Foresight (FIEC) agency and job offer. What do you think?

Your opinion - what do you think?

  • Take it, it is a decent enough offer
  • Eh, its ok. Not great but not bad either
  • That is working for beans! They should pay more!

0 voters

Foresight International Education Center

Does anyone have experience with this agency? I have received a pretty tempting job offer through them and want to hear some feedback before I sign in ink.

Also, anyone teach or know someone who teaches at 華興中學 Hua Hsing High School?

Here is what is being offered:

[b]- 22 teaching hours a week

  • Expected to be on campus 8:00 to 17:30
  • Grades 7, 8, & 10 (co-ed)
  • Classes consist of conversation (core), reading and club classes.
  • Curriculum and a basic syllabus is provided.
  • The salary for this position is 60,000NT. [/b]
    The contract would run from March until July. Afterwards, FIEC offers a summer camp program and an option to resign. Included in the contract is a re-signing bonus of 30,000NT, which is payable upon completion of the second contract.

Is this a good offer? Too low pay, just right, or higher than average?[/url]

That’s 47.5 hrs/week you must be at the school? That’s around 190 hrs/month. :astonished:

Personally, I really dislike that age group. How many students in a class?

Hmmmm… $60,000/month divided by 190 hrs/month = $316/hour. :noway:

Run young jedi… run away…

Horrible.

That’s 47.5 hrs/week you must be at the school? That’s around 190 hrs/month. :astonished:

Personally, I really dislike that age group. How many students in a class?

Hmmmm… $60,000/month divided by 190 hrs/month = $316/hour. :noway:

Run young jedi… run away…

Horrible.[/quote]

See, that was my initial reaction too…but then the wife spoke up and reminded me that 99% of the job offers out there are for 12 hours a week or less teaching bratty gradeshool kids in buxibans. At least the hours are solid…and the pay would bring me three times as much a month as I am making currently.

I am going to up the wager on this and ask for higher pay…see what happens. You think a counter offerto work for 80,000 NT a month is unreasonable (expecting to accept at around 70,000 after negotiations)?

$70,000/month divided by 190 hrs/month = $368/hour.
$80,000/month divided by 190 hrs/month = $421/hour.

The math doesn’t lie. It’s a terrible offer. If you really want this job, tell them you will be on campus during your scheduled class times only. They want you to sit around campus for five extra hours a day? Unpaid? :help:

Even though you are still considered “new” in Taiwan, any offer less than $600/650 per hour is an insult. Don’t allow schools to take advantage of you.

P.S. I definitely enjoy a small class of elementary school kids at a buxiban more than a huge class of Taiwanese teenagers. Have you taught at a high school before? I’ve only met one person who actually enjoyed teaching in a high school.

You won’t get it. Also, be aware that the FIEC people read these boards and advertise regularly on taiwanted.com.

Like you said, you compare what’s on offer against what you can get elsewhere. For a relative newbie there are not so many options, although bear in mind that CNY is coming up and there will probably be lots of jobs advertised in a month or two. Do you want to do a ‘normal’ job, or do you want to try your hand at High School and have people talk to you differently when you tell them what you do? Teaching HS is more likely to be considered ‘real teaching’ and can be a step towards better things.

The pay is not great, but what else are you going to do with your time? What will you be doing with your non-teaching time at the school?

Find out more about the environment you will be spending all day every day working in. Someone mentioned class sizes, what about discipline and general management issues? Have you talked to anyone who is teaching there now? What are the school’s expectations? What about FIEC’s? How do they compare to your own?

Is the job all about the money, is it all about education, or do you care? What exactly do you want from the deal? Figure that out, then look again to see if you can get it.

I have worked for foresight in the past, and continue to do odd jobs for them. I seriously doubt you’ll be able to negotiate a better payment, because I have a pretty good idea what their budget is. On the other hand, I wouldn’t tell anyone NOT to work for them either.

[quote=“Quarters”]Does anyone have experience with this agency? I have received a pretty tempting job offer through them and want to hear some feedback before I sign in ink.[/quote]Yes. It was a mixed experience. Would I go back? Unlikely. I was happy to leave.

