France's corrupt dealings with Saddam

Well, all that talk about Big Shawna and her Bush has got me going now, really it has.

Nice to know you have friends; lots of people with blind spots the size of yours tend to shed friends over time - in my experience. I think it’s related to constantly having these friends use that blind spot to shield from your view the hard things they sometimes throw at you, those pesky flying objects that you somehow never see before they whop you upside the head.

You didn’t ask, but hey, it’s a public forum. Here’s what makes sense to me. If you think digging a ditch - a firewall of sorts - is good for your family (despite warnings from almost all your good friends that, knowing as well as they do your historically peripatetic foreign policy, the long-term benefit of digging that ditch doesn’t even outweigh the short- to mid-term cost of sharply increased risk of putting you and yours in some significant, additional danger) yet still you find yourself feeling it’s important to have at least a minimum of support in your labor, then you probably want your friends to help dig, natch. And if they won’t help, then at a minimum you want them to stand out of the way and not throw clods at you while you dig alone.

If this is the case, then I would recommend not ridiculing, denigrating, or otherwise publicly casting dispersions on them unmercifully - or at least wait until you’re both in the ditch hip-deep or so to begin.

This is very important!

That way, see, when you do criticize, it’s in their own best interest to cooperate fully with what are now fully-shared ends. Even if they continue to throw stuff at you, even while you’re both deep in that ditch - stuff you can’t see because of that drat blind spot - you know you’ll eventually need their help; after all, even though they’re your friends, they’re still bastards and they’ll do stupid things like that. Not only that, but what better time to fundamentally change your relationship than when you’re both standing chest-deep in forming the ditch? They throw a clod, you pop 'em one, they see the error of their ways, everybody plays nice, the ditch is built pronto, the friendship thrives. Common sense (diplomacy?), no?

You already knew going in that they’re thin-skinned bastards, though, so no biggie, right? Keep your eye on the prize - a fully functional ditch! Remember, you have to just suck it up a bit and weigh what’s really important to you: the ditch or what amounts to little more than minor head pain.

If you decide that ridding yourself of the head pain is more important than digging that ditch, then don’t complain when your friends won’t play along and help you with your stupid ditch. We both know they’ll continue to throw clods anyway, that’s just the way they are. And this is, after all, a relationship you’re vested in, one the bridge to which you’d like to keep whole. Just in case. You never know.

Second, if you choose to go ahead and dig that ditch alone (screw the Friends! Cheese-eating surrender monkey bastards!), when you get all the way in and your head is now below ground-level and you begin to worry that the damn walls might just collapse on you, stop digging.

To stop digging ought to be like, job 1 at that point.

Just saying.

And, weren’t those ‘Freedom fries’ you ate?

$0.02

Flike:

Cute but the fact remains that like Democrats the French I was speaking to were very short of facts and did not want to hear anything about them. They were right and I was asked to accept their arguments because “everyone knows this.” I said I did not and challenged them to come up with the goods and they could not. Don’t worry about me shedding any friends. I have quite a few and can be quite diplomatic in my speech. The reason I have posted this is to show the level of work that we (the Republicans) have to do to get our message out. Until they spoke to me about this, they have never ever heard of such ideas or arguments. To me, that shows that the media is NOT doing its job. If close to 50% of Americans think like I do, then why is this not getting through to the French and others?

Arrogance that surpasses even Americans? Cultural superiority complex? Humiliation that they had to be saved twice by America and Britain in the past century, their position as a world power continues to diminsh with French as the language of diplomacy having been replaced entirely by English, etc. Lots of reasons for them to close their eyes and ears and bury their heads in the sand.

Hopefully one day the rest of the world community will see French government for what it really is … far left-wing Socialist fanatics with an extremely selfish and arrogant world view. Yes, it’s the government that is doing this for the most part, but France is a democracy (for now), and so the people must take responsibility for who they elect and it doesn’t look as though Chirac and his radical left-wing party will be leaving power any time soon.

I think you’re misunderstanding Chirac here. If anything he is right wing. He is a French nationalist who thinks only about france and his own standing. He really couldn’t give a shit about left wing politics. They are used only when they fit the bill, which is getting him back in power and getting money to his cronies. Chirac is about as socialist as Hitler (though I am not trying to equate the two. Chirac is a dick, no question about it, but he ain’t no Adolf. That would be Jean-Marie Le Pen)

Also you might want to check out the structure of the French government. Chirac has recently co-habited with the socialist party head by Jospin as the prime minister, so in some ways his party has been ‘out of power’ realtively recently.

Oh how terrible you mean to tell me the French sold weapons to an unstable regime or Dictator, only then to have it blow up in their faces?
Man oh man I feel so sorry for any Government or Multinational company that makes profits from selling arms.
Good thing We would never do that

:wink:

Actually cleverly named poster:

We do not. We are not selling weapons to dangerous regimes nor have we except under the most unique of circumstances. Look around at the world’s worst regimes and do a check. Is the US selling weapons to

Iran
North Korea
Syria
Libya
Sudan
Somalia
the Previous Iraq
the Previous Taliban

Or are we encouraging arms races by selling weapons to China? or attempting to destabilize regions by selling fighter jets to Venezuela? Now why the hell does Venezuela need fighter jets? This will only encourage Brazil and Colombia to buy them and perhaps if those two nations do then Peru and Ecuador. The fact is that there has been no arms race in Latin America. There used to be but because they were all under the American security umbrella they stopped wasting their money on these grandiose weapons systems and they were able to use that money for development.

