Freedom of speech is not as much of a priority as public image here on Forumosa.
Forumosa is a Taiwanese organization. That means you are free to say anything the boss wants to here.
The reason it was never brought up is because you may object to it.
I wonder if you understand what Forumosa is and where it comes from?
I would post the PM from both Brian and Maoman on this matter but they would no doubt ban me for it.
Out of respect for the people here who do have a genuine respect for human rights on this forum I will continue to post information but understand not everything may make it past the mods.
How much of it gets past the Forumosa censors is yet to be determined.
Eric, kindly provide those links, either by posting on this forum or by direct PM to me. I’m new to Forumosa, and I have no automatic bias against you, nor an inability to believe that you have a functional brain. When I 1st started reading posts, I noticed many other posters have quite the beef with you. It’s a shame, and even while I don’t know the origin of the “feud,” I do know that to unilaterally disregard everything you say is just as shortsighted and ignorant as it would be to post unsubstantiated things as fact. I’m not saying you or anyone else does any of these things, mind you.
In fact, I’d really appreciate the opportunity to learn more (I already visited the site where you post the deportation notices; I’m looking for more, please). I don’t lean either way, quite frankly. I know that while Taiwan is a lovely place (I’ve been here for 2 years), not everything that happens in this land is the way it “should” be. I know some systems have flaws, on this island, and all over the globe. I hope you take a moment to give me the information.
[quote=“Eric W. Lier”]Freedom of speech is not as much of a priority as public image here on Forumosa.
Forumosa is a Taiwanese organization. That means you are free to say anything the boss wants to here.
The reason it was never brought up is because you may object to it.
I wonder if you understand what Forumosa is and where it comes from?
I would post the PM from both Brian and Maoman on this matter but they would no doubt ban me for it.
Out of respect for the people here who do have a genuine respect for human rights on this forum I will continue to post information but understand not everything may make it past the mods.
How much of it gets past the Forumosa censors is yet to be determined.
Check your PM, I believe an apology is in order.[/quote]
I did check my pm. Bu lai en, in essence, said to incude your links in a post that contained comments of your own. Don’t just post a link, and a link alone, as this is against the rules. The pm is friendly in tone and even comments that the article you link to is a good one. An interesting one.
Now how you get suppression and all the other ridiculous accusations you list above from such a message is beyond me. No one is censoring you. Get over yourself.
How would you know this? Have you ever been involved in a mod discussion on this issue?
Maoman is a Canadian. He’s a big-government liberal with a Christian background. How many anti-Canada threads are there on Forumosa? How many anti-Christain? Plenty. No one is censoring anything except hatred, bigotry and idiocy.
Hmm. No, I’ve only been a member since the beginning. Please tell me what it’s all about?
Having read both I doubt they would object. Ask them.
Eric, you are losing credibility by the second here.
Eric, are you saying that the posters “brian” and “bu lai en” are the same person? I was under the assumption that they are not. They have quite different posting styles, from what I’ve read, although they both come across as very intelligent.
You would have to ask them.
I am in no way associated with Forumosa.com other than posting information about the abuse of rights of Americans in Taiwan.
Post I might add are not well received by the administrators or moderators.
Eric
I’m not going to take sides in your discussions. All I can say is the more verifiable facts that are presented, the stronger a case usually becomes. I think people generally want to see how you are making your conclusions, and facts go a long way toward helping people understand. Good luck to you, and I hope all of your efforts lead to some positive changes for people in Taiwan.
That’s just it.
If you put links to facts on Forumosa they get deleted because they are just links.
If I cut and paste the text from the messages from the mods and admin stating that they are doing this, I get banned for presenting facts that they demand to prove they are deleting links and information.
In a similiar fashion if you or I go to protest the abuse of human rights of foreign nationals in Taiwan, we get deported.
Freedom of speech in Taiwan means you are free to say what the boss wants to hear.
Can’t speak for Brian, but I don’t even recall ever sending you a PM. :s It must be well over a month ago, because there’s nothing in my sent box. Anyway, feel free to publish my PM to you - there’s not a lot of mystery in my communications…
[quote=“Eric W. Lier”]Forumosa is a Taiwanese organization. That means you are free to say anything the boss wants to here.
The reason it was never brought up is because you may object to it.
I wonder if you understand what Forumosa is and where it comes from?[/quote]
Forumosa is a Taiwanese organization? News to me! Probably news to Goose Egg, too!
I’d like to hear more about your understanding of what Forumosa is, and where it comes from. Sounds like it would be entertaining! :bravo:
[quote]I’d like to hear more about your understanding of what Forumosa is, and where it comes from. Sounds like it would be entertaining! Bravo!
_________________[/quote]
First off don’t get the wrong impression. I really like Forumosa and have been very impressed with the work you have done.
I am getting this second hand from a friend in the states but perhaps it would help ally a lot of the criticism some people have been throwing around.
Can you tell us who Christene Hsu is and what relation she has to the founding of Forumosa?
ORIENTED.ORG began in 1998 as an online community for Taiwan’s international residents founded by Gus Adapon and Christine Hsu.
Gus and Christine built the website during their free time as a not-for-profit, volunteer endeavor, and as a way to give back to the community during their stay there. [/quote] oriented.com/about/legacy.aspx
So that’s Oriented and Christine (an American from the deep south, btw). Now, what do you know about Forumosa?
So near and yet so far, eh, Eric? A bit like your take on poor old Fred and Scott.
