Bob, you do realize there are already some posters who make a living out of doing just that, right? And that for Forumosa to do such would be undercutting those Forumosans and their jobs? Plus companies would inevitably abuse that facility and we would lose. After all, if you could get people to do the editing and proofing for free on a forum, why would you want to pay someone to do it?
I’ll be damned if I will log on to forumosa just so I can answer, “How do you say this…in English?” Or the very pleassant “Hi! My name is Apple and I want to be your friend!”
Hell on Earth is [color=red]The forumosa.com on-line English school[/color].
Well, while I’m totally against setting up a Learning English forum on f.com, setting up a totally separate “forumosa learners” site (or similar…naturally we’d need a catchier name) might be lucrative. Those who are willing to could act as mods – both for content and at times for language. I don’t know of a moderated BBS that talks ABOUT Taiwan, which might be an attraction for many learners of English. You would have to be careful about being flooded with “how do you say X in English” posts that have a mysterious relationship to the homework assignment being done by the poster that day (this was a major problem on tw.bbs.lang.eng or whatever that Usenet site was – I used to post there a lot), but with a modded system it would at least be possible to present a quality site without a lot of inaccurate “answers” being accepted as good. I think your ad revenue might be an option with such a site as well, and of course links to classifieds, many banner ads pointing folks toward the appropriate resources of forumosa.com, etc. would be possible.
Of course, such a site would lack the native speaker interaction that f.com has. This would be good and bad – the learners would not benefit from an authentic model, but then again they would not be confused out of their minds by it either. (Ever stopped in at a genuine Chinese-language bbs? Sometimes it is a wonderment, even if your Chinese is “good”. 
)
If someone could come up with a solid business plan linking a perceived “freebie” site with such a forum with a way to wring cash out of the users and/or sponsors, that might be interesting. Then cross-link and tie in. At least that’s my take. But keep the learners off f.com as a specific forum; that is not what its primary purpose is. Doesn’t matter whether it’s a separate forum “you don’t have to look at”; it’s going to affect overall traffic and cross-posting.
Money complicates everything and the lack of it complicates it even more. With that I’ll agree entirely. However if this was done properly it wouldn’t necessarily take work away from anyone. Imagine for example that there was a business forum that you needed to pay to join (unless you were, like you and I of course, upstanding members of the venerable forumosa community). Imagine further that clients were allowed only a certain number of postings before they were required to pay again. This way forumosa would gets it’s cut and those of us looking for work could duke it out to to see who could best serve the client.
Most people who need this kind of work done need someone who is willing to invest a bit of time familiarizing themselves with the business and who can at times be trusted with sometimes sensitive information. They wouldn’t put their documents out there for the world to see for too long. Particularly if they were charged for the priveledge.
I hear you there. Perhaps Ironlady’s idea of a new “site” linked to this one would be better.
Anyway there must be a lot of people out there who would be willing to pay a nominal sum to check their spelling, wording, grammar… before investing huge amounts of money, for example in expensive advertising that makes them look ridiculous. And there must also be a lot that are looking for steady help with business letters. I’m fairly certain of this because a small trickle of this kind of work has always landed in my lap despite my never looking for it and despite my demonstrated lack of talent for it. Still though I find myself at times imagining what it would be like to have a boat load of this kind of work that I could do from any place that had internet access. Bali is nice this time of year… And who knows maybe we could even put a small dent in the amount of bad English in the world.
I like Forumosa the way it is: a place for Expats and those whose English is good enough to communicate with them. I do not think it is suitable for English learners, nor should it be made more suitable for them. While I admire the generosity behind the notion of a proposed learners’ forum, I think this site serves a very specific group of people-- the international community-- and not local EFL students. There are tons of resources for them already and precious few that serve our needs exclusively. As it stands, this site serves our needs well and that is what it should do. If it tries to appeal to every group of people, it will end up pleasing no one. One need only look at ICRT to see what happens when international community resources become yet another enterprise aimed at the local community (or some feeble attempt at trying to please both communities).
Generosity!
Generosity! [/quote]
I guess I’m referring to the inclusion sentiment expressed by a few or, at least, the desire not to exclude anyone. I think this site is necessarily exclusive to a degree-- and that is the way it should stay, IMO.
Me too. But if there was some way that it could make some money connecting “language professionals” with clients and become part of the larger community in Taiwan at the same time (and all without sacrificing the forums over to hords of ESL students) that would be fantastic as well…
Ironlady came up with the best plan it seems. Another site linked to this one or perhaps “through” this one would allow the forumosa’s growing presence to be capitalized upon without upsetting the current balance too much.
[quote=“bob”]Me too. But if there was some way that it could make some money connecting “language professionals” with clients and become part of the larger community in Taiwan at the same time and all without sacrificing the forums over to hords of ESL students that would be fantastic as well…
Ironlady came up with the best plan it seems. Another site linked to this one or perhaps “through” this one would allow the forumosa’s growing presence to be capitalized upon without upsetting the current balance too much.[/quote]
The old expression goes “money isn’t everything.” It’ll be the the thin end of the wedge-- and the end of this site as we know it-- if Forumosa gets associated with English learning in any way. Right now this site is ours because it has little to offer learners. It is known as the foreigners site, at least that is what I gathered from an article about this site in the local press, a link to which was posted here a while back. It would be indeed ironic if the site’s admin-- who circulated a petition about ICRT’s repudiation of it’s foreign audience-- turned around and changed this site into an ICRT clone.