[quote=“Quarters”]Here is what is being offered:

  • 22 teaching hours a week
  • Expected to be on campus 8:00 to 17:30[/quote]That’s a long time to be on site. Have you seen the office? Contract runs into July? Is there working a/c in the office?

[quote=“Quarters”]- Grades 7, 8, & 10 (co-ed)

  • Classes consist of conversation (core), reading and club classes.[/quote]Those grades can be hellish, or great. What size are the classes? What discipline like in the school? In these particular classes?

[quote=“Quarters”]- Curriculum and a basic syllabus is provided.

  • The salary for this position is 60,000NT. [/quote]As show above, it’s not much per hour. So, is NT60,000, straight up enough?

[quote=“Quarters”]The contract would run from March until July. Afterwards, FIEC offers a summer camp program and an option to resign. Included in the contract is a re-signing bonus of 30,000NT, which is payable upon completion of the second contract.

Is this a good offer? Too low pay, just right, or higher than average?[/quote]Read the contract. Read it carefully. Read it again, thinking about how to milk it. Chinese New Year is coming up, and I wouldn’t be surprised is FIEC had a few teachers mysteriously not show up when it was time to go back to work. Which you’d think would put you in a better bargaining position, but I seriously doubt that you’d get any more money out of them.

[quote=“funkymonkey”]The math doesn’t lie. It’s a terrible offer. If you really want this job, tell them you will be on campus during your scheduled class times only. They want you to sit around campus for five extra hours a day? Unpaid? :help:

P.S. I definitely enjoy a small class of elementary school kids at a buxiban more than a huge class of Taiwanese teenagers. Have you taught at a high school before? I’ve only met one person who actually enjoyed teaching in a high school.[/quote]

I’m betting it’s not more than 25 teaching hours a week = what? 110 hours a month? Many buxibans expect you to put in half an hour of prep per hour taught = another 12.5 hours per week. Lunch is an hour a day, another five hours. That’s 42.5 hours a week accounted for already. (What else are you going to do between classes anyway? Pop out for a walk up and down Yang Ming Shan?)

So you’re being asked to ‘donate’ an hour a day, approximately equal to the total of the gaps between classes. Surely that time could usefully be spent on forumosa?

I worked at Huaxing a few years ago, long before Foresight were there. One ‘hour’ = 45 minutes in the classroom. Class sizes at that time were less than 20. Sure, it was challenging work, but also rewarding. Some of the ‘club’ classes taught there have included drama, public speaking, basketball and watching ‘The Simpsons’ or ‘Spongebob’ in the school coffeeshop. Better than sticky-balls any day. Also, the school has major tests every six weeks, which are graded by computer. I found myself watching students take tests for an entire week each time. No work involved. I don’t know what conditions are like there now, but it was not bad when I was there.

I’ve never met funkymonkey, but I enjoyed teaching High School.

I still enjoy teaching high school. At a good public senior high a few weeks ago I ran into a former Huaxing student who remembered me and wanted to have a chat. I was doing some work to help the school prepare for a competition, which they lost, predictably, to a team captained by another of my former students. He was glad to see me too! I’m meeting someone at another HS tomorrow morning to discuss some classes for them, then I’ll be dashing off to my temporary day job:

I’m subbing for FIEC at another of their schools, just for a few weeks until someone steps in who can make a longer commitment. It’s one of the easiest jobs I’ve ever had, but then again, I know what I’m doing and don’t have to rely on the material provided. Still, for a newbie, the material is provided and 15-20 well-disciplined and eager kids can be a lot of fun to teach. The pay’s not great, but the other FIEC teachers at the school are not complaining about the general terms of their contracts.

(In fairness, I’ve also done the 45 students in a class thing, with horribly inappropriate and error-ridden material to work from - for various different employers. That’s not fun.)

All the same, I’m there because FIEC seems to have a problem with teacher retention. So do other agents in the same game. It goes with the territory. A lot of people can’t hack being expected to function in a professional environment, some get pissed off with the way they are treated. I couldn’t work full-time for an agent again, and I’m not a big fan of FIEC, or any other agent, but I do try to be objective when talking about people and jobs.

Look at it this way: You’re married (unless I’m mistaken) so you’re not reliant on anyone for an ARC, so you can’t be pushed around too much, you have an opportunity to get into a part of the industry that can be better-paid than the run-of-the-mill stuff, and it will carry more prestige with your in-laws. It will pay better than you’re making right now. If it turns out to be unbearable, what would you have been doing otherwise and what will your options be?