Please note that the French are cooperating and helping the Americans in many areas just not Iraq…

Syria is an area along with Afghanistan and terrorism where the French have been VERY helpful. So, in all fairness, let us thank the French for their support and recognize that sometimes they are willing to be very helpful and we need all the help like this that we can get.

nypost.com/postopinion/opedc … rookes.htm

Oh dear. Poor France… Quel domage!

[quote]Morose commentaries on declining French power abound, in the press, in political books and as chatter in ministerial corridors. Meanwhile, a public long supportive of European integration is becoming less trusting of Brussels, while the French political class is fighting over the European constitution, the risk of jobs moving east, and the possible entry of Turkey. Add to that recent discordant outbursts with European partners over issues ranging from Iraq to industrial policy, and France is looking increasingly isolated. Nicolas Bavarez, who shook the intellectual establishment last year with his book “France in Free Fall,” says the situation has worsened in the past 12 months. “France is a country in deep crisis, with doubts about its identity and its place in the world,” Bavarez said in a recent interview.

Today it is the Atlanticists in Europe, with their Anglo-Saxon free enterprise and their acceptance of America’s predominance, who have triumphed, he said. Britain, long the odd one out in Europe, has inspired many of the new members, including the Czech Republic, Slovakia and the Baltic states, with its economic system and loyalty to the United States. “It’s true that our influence in Brussels has decreased,” V

cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/11 … index.html

Just when I thought Chirac couldn’t get any more pig-headed or hypocritical, he pulls these ridiculous comments out of his ass at a “chat” with Oxford University students on his trip to the UK. While he vehemently opposes “imperialism” and the fear of stirring up anti-colonialism anger again, he seems to forget what is happening in his own “quagmire” in the Ivory Coast, or that France still maintains a tight leash on its old colonial possessions, or that not that long ago France was involved in a bitter, bloody war in Algeria that it lost.

Yeah, you gotta watch out for these treacherous French. When Chirac visited the White House, he stole all the silverware.

And have you seen the prices they charge at Fnac Bookstore?

Would you buy a used car from a Frenchman?

That’s it for me. I’m not even gonna eat French fries anymore.

cheers,
DB

And here’s the insulting Fwench photo caption of the day for our British cousins. And it’s real!
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2& … upq_photo0

In fairness, when did a bunch of French tourists get a reputation for drunken loutish behavior like the Brits? Thank God we have Britain for an ally but sometimes this behavior by these yobs or hooligans goes a bit too far. Hell, even the Germans have never done that abroad have they? Good thing too given their centuries of violent oppression of other groups and their propensity to kill everyone and anyone who stood in their way. Who knows maybe the Germans are finally becoming civilized? We can hope.

At least the Germans recently worked hard with the US to come up with a deal to help out Iraq by writing off 80% of its foreign debt over the next few years which would greatly help in the pace of reconstruction and reestablishing the Iraqi economy … and they’ve had a significant number of troops in Afghanistan. While the Germans have been trying to restore their ties with the US (somewhat), the French have been trying their hardest to make things worse. I’m afraid things won’t change until Chirac is out of office.

Or the German Army decides to spend an extended vacation in Paris. :smiling_imp:

Well, some Englishman said Germans were more funny in the old days, when they laid whole Europe in ruins - than today, when they are trying to make jokes. So being German I will restrain myself from making a funny response.

Today is the birthday of Charles De Gaulle. Happy Birthday, Chuck.

“We shall stun you with our ingratitude.” - De Gaulle to Churchill, regarding the Anglo-American effort to liberate Fwance

winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pag … m?pageid=1

French military history in a nutshell (in jest of course )

  • Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

  • Hundred Years War - Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; “France’s armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman.”

  • Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

  • Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

  • Thirty Years War - France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

  • War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

  • The Dutch War - Tied

  • War of the Augsburg League/King William’s War/French and Indian War - Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

  • War of the Spanish Succession - Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

  • American Revolution - In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as “de Gaulle Syndrome”, and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; “France only wins when America does most of the fighting.”

  • French Revolution - Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

  • The Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

  • The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France’s ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

  • World War I - Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it’s like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn’t call her “Fraulein.” Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

  • World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

  • War in Indochina - Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu

  • Algerian Rebellion - Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; “We can always beat the French.” This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

  • War on Terrorism - France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald’s.

French firing on crowd in Cote d’Ivoire, from Swiss TV

real.xobix.ch/ramgen/tsr/tj/2004 … :13:10.167

real.xobix.ch/ramgen/tsr/tj/2004 … :13:10.167

I hate to say it but I again sympathize completely with the French and their predicament in the Cote d’Ivoire. I only hope that so many of the mindless America bashing left in Europe and the States will now take pause to realize that these things happen during peace keeping operations. The alternative is often not “peace” but violence akin to the massacre of 11,000 Muslim men and boys while Dutch peacekeeping forces did nothing. Again, my sympathy is entirely with the French soldiers but I hope this is a wake up call for the mindless America bashers.

Amazing. Fred was right about the French:

msnbc.msn.com/id/6672643/