwan look more and more like China in the 1980s with computers every day?

6

This is very worrying/interesting, and I will go to the fort when I have free time to check it out.

7

How many foreigners visit this place in the run of a year I wonder? It’s probably nothing spectacular with a 25/50 NT admission fee. I wonder what the net gain is for letting the world view you as racist arseholes.

8

How is it racist?

9

The original was knocked down by Koxinga.

10

Well it seems to put foreigners pay full price right at the front of the list. I would say the admin there have a bugbear for some reason. Foreign students pay more? Seriously why bother to write that?

Theres a whole lot of other worthless regulation behind it so it’s just some nasty person in charge I guess.

11

It’s not racist, its just the work of an incredible jobsworth…who the fuck differentiates between volunteer firemen and professional firemen, and even bothers to create a category for volunteer NGO workers?

Might as well offer a 5% discount to those with an even number of letters (or strokes) in their middle names.

12

It says foreign persons pay full price (外國人士一律購買全票) and foreign student ID cards are not applicable to half-price admission (外國學生證不適用). So you might be fine with your Taiwan student ID.

[quote=“the bear”]It’s not racist, its just the work of an incredible jobsworth…who the fuck differentiates between volunteer firemen and professional firemen, and even bothers to create a category for volunteer NGO workers?

Might as well offer a 5% discount to those with an even number of letters (or strokes) in their middle names.[/quote]I agree. Someone at the city office needed something to do, so thought this up.

13

How typical of petty local bureaucrats, who think they are giving away something ever-so-precious by discounting admission to a public property under their control, and probably spent hours in committee meetings hammering out rules for exactly who should and shouldn’t get such discounts and how much should be granted to whom. First rule: Don’t give anything away to any of those foreigners – even if some of them may be, for example, tax-paying public school teachers who have PR status in Taiwan and are serving the community in exactly the same way as their discount-entitled Taiwanese counterparts.

So, taking the rules at their face meaning, since groups of 30 are entitled to a 20% discount, what’s supposed to happen if there’s a solitary foreigner in a group of 30? Does he alone have to pay 50 dollars while all of the Taiwanese in the group pay just 40? Or is he to be excluded from the reckoning of the number in the group, thus disqualifying the other 29 from eligibility for the discount?

Of course, we well know that, in actuality, the ticket-sellers will be flexible about who gets a discount, and “the rules” will only be applied very loosely most of the time. If a foreigner really cares about getting a discount, I’m sure he will usually be able to persuade the ticket-seller to give it to him.

14

It’s widespread in the former Soviet Union, and might have even originated there. From my experience, the situation is still better than here, though. In 2004 I was able to use my language-student ID to get into the Hermitage in St Petersburg for free, on par with the local students (regular admission was 300 rubles at the time, with 1 ruble roughly equal to 1 Taiwan dollar). The same worked in several museums in Moscow a year later (without any “negotiations”).

Also for comparison, in 2009, when I was still young (under 26), I did not pay for the admission to the Louvre as an EU student (I am an EU national, but I believe this extends to non-EU students at EU universities as well). And in my hometown, foreign students at local universities, as well as foreign students of foreign universities (with an ISIC card) enjoy discounted public transport prices. The second option might be stretching it quite far, but I have never met such discrimination against locally-based foreign students anywhere else, and I’ve been places.

My feelings exactly. It’s one of these moments when I feel really unwelcome here. I wouldn’t want to go there in the first place if I knew they want to discriminate like this. I also wouldn’t want to spend any money in the adjacent commercial area. However, I would also like to let them know that I will avoid them, and also advise other people against going there, and let them know the reason. Any ideas how to do that?

My student ID does not say I’m a “foreigner” (which might be surprising, considering how things work here, but it doesn’t). Will all students be asked to produce a national ID card or passport to prove they are eligible for the discount? If they cannot prove that they are, will they be asked to pay the foreigner price? Will an East Asian-looking foreign student ever need to prove he is not a foreigner? I could actually ask my foreign friends of East Asian ethnicity to do an experiment, but I guess we all know answers to these questions. It is therefore racist, because one’s eligibility for the discount will ultimately be determined by their appearance (“race”), even if it is not a rule explicitly written anywhere. (Maybe there just wasn’t enough space left for that on the window? It does indeed seem they could go on forever with their rules. :slight_smile: )

There is a certain ambiguity to the second statement, I wish you were right, however I find it unlikely given the first one. I admit I did not check.

You are probably right, but I don’t care about getting a discount, I care about getting equal treatment.

15

My student ID does not say I’m a “foreigner” (which might be surprising, considering how things work here, but it doesn’t). Will all students be asked to produce a national ID card or passport to prove they are eligible for the discount? If they cannot prove that they are, will they be asked to pay the foreigner price? Will an East Asian-looking foreign student ever need to prove he is not a foreigner? I could actually ask my foreign friends of East Asian ethnicity to do an experiment, but I guess we all know answers to these questions. It is therefore racist, because one’s eligibility for the discount will ultimately be determined by their appearance (“race”), even if it is not a rule explicitly written anywhere. (Maybe there just wasn’t enough space left for that on the window? It does indeed seem they could go on forever with their rules. :slight_smile: [/quote]

Regardless of your guesswork on how the policy is enforced, which may or may not be racist, the policy itself is not racist.

16

My view is very simple as pragmatic :

In each and every country- museums , heritage sites and local exhibitions and so on should be free admittance for local students below 18 and retirees above 65.
Any other local pays a set fee. (Including Alien Certificate holders whom pay taxes anyway)
Any foreigner (which in most cases might be tourists) will pay a small surcharge as they do not contribute to the conservation (not paying taxes locally from which x % is used by the representative body )

Again :rules apply for heritage related sites only.

Mountains - hiking paths, Taipei 101, Taroke , Spa’s and so on = equal treatment for all.

17

[quote=“the bear”]It’s not racist, its just the work of an incredible jobsworth…who the fuck differentiates between volunteer firemen and professional firemen, and even bothers to create a category for volunteer NGO workers?
Might as well offer a 5% discount to those with an even number of letters (or strokes) in their middle names.[/quote]

That was my first impression - a load of complicated exemptions just for the sake of filling up a certain amount of space. Although putting “foreigners always pay full price” right at the top is a bit dubious.

ceevee makes a valid point (people who aren’t paying local taxes could reasonably be asked for more) but in practice tourists contribute to the local economy in ways that might easily make up for that, especially if you’re talking about a difference of $25NT.

18

First clause in red writing: "Foreigners always pay the full price’’…Classic. :roflmao: Similar to the “foreigners, by rule, always pay <20% tax” regulation (although sometimes there ways around this…)

19

Exactly. Taiwanese people pay full price too. It’s just if you’re Taiwanese and a student, over the age of 65, a teacher or a fireman, you get a discount. Teachers always get discounts, old people always get discounts, firemen I guess should get discounts, and students don’t have any money.

What’s the problem, guys? Do you want be foreign public school teachers, older people, firemen, and students get a discount too?

20

What if you are a foreign public employee, I wonder?

I think that ad policy stinks of the trauma of the famous park signs in Shanghai, you know, like the one Bruce Lee splits with a kick in that famous movie? That is still an open wound.