Sounds awful to me. The math looks bad. Low wages, many hours. Of course, I also stay away from that age range unless they’re private and motivated. Maybe the classes would be really cool and rewarding in other ways, but I doubt it. That’s just me. Do you have much experience teaching large classes at that age range?

If I’m not mistaken, you also need relevant teaching credentials to work in high schools, no?

Ah hell, give it a try and see.

But I wouldn’t…

[quote=“canucktyuktuk”]Sounds awful to me. The math looks bad. Low wages, many hours. Of course, I also stay away from that age range unless they’re private and motivated. Maybe the classes would be really cool and rewarding in other ways, but I doubt it. That’s just me. Do you have much experience teaching large classes at that age range?

If I’m not mistaken, [color=darkred]you also need relevant teaching credentials to work in high schools[/color], no?

Ah hell, give it a try and see.

But I wouldn’t…[/quote]

Interesting. I am not sure. This is a private high school, so i would assume it falls under different laws.

Anyone have a factual answer?

Nah, HuaXing take anyone that will do it. It’s up a big hill.

Have you been to the school to see what it’s all about? Is it 40 kids in a class or 20? Is the school old and busted or new hotness? Are the Chinese teachers hotties or notties?

How can we help you make a good decision without the right information?

If you don’t have some reason to take the position other than money, then I’d walk away from it (ie a passion for teaching young adults.) If you threw out the thought of money and still wanted to work there, well… you probably wouldn’t be asking us.

I am currently teaching Junior High and Senior High students at a weekend cram school in Tianmu. The kids come from wealthy families and have basic to good EFL skills. I have to do zero discipline in the class as they are all good as gold. (I seriously wonder how much family wealth plays into good behavior in Taiwanese classrooms.)

Contrast the above with my weekday evening job at an elementary level buxiban in Banciao. 50% of the class time I am babysitting or reprimanding. The other 50% I am force feeding these hooligans English that they really don’t give a damn if they learn or not anyways.

If my Tianmu job is any sort of vision of what teaching older students is like, then I opt for teaching older kids anytime. Sure, teaching the younger kids pays more - but in the long run, is it worth more sanity wise to teach the older students? If it means going home with one less headache and feeling a bit more accomplished, then that trumps the hourly wages and convenient hours in my opinion.

Don’t get me wrong, money does matter. Like I said before, I am making 1/3 of what I could be making teaching older kids. I have been searching, interviewing, and right now the hours I need just are not out there for teaching the younger kids. For me this job pays. It pays three times what I am making now…so it can’t be all that bad.

Heck, what have I got lose? In the end it’s one more notch of experience in my belt and if I don’t like it I can always continue the search for greener pastures.

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. I will keep this updated with my progress in researching the school and the agency.

I was looking at the other replies, and well, you gotta think of it this way.

Moneywise, it aint that bad, you get 60,000 for a Mon-Fri job and have your weekends and evening free - that’s gotta be important if youre married like you say. And that maths - 60,000/190 = 300/hr, well, come on, who counts off time in math like that?

Try 60,000/88 (assuming 4 weeks in a month) which is 681 /hr, which is actually higher than the 650 Kojen offer starters… factor in the fact these ‘hours’ are actually shorter and you’ll find you would be one of the highest paid teachers per contact hour [ie 22x0.75 (equiv of 45 mins)= 16.5 hours (x 1/15,000) = 909 NT/ hr!!!] plus, you have 30 hours a week where you would have to plan/mark lessons/ plan privates/learn chinese/surf the web…

If you really cant live off that amount, then it leaves you ample time for private students/PT job

Add in the prestige of working in a private school, which can go on your resume to help you to get another HS job the following year, or cash in on the 30,000 (although I would doubt ever getting that money, I mean completing the contract and then getting that after completing a second contract?!?!?!?) and really I don’t know why you’re debating it

Simply put, if you can wake up, get to school on time, entertain yourself on off periods and do a good teaching job, you’re in the money, got good security and aren’t being stressed by buxiban management… but that depends on the management style of this particular agent…

Listen to tmwc. Listen mostly to him.