Absolutely 100% agreed. I guess a few of us are just wondering if there isn’t some way to get the best of both worlds. As I’m kind of a neophyte in the internet world I’ll bow out of this convo for a bit and let the elders talk…
Absolutely 100% agreed. I guess a few of us are just wondering if there isn’t some way to get the best of both worlds. As I’m kind of a neophyte in the internet world I’ll bow out of this convo for a bit and let the elders talk…[/quote]
Ok, Bob. Great discussion, btw. 
I see things from the standpoint of a user of this site. I come to this site because I identify with it and its users in some way. This site is a good resource for expats; that’s why so many flock here. I understand the need/want to make money as well. I think that economic activity is a great idea and hopefully wil reward those who’ve put a lot into this site. However, branding, brand recognition and what associations people make with regards to a brand are important to consider. Forumosa is developing as a brand very quickly. For the moment at least, it is a brand primarily associated with foreigners in Taiwan. That is what, IMO, gives this site its unique character. “Capitalizing” on the brand to tap into the EFL learner market is a possibilty as well, especially if the Forumosa brand becomes widely known among locals. However, associating the Forumosa name with English learning will fundamentally and irreversibly change the character of this place, whether or not a sister site is created to house the learning forums. Learners almost certainly will spill over into the main site, changing the dynamic of it. I’m of the view that, if there is a need or a desire to create English learner forums, they should be housed on a separate site with a completely separate name-- with no association to this site at all. That way the fluent English and expat culture aspects of this place can be maintained.
[quote=“Durins Bane”]I’ll be damned if I will log on to forumosa just so I can answer, “How do you say this…in English?” Or the very pleassant “Hi! My name is Apple and I want to be your friend!”
Hell on Earth is [color=red]The forumosa.com on-line English school[/color].[/quote]
Ahhhh, that’s what I wanted to say.
Why on earth was I trying to be nice when all I needed was a set of steel… again, I want to be nice…HELP ME!
I will not answer anyone posting “How do you say this… in English?”
Apple, well… did she post a photo?
Thanks Toasty. The elders must be off moose hunting or something…
Anywho as I was riding my bike back from Blockbusters it occured to me that we could avoid the problems associated with a Learner’s Forum (I think that was the original idea) by not having one basically, and having a Business Forum instead. Target business people who generally: 1) Have money. 2) Have a job that needs doing. 3) DON’T have time to participate in a lot of online discussions or to ask a lot of dumb questions. Who most likely don’t even have time to read the forums.
With a business forum we could establish a potentialy lucrative link to the larger community while maintaining the quality of the writing and we could do that without over-burdening the moderators.
Toasty, I think you’re missing the point.
This is an expat site, and as such it tends to attract Taiwanese looking for English practise or help with their homework or other things. Some of those people contribute to the site, a great many are just nuisances.
As the site grows and becomes better-known, and as we promote the new classifieds section, then the numbers will increase.
I’m not talking about adding another service just to attract Taiwanese. I’m talking about penning them out of the way so that they don’t spoil the site. If there is a ‘forumosa lite’ then hopefully the ones who appear on the main site will be the ones who have something meaningful to say, and the rest can ask their questions well away from Bassman.
As Maoman said, there isn’t a need for it yet. We can build it when the need arises. It’s just a discussion-topic at the moment.
Yeah! Working for free is not a good idea, and no-one wants this site to become an extension of the working day. But if forumosa is to genuinely serve the ex-pat community it has to facilitate the doing of business - it has to link paying customers with service providers who need the money. You can’t do that without having English-learners around the place. How to deal with them without becoming labelled ‘unfriendly’?
If the idea is to “link paying customers with service providers,” why limit the reach of extensions and additions only to those who teach English? What about the rest of us? Where is the line drawn?
Hmm… penning them up, sounds good. I’ll get me cattle prod… arrrrrgh. Ye grammar be poor… walk the plank… zap zap. What ye mean, “I is going to the school?” ZAP ZAP… Ye call me “Big Nose” again and I’ll have you hung, drawn, and quartered…
Look, it’s close enough to midnight to be Pirate time
Yes, as far as “linking learners with expats”…how far does the “serving the expat community” thing go, anyway? There are other sites to serve expats with teaching jobs. Forumosa doesn’t necessary have to do that – and most particularly not by making direct three links between the users and the teachers. Having job ads on here is circus enough at times, and that’s just dealing with employers.
I get queasy just thinking about hordes of local students ruining, yes ruining, this site with drivel.
A linked site is just one step closer to a full scale invasion.
But if the powers that be want to set up some sort of student site then I would be very happy to volunteer Bassman’s and jdsmith’s time to help answer any questions that arise on the site. 
[quote=“Durins Bane”]I get queasy just thinking about hordes of local students ruining, yes ruining, this site with drivel.
A linked site is just one step closer to a full scale invasion.
But if the powers that be want to set up some sort of student site then I would be very happy to volunteer Bassman’s and jdsmith’s time to help answer any questions that arise on the site. [/quote]
Arrrrrrr, it be mutiny, mutiny, I say. You’re going to be findin’ me peg leg in a very nasty place in one of your body orifice’s … arrrrrrrrr. 