Do you know how or even when to forgive?
Why should I, I mean we, we mean we, yah…
just how accepting art thou?
jesus lovest the higher calibre… .
D# rocks!
let the record show that I am pretty damn bad.
on the morrow I shall be forced to flee for that southbound train.
Git along!The hard part is to go from the idea that love and forgiveness are feelings that you have, and instead view them as conscious decisions that you can make.
what about pre-emptive forgiveness?
Is that like a pre-emptive strike? Forgive me lord for what I’m about to do?
Somehow that seems like a violation of the laws of karma.
I think that rather it is “I forgive you for anything you could possibly do to me in the future”.
Putting on my patristic persona:
A natural mistake is to view forgiveness as a kind of concession to others (“Well, I’m angry that you slept with the mailman, but I don’t want a divorce, so I guess I’ll just have to let it slide”) when it is the power and meaning behind everything–an aspect of the Greatest Commandment (love). Through sin we were expelled from paradise. Through forgiveness, we return.
For me, forgiving is only something I do for past transgressions, the future ones I would not forgive before they were committed and regretted.
The power of forgiveness and the love emaniating from the concept is what makes us human, if you are not able to forgive someone for behavior he or she genuinely regrets, you are a much worse human being for it.
Can you be like “I forgive you because I know you will rot in hell for all eternity for what you just did” and then smile sweetly? :fume:
Forgiveness of someone else is something you actively do for yourself–it needs have nothing to do with what another person feels–if they feel remorse or regret, or not. Yes, it’s easier to forgive when the other person wants you to, but ultimatly it has nothing to do with them.
Forgive–because to not forgive is only holding yourself hostage to the pain someone else has caused you.
I don’t hold grudges, however I separate between forgivinkg a person in my heart for misbehaviors and telling them that I have forgiven them.
The latter is only done if they realize that they have acted wrongly.
if you forgive them, then WILL they burn in hell?
i thought that was partly the point.
my catholic childhood was a bit light on the policy and protocol of forgiveness between people, other than that the forgiveness God gives means that you WON’T be spending eternity in Hell. it was big on guilt, though: no forgiveness needed for the guilt trip.
my atheist present is a bit sceptical of the ‘afterlife’ effects of forgiveness, other than as a way of reconciliation between two people: the offender and the offended. which is not a bad thing, but if the two never meet again it has absolutely no effect on the forgiven, only the forgiver (which is why road rage should never be forgiven). 
Maybe forgiveness is in part realizing that we are all human and make mistakes.
if you forgive them, then WILL they burn in hell?
i thought that was partly the point.
my catholic childhood was a bit light on the policy and protocol of forgiveness between people, other than that the forgiveness God gives means that you WON’T be spending eternity in Hell. it was big on guilt, though: no forgiveness needed for the guilt trip.
my atheist present is a bit sceptical of the ‘afterlife’ effects of forgiveness, other than as a way of reconciliation between two people: the offender and the offended. which is not a bad thing, but if the two never meet again it has absolutely no effect on the forgiven, only the forgiver (which is why road rage should never be forgiven). [/quote]
I thought we were supposed to forgive for 2 reasons
Our own mental well being
So God could blast them later when he does his judgement day thing - would be mean for them to be punished twice after all
That’s about all it is, aside from looking at a person’s background and thinking “poor bastard, no wonder he acts like such an asshole”.
People just want to live in a world where people are not consciously trying to do them harm, in a world where they receive some affection. That’s why a healthy person can forgive almost anything, given that the apology is sincere enough. It is in his best interest to forgive.
I saw a situation recently where the “perpetrator” of a vile crime asked the “victim” for an “apology” for something that happened directly as a result of the crime. Could a person ever forgive that do you think, or are some things really just too much?
It might as well be mentioned too that forgiveness is “for” the forgiver. By forgiving he unburdens himself of resentment and hate. Allows for some possibility of serenity and happiness in his life.
[quote=“housecat”]Forgiveness of someone else is something you actively do for yourself–it needs have nothing to do with what another person feels–if they feel remorse or regret, or not. Yes, it’s easier to forgive when the other person wants you to, but ultimatly it has nothing to do with them.
Forgive–because to not forgive is only holding yourself hostage to the pain someone else has caused you.[/quote]
I fully second this.
And forgiveness doesn’t mean that you can go back to the way thing were. If your closest friend has wronged you profoundly, over time you can find ways to forgive her, but that doesn’t mean you will want to go back to being best friends with her. You might have learned that this is no longer the person you want to be so close to.
It’s the hardest to forgive those who you sill “have to” be close to. Family for example.
Maybe in a Godless world forgiveness is in the forgiver’s best interest. By forgiving someone you don’t waste time fuming over their fucktardery and can concentrate on more important things.
Forgiving is easy, right after Revenge. 