The kids at the school are pretty much a dream to teach.
Senior high kids can be a bit on the gormless/ feckless side however, they are very well behaved and will respect the fact that you are trying to teach them.

Is it a good deal? Like tmwc said, whats your ‘motivation?’

The office is corridor-esque but it has AC. You also get a laptop and internet free.

Good idea: Ask the people who work there now if they enjoy working there. Thats difficult, but if you do go to the school, ask them for their honest response.

I don’t think they take just anyone Buttercup.

OK, sorry. Pretty rude of me.

Let me start by saying, “I work for FIEC”. The main point here is do you want to do 3 hours in a kindy in the morning and then 3 hours in the afternoon at a bushiban, likely in different locations, and earn 60,000NT or less. Could you find more pay within the aforementioned scenario? Yes, definitely. It’s possible. Would that be an exception? Yes, I would say so. Then ask yourself, “How about current market value?” Is 60,000NT off the mark for what’s going around for 22 teaching hours per week? No! Definitely not. Next, ask yourself, "Is it a big sacrifice to be “on site” but have piece of mind in knowing that you’re a “real teacher” in a “real school?” You don’t have to worry about student registration. No parents will eyeball your teaching. You don’t have to bounce from one location to the next. You never have to play the clown in some corny marketing gimmick in order to secure more students. Arguably, the curriculum is likely more sound and organized than a fly by night bushiban or kindy. Of course, having to stay on site isn’t great if you’re not a 9 to 5er kind of person. The simple reason the school requests this point is because you are considered a “real teacher”, just like all the other Taiwanese teachers at the school. They have to go into school on time and can leave on time. Is that so unreasonable? May I suggest, rather than asking just anyone (because let’s be fair…many of you said you don’t like this age group, or you never worked in a high school before, etc.), why not ask FIEC to provide a list of teachers currently working at the school under the same conditions you’re being offered and see what they say? Wouldn’t that be a more fair and objective opinion than someone who says, “Wow, sounds like crap to me!” Yes, I work for FIEC, so my view will invariably be seen as bias. I accept that. However, an FIEC teacher you contact to ask what’s up would have first hand knowledge and thus be more helpful, I would assume. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That’s fine. What gets me sometimes is when stuff is said by people who don’t know any better. I think it’s fair to value TMWC’s advice (at least in this regard…ha!) because he’s speaking from first hand experience. After all, that’s what you’re really looking for here. Opinions welcomed but objectiveness is encouraged!

You won’t get it. Also, be aware that the FIEC people read these boards and advertise regularly on taiwanted.com.
quote]

I totally agree.
It’s a pretty competitive market out there. For that kind of money, you either have to be running around with different buxibans or teaching a lot of privates students at above 600Nt/hour rates minus travel time, or both.
To work at one place, mostly, for the kind of money, you would have to hold a teacher’s degree from your home country and/or be well respected as a teacher so that they are making a bid for your services.

But for that position, I do think the hours are quite long, even if half the time you are doing nothing. But, that is normal for a real school.

I’ve worked for FIEC many times, as a sub in different High School as well as various summer camps.
I know other people have had their problems with FIEC, but I wasn’t one of them.
James Dean is a straight up guy, he’ll pay what he promises, and on time without hassle.
True, I haven’t worked for them under a longterm contract, but I’d have no problem working for them again.

I don’t know these people, so I can’t comment on the situation at the school. What I can comment on is the math: Forget it.

You can’t count a full time job and a part time job the same way. The work you are required to do is very different, and the way it is calculated is very different.

Most buxiban’s pay for “teaching hours”. That means time in the class room rounded to the nearest hour. They do not pay for prep work, paper grading, or anything special you want to do with the kids.

Some places offer “office hours”, which is generally half your normal wage (what you can get office hour pay for is very restricted), but most places take a lot of work you do for granted. If you’re a smuck like I was at a couple schools and you do extra work to make your classes better it won’t really be appreciated when it comes to money time.

My current job is a full-time job. I work almost the same as I did when I was part time, and I’m making a little more money than I was. Plus I look forward to holidays a lot more this way.

The offer isn’t bad. It’s not the best, either, but it isn’t bad.

So did you go for the job or what?