Frank Hsieh's chances in 2008

How are Frank Hsieh’s chances for winning the presidency in 2008? Is he a man of integrity worthy enough to challenge Ma Ying-jeou?

Even DPP supporters call Ma a perfect father, a perfect son, and a perfect husband.

During the 1990’s, Lee Tenghui relieved Ma of his duties as Justice Minister because Ma was too effective against corruption in the KMT.

Does Hsieh have an equally clean record? And how will the Kaohsiung MRT scandal affect Hsieh’s integrity image?

When Frank Hsieh ran against Wu Den-yih in 1998 for the Kaohsiung mayoral race, Hsieh’s campaign helpers repeatedly broadcasted taped recordings of Wu saying “I love you, I love you” to his mistress.

Kaoshiung

Foreign workers scandal

Dead in the water

At the moments Hsieh’s chances of even getting the DPP candidacy are looking pretty shaky.

Not a snowballs chance in hell. :smiling_imp: He is not international minded, the worker’s riot damaged his image, he keeps company with a lot of DPP xenophobes, and he has done a piss-weak job as Premier. Frank Hsieh was catapulted to a top government post thanks to his achievements in local government. However, being a mayor in the South is not the same as being a national leader. Hsieh is learning this the hard way. Some of his opinions and comments have shown him to be the amateur he really is:

www.taipeitimes.com/News/ front/archives/2005/07/07/2003262495

However, I hear the Philippine people are looking for a replacement for Arroyo.

Frank “Ferdinand Marcos Shirt” Hsieh

[quote=“Chewycorns”]Not a snowballs chance in hell. :smiling_imp:
[/quote]

I agree with this. He made a strategic blunder by allowing himself to be appointed premier. It’s a terrible job-you get all of the blame and none of the credit.

Evidence please.

[quote] the worker’s riot damaged his image,
[/quote]

True. The fallout from it even more.

Like whom?

[snip]

[quote]However, being a mayor in the South is not the same as being a national leader. Hsieh is learning this the hard way. Some of his opinions and comments have shown him to be the amateur he really is:

www.taipeitimes.com/News/ front/archives/2005/07/07/2003262495[/quote]

50629191533.jpeg[/img][/quote]

Hsieh is much more sophisticated than you are giving him credit for. He is actually a very intense, highly intelligent lawyer, by he’s far too smart to show that in public. He’s media savvy and he knows that he has to reach voters all over Taiwan in ways that they can relate to. That’s why he cultivates his ‘aw shucks’ small town demeanor. His big problem, besides being premier, is that Su Zhenchang is even better at this game.

Apart from Hsieh or Su, who else in the DPP has anywhere near a high enough presence to be in the running for 2008?
Seems to me they only have Hsieh or Su and therefore, no chance whatsoever of keeping the presidency. Feiren, do you really think Hsieh can show he has what it takes in just two years to keep Ma out of the Big Hoose? Especially since the KMT looks as if it’s going to clean up in December?

I’m feeling very pessimistic about the DPP’s chances in 2008. Even if things were going well, I think Hsieh will have trouble beating Ma. And things are going horribly. Of the two, I actually think Su is the stronger candidate. He won elections in the north and the south and did a great job in Taipei County. He’s an excellent speaker and gives working people the impression that he’s on their side. I still don’t think he can beat Ma.

But two years is a long time, and the KMT could split or do something incredibly stupid (like pass the “Peace Act”).

Anyone who believes that Kaoushung could be awarded the Olympics definitely does not have an international mindset. OR was he pandering to local voters? :unamused: Hsieh is not international or PR-saavy compared with Ma and given people’s current disgust with the DPP’s corruption, a German shephard could run against Hsieh and win.

Chen’s young advisors. Lot’s of them have xenophobic tendancies. PM me if you want personal examples. :smiling_imp:

In my opinion, the DPP still has a few strong candidates it could run against Ma. However, they would have to prove they are different from the old guard. That is why many people were disappointed that the “New DPP” movement died out so quickly.

Personally, I think Taiwan’s youngest ambassador abroad would make an ideal candidate for the DPP. He is smart, international, well-educated, bilingual in a few languages, can work with people of all political persuasions, and is a good administrator. A true renaissance man. In other words, he is the opposite of what Frank and many in the Presidential Office are.

If the DPP nominates a corrupt DPP crony of Chens or one of the old guard lawyers like Hsieh, Ma will take them to the cleaners.

