Amos,
You’re not the reason they’re twisting their heads around to avoid eye contact…it’s the China Post you’re carrying. Feel better now?? 
For the sake of science, I started giving a big smile and nod to all foreigners that are in proximity (did I use that right).
So far it seems that the majority smile/nod back right away or are caught off gaurd a bit, but smile back. Rarely have I made eye contact with someone, gave the nod and smile and got a cold stare. More results to come…
Miltownkid, how do you recognise an American-born Chinese or British-born Chinese? Or don’t they deserve your big smile?
But overseas Chinese are not really considered as “foreigners” here in the way that locals understand the meaning of “waiguoren”. If you’re ethnically Chinese, you will be accepted as belonging here to a far greater extent than any non-Chinese foreigner (Westerner, African, Indian, Arab, whatever) possibly could. A Caucasian born and raised in Taiwan will always be more of an outsider in Taiwanese eyes than a third- fourth- or tenth-generation Chinese born in the US, Britain, or Timbuktoo. If you pointed out an overseas Chinese to an average Taiwanese and asked if that person were a foreigner, you’d probably be met with a puzzled look and wonder at how you could possibly ask such a nonsensical question.
So, for the purposes of his smile-at-foreigners experiment, Miltownkid wouldn’t need to distinguish overseas Chinese from locals for inclusion on the receiving end of his smiles, as the overseas Chinese belong more on the locals’ than foreigners’ side of the fence.
Fair point Omni, though i’d be interested in how overseas-born Chinese would react to “overseas Chinese belong more on the locals’ than foreigners’ side of the fence” which i can’t agree with.
Ah yes, I can explain further, if you would like. The term foreigner to me has nothing to do with where you born. If your living some where and the majority of people don’t look like you, your automatically a foreigner. If your red living with a bunch of greens even if you’re 100% green by birth, but look red, everyone is going to assume your a foreigner. So even if your not a foreigner, you have to put up with things any other “foreigner” would. Just like a foreign born green living in a green country blends right in and doesn’t have to put up with being label a foreigner. (or something like that, I think you get my point)
And who ever said I don’t throw big smiles to everybody? Cause I do.
for
Labels just make things confusing. There was this guy in highschool that would get really pissed when people said he was white. He’d give you this long explantion about how he was Irish. I understood what he was sayin’. Unfortunately no matter what he thinks (or anyone) people label you on appearance (at first).
No one “belongs” on any side. You just end up there. The fact that you think people have sides to be on says something.
Miltownkid, i apologise if you felt i was being a bit facetious with my earlier post. Your explanation (and Omni’s) pretty well put me in my place. By the way, i don’t “think that people have sides”. My original post was really trying to make that point.
Labels just make things confusing. There was this guy in highschool that would get really pissed when people said he was white. He’d give you this long explantion about how he was Irish. I understood what he was sayin’. Unfortunately no matter what he thinks (or anyone) people label you on appearance (at first).[/quote]
I have often wondered about the need to identify with some non-American culture in America. Why do “Irish-Americans” and “Polish-Americans” etc exist ? I can see the reason for non-whites to make such an identification, because they are almost always referred to in terms of skin colour (“yeah, that black/Chinese/hispanic bloke over there”) by the white population, but I don’t get it in terms of whites, especially Irish, unless they’ve just got off the boat. No, I haven’t ever been to America. Could you possibly expand on your high school friend’s thinking ? I mean I’m Irish, but I regard that as a statement of fact rather than a belief. I might indeed have more in common with an Englishman or American than many of my Irish compatriots, and in fact the longer I stay in Ireland the more I realise the only people I have anything in common with are other expats. This of course is an enormous Irish problem - the returning emigrant. Anyone with an interest may like to read Joseph O’Connor’s two books The Irishman at Home and Abroad (not the exact title). Many years ago a German friend of mine and I decided to establish a little island of foreigners called Waiguo and only have diplomatic relations with Taiwan. That way we could be proper official Waiguo citizens with diplomatic status and Waiguo passports. Of course we weren’t altogether sober at the time, but I still like the idea, especially as I was going to be Minister of Beer. Couldn’t we all club together and buy Penghu or something ?
I’m new here so every time I see a foreiner, I notice them. They stand out of the croud like I do. And they notice me to, this is a fact , exept if they are blind. So I acknowlage this by nodding or greeting them. 99% of the time they do the same. Some times they don’t and that doesn’t bother me. But what pisses me off is every so often you get a rude responce, or if you ask a question (because you are new and this other bloke could maybe help you) and you get a snotty comment. But I have a thick skin so, I just count to ten and walk on.
hexuan,
Not much to expand on. It came up once in a conversation and I remember him explaining it to others. He wasn’t FOB, I just think he didn’t want to be “classified” as white. Probably the same way (some) black people don’t want to be classified as black (I mean the stereotypes that go along with it). But just like blacks can’t change their color, whites can’t either.
Here’s something funny that happened today. I was walking with a friend and asked him “Is this civic blv?”, he decides to find out by using the little chinese he knew to ask a guy waiting at the light. The guy goes “Sorry, I’m from Japan” and pulls out a map we can use. 
Hexuan,
I’ve wondered about that too. Where I’m from, it’s not unusual to ask people what they “are” if you can’t guess from facial features or accents. The island (Guam) is probably about 40% native, 40% Filipino descent, with another 10% or so Japanese/Chinese/Korean. But I’ve always found it interesting that even if someone is second or third generation American, born and raised on Guam, they will still consider themselves Filipino/Chinese/Korean/Japanese. I never thought that was at all unusual until I started meeting Americans of Asian descent who would get angry if anyone suggested they were anything but Americans.
One military fellow of Filipino descent thought we were just very rude and racist for asking if he was Guamanian. He got it all wrong.
I get all kinds of interested looks and sometimes questions from some of the Filipina women who work here, and when I started getting irritated with it, I realized that they just wanted to make a connection with someone, and some of them probably live very lonely lives here.
Interested in any other ideas as to why some people refer to themselves as hyphenated Americans. Any foreign born Chinese here with thoughts on this?
J.
Hexuan and Jennifer,
I’ve thought about those issues a great deal too. I am a first generation American. My father was born in Germany. But no one back home has ever asked me “where are you from”. . . “California”. . . “no, where are you FROM.” Nor do I consider myself German-American. I’m just American. But one of my best friends, Pablo Herrera, is asked from time to time “are you Mexican” even though he’s third or fourth generation American. And I remember in the olympics a few years ago all the TV commentators made a big deal out of comparing American Kristy Yamaguchi to her Japanese counterpart, not just in terms of ice skating ability, but also culturally – they acted like they were twins who had been separated – even though Yamaguchi is also something like fourth generation American.
I don’t believe, Hexuan, that many Irish-Americans or Italian-Americans still go by those labels. I think that was more when those were the primary immigrants (before hispanic, asian, carribean and african immigrants surpassed european ones). If someone calls himself Irish-American today it sounds odd unless it is Saint Patrick’s Day or there is some other reason for him to be making that point.
But the labels of Asian-American, African-American, Mexican-American are pretty common. Of course it relates to what Miltown was saying, that they look different from the majority of the people in the US: European-Americans. In a way the labeling is pretty stupid. I had an Asian-American friend who knew nothing about Asia and was as American as anyone else. But people asked her all the time "where are you from. . . NO, where are you FROM?’ And as a child kids teased her, making slanty eyes and making stupid jokes about rice and chopsticks, even though she really wasn’t Asian.
So, most of the time those labels are stupid. They mean nothing (except possibly preferential treatment for college admission or scholarship money). But I wonder if sometimes there may be some logic for such differentiations. I wonder if Chinese-American or Mexican-American families, for example, often retain longer than European-Americans cultural customs and beliefs that are unique to Chinese or Mexican people and not so common in the vast melting pot of America. And, I understand that it may be a matter of pride, also, for a minority-American who faces discrimination based on how others view him. Of course now that half of the residents of California speak Spanish as a first language, maybe the term Hispanic-American no longer makes sense.
While some may not like it, one can’t blame little kids in Taiwan for staring at foreigners and making comments. They’re not so used to seeing different faces as we are in the US. There are no Irish-Taiwanese or Mexican-Taiwanese or Italian-Taiwanese (same for Japan, China, etc.).
Well, I haven’t had my coffee yet this morning, so I apologize for rambling. I’ll leave it at that.
I agree with you that the labels seem strange. I can’t help but think it could only be a positive thing for Taiwan both politically and culturally if there were Irish/Mexican/Whatever-Chinese.
I was searching google for info on Tiger Woods. I was gonna make a point about something on me Deep Thoughts thread when I found this page. Can’t remember what the point I was gonna make now, but at the top of this page is a statement Tiger sent to the media. I thought it would fit well in this discussion. I haven’t really read the rest of the page, but it looked interesting.
Hope I’m not too off topic.
MT said,
“But I wonder if sometimes there may be some logic for such differentiations. I wonder if Chinese-American or Mexican-American families, for example, often retain longer than European-Americans cultural customs and beliefs that are unique to Chinese or Mexican people and not so common in the vast melting pot of America.”
I don’t think it matters what your ethnicity is, but it’s probably more true for some individuals. I mean if you’re of Jewish descent but you’re parents never practiced the Jewish faith, then it probably wouldn’t matter to you. But I know one Jewish woman from the US who makes a distinction… she’ll say her nationality is American, but she is Jewish. She even knows what tribe she is a descendent of.
Where I’m from, distinguishing oneself this way really isn’t unusual. I think part of it is that many of the immigrants who moved there and became Americans (or are in the process of getting citizenship) did so in the last 30 years or so. Many people still have accents, even people who are my age. The immigrants probably gathered together to celebrate their national holidays and other special events. When you’re far from home, don’t speak the language well, and don’t know many people yet, it’s probably very comforting to meet others who speak your native language and celebrate the same holidays you do.
I also think the difficultyof the transition makes a difference. If you parents felt discriminated against because they looked and spoke differently, they might put more pressure on you to speak perfect English (maybe even choosing not to teach you to speak their native language) and emphasizing that you are “American” and no different from other Americans.
On the other hand, I think that if the transition is easier, and a kid fits into the neighborhood and school, that it might be less of an issue. I don’t know; just a thought.
I know for myself, I never had to stress my American-ness until I got here and found that bushiban owners seemed turned off by my looks.
One more thought… I wonder if it has anything to do with people not wanting to be just another statistic. Everyone wants to be special or unique. Kind of the way the Taiwanese locals like all those little cellphone accessories.
J.
miltownkid,
I’ve always understood what Tiger Woods has said about his ethnicity. I think the media made a big deal about it a few years back and people were making fun of him, right?
But here’s another point of view. While his race/ethnicity really isn’t important, it probably matters to the African-American kid living in some American ghetto.
J.
[quote=“hexuan”]
I have often wondered about the need to identify with some non-American culture in America. Why do “Irish-Americans” and “Polish-Americans” etc exist ? I can see the reason for non-whites to make such an identification, because they are almost always referred to in terms of skin colour (“yeah, that black/Chinese/hispanic bloke over there”) by the white population, but I don’t get it in terms of whites, especially Irish, unless they’ve just got off the boat.[/quote]
The identification is not about skin colour, it’s about culture, religion, inequality. When my father was young, Catholics were actively discriminated against in the workplace and government. The population of my hometown in Canada, not unlike Northern Ireland, was/is split along religious and ethnic lines. The Protestants made up the upper class of business owners and politicians, the Catholics the workers or labourers. Over the years this has changed, but the the old bitterness still surfaces from time to time. If you were to ask someone about their nationality, of course the vast majority would reply Canadian, however you would also get responses like Irish-Canadian or Acadian.
Aside from Kennedy, every American president has been a Protestant of English ancestry. That should tell you something about the nature of the melting pot! 
Reagan and Clinton are both of Irish ancestry, no?
Chung: You’re exactly right – except that John Adams, John Quincy Adams and Millard Filmore were Unitarians; Lincoln, Harding, Truman, Carter and Clinton were Baptists; Hoover and Nixon were Quakers; and most of your other information is also false. Besides, if you think the presidents of a country are truly representative of its people, you’ve been listening to too much Celine Deon (especially in the case of Dubya, who wasn’t even elected president).
But what you were most wrong about was to roll your eyes at the fact that the US is the greatest melting pot of humanity in the world. I’m not saying it’s the greatest country on earth, but its citizens are certainly the most diverse. Name one other country whose populace is half as diverse as that of the US.