The sensible way to do this would be to make sure you have backing from someone with strong connections who can keep you out of trouble. You have the freedom to say whatever you want up and until the point where it offends someone. Then you just better hope your daddy is bigger than his daddy.
That is certainly what I am getting from his posts and I can assure you that we are not the same person. I know that Bu Lai En does sign off on many of his posts with the name Brian, but I have never even met him. I am sure that he will confirm that we are not the same person if he sees this thread. Brian is afterall a pretty common name.
I am also confused by the fact that Eric seems to suggest that I am a moderator here at Forumosa. I am not nor have I ever been. He actually accused me on another forum of banning him from forumosa because I didn’t like what he had to say. The fact that I am not a mod and therefore have no powers of banning people seems to have escaped him. I contacted Hartzell at the time (as he is the mod for this forum and I assumed that Eric AKA Boomer AKA EOD’s banning must have been due to comments he made in this forum), but Hartzell wasn’t aware of any banning of Eric. He is still here afterall so I am not sure why he thinks he has been banned! It is all very confusing :loco:
More conspiracies than one can poke a stick at here!
Just for the record I am Brian (not Bu Lai En) and I am not a moderator on any forum that I am aware of.
Have you ever considered actually researching topics before picking up the ball and running with them? I think that this is why you so often get into hotwater on this forum Eric. You take third party reports of events, pick out the parts that seems to support your agenda, and run with them regardless of the lack of facts.
Your argument that you can’t post links here is pathetic. Every one does it. Clearly the problem was that you were posting links without commenting about them and I think from memory I made a comment about this at the time on the public forum. I didn’t see the point of posting a quote and a link without actually saying why you were posting it. I certainly didn’t complain to the mods about it nor did I have any hand in removing these posts if that is indeed what happened.
Anyway, that is all out of the way now and the mods have stated that they won’t remove your links provided that these are relevant so lets see them. Where are your links to the court judgement which overthrows Ezells deportation order? You have said that these are online and that you have posted them before so it should be no trouble to find them again.
FWIW, during demos against Nuke waste dumping here in Taitung, we were told by the local FAP that it was permissible for married (to Taiwanese) to join demos if we were accompanied by our spouses- figure that one out!
Here is the real scary part.
The Taiwan police have the authority to make that decree and deport you for not obeying their ridiculous demands.
If you want a trial or judicial review you will be allowed but prohibited from doing so because even though you are permitted to file for an independent review, you have to pay the lawyer, possible court cost and will be barred from obtaining any income while waiting for trial. You will be given 10 to 30 days to leave Taiwan and even if you do get a judge to order an injunction allowing you to attend your own trial, the Taiwan police will simply issue another deportation order for which you will have to go through the whole process again.
Youy wil not be allowed to participate in your own trial in Taiwan.
Case closed.
To my knowledge the word ‘decree’ is generally only used when a King, judge (representing the courts) or a God, makes an order. I don’t know that police decisions really equate to a decree. I think that you should probably more correctly use the word ‘order’.
The local police don’t have the power to deport foreigners, only the foreign affairs police do. I am sure that in most countries the federal authorities have the right to deport individuals. Yes I know Eric, you will say but the courts need to rule. Well if you appeal your deportation order in Taiwan then the courts need to rule on the case too, so I don’t see that the system here is really that unfair.
I would like to see some evidence to support your statement as to the power of the police above. If it us true then it must be stated in the legislation and/or there must be proven cases where it has occured. Afterall you seem to suggest that it is widespread and commonplace so can you provide us with same examples that show your opinions to be valid?
Again I think that you are using the incorrect word above. You don’t ‘have’ to pay a lawyer, but you can certainly ‘choose’ to pay a lawyer to represent you. If you don’t want to pay a lawyer you could always represent yourself but I don’t know that I would recommend that.
Then comes this pearl of wisdom from Eric:
:loco: :loco:
I know plenty of countries that would incarcerate foreigners facing deportation from their countries. Even in Taiwan most blue collar foreign workers would probably find themselves incarcerated while facing deportation and this is no doubt the legal right of the authorities in this country.
This is why I don’t really understand your point Eric. This country maintains the legal right to incarcerate those facing deportation. In the case of westerners, and certainly in the case of Scott Ezell, we are generally allowed to live freely while awaiting deportation or an appeal of this order. So considering that we should probably be in prison at the stage that a deportation case is being heard, I certainly fail to see how our human rights are being taken from us.
I think that you are incorrect here.
In Scott Ezells case there was only one deportation order issued. He appealed this but unfortunately for him the court upheld the court decision and the original deportation order was permitted and he was deported.
Eric, you have claimed more than once that the court ruled against the deportation and that you had posted this information online for all to see. Where can this information be found?
Also, can you please provide evidence that there was a second deportation order issued in the Scott Ezell case, and provide us with the grounds for this second order. From my understanding he received a second notice which notified him that the court had upheld the original order and that he would have to leave, but this does not equate to a second and seperate deportation order, which is what you have suggested above.
Finally, please provide cases other Scott Ezell where the FAP have issued a second deportation order and/or ignored a court ruling that overthrew a deportation order? Again this is something that you have suggested on numerous occasions but never provided support for.
I don’t believe that they are closed hearings! Why do you feel that you cannot participate in your own hearing? I am sure that you can, but then I have never been to one so may be wrong. Eric, how many deportation hearings have you personally attended?
There are some questions for you in my post above Eric that I would appreciate some answers to!