Annette for President! :yay:

Annette for President! :yay:[/quote]
Of course, how could I forget! :laughing:

Hsieh doesn’t seriously think that Taiwan is going to get the Olympics. The point is to look like you are trying and also get the chance to paint nay-sayers as people who badmouth Taiwan all the time. Taiwanese LOVE Taiwan, and they don’t like hearing bad things about it. This is just smart politics.

I’m PMing you about your examples. Still, it’d be nice to hear some public xenophobic statements. It’s the KMT, and especially the Ma camp, that we hear the ‘We Chinese’ crap all the time.

Really? Most of Taipei County seems rather awful to me, and didn’t improve during Su’s reign at all. If anything, it got worse. Filthy, crowded, unmanaged, chaotic, a hotbed of gangsterism and the worst traffic conditions in the area, it seems the worst of both worlds to me (with the exception of Bitan, of course).

Two words: [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/good-news-for-kaohsiung-frank-hsieh-is-leaving/15226/4 Qili[/url].

The odd thing is that no one seems to care much about the Song Qili. Frankly, Franks New Agey side is a big turn off for me, but the voters don’t seem to mind.

Poagao: I agree that the quality of life is horrible in Taipei County. But lots of development was done–Banciao has been transformed and lots of new roads. The voters liked him, and that’s what counts.

That sounds like Hoklo chauvinism in my opinion! Everyone else are just outsiders, right? :smiling_imp: A political party should be open to internal criticism and should be welcoming of diversity. The DPP’s problem with foreign migrants, corruption, and its xenophobic policies towards foreigners will not win too many friends in the international community. You don’t need to PM me for the details. I’ve mentioned them before. A DPP person tied to the Presidential Office basically told me “You’re in Taiwan. You have to do things the Taiwanese way.” I was excluded from every single meeting as soon as the new Presidential Office blokes took over a few key positions in 2005. They don’t want foreigners of any stripe giving them opinions, and they treated me very unprofessionally. Hsieh may not be a racist, but he surely hasn’t been vocal about the nasty elements within the party. Ma was. As justice minister, he cleaned out some bad elements within the KMT. Hsieh gave city contracts to his cronies in the South during his tenure as mayor. He is a typical grassroots DPP lawyer who has climbed out of the bog and met a lot of shady characters in the process. Ma is simply a better politician and a more international candidate. The foreign community should support him in a Ma vs. Hsieh race.

Liking your country is not at all the same thing as xenophobia. In Taiwan’s case, it’s especially important because the Taiwanese were told for so long by the KMT that they were crap.

So you were unhappy working for a Taiwanese government agency. Who isn’t? They don’t hire foreigners to give them opinions, they hire foreigners to shut up and proofread the documents they are given. See the foreign pet over in the corner. Of course you were not invited to meetings–you weren’t a decision maker.

And I submit that beneath the smiling exterior and the fluent English Chairman Ma is flaming Chinese nationalist who not only actually believes in Confucianism, but also happily served Chiang Ching-kuo and his regime. You will find out who the real xenophobe is when his dream of unification is realized.

You’re wrong here. From 2002 to 2005, when the DPP relied on LTH people and KMT administrators, I provided policy opinions on a variety of issues and, yes, I was asked for these opinions and was included in every single departmental meeting for 2.5 years. This changed the minute Presidential Office cronies, with virtually no background in the field in question, entered the equation. They “politicized” what before was a pretty neutral organization and have made “one fuck up after another.” :unamused: They excluded me from the very beginning and shocked me with their comments advocating cultural relativism. Make no mistake about it, I could sense a “seething” distrust of foreigners coming from Chen’s Tainan cronies and “young boy scouts.” In their eyes, if you aren’t Hoklo, you’re nothing.

:smiling_imp: Don’t you think this is the reason the DPP has trouble making friends in the international media and has to pay a US firm US$ 2 million/year for PR. Don’t you think it is this type of thinking that is driving foreign businesspeople away in hordes, despite Taiwan’s push for internationalization and to become a research and development corridor?

So did LTH. Let’s concenentrate on the here and now instead of resorting to the “victim” mentality and bringing up events from 20 and 30 years ago. I am not KMT, nor am I sympathetic to the “reunificationist wing” of the party. I believe Ma has only mentioned reunification in a “Democratic China” and that it won’t be decided by the current generation in power (meaning baby boom generation).

I admire professional and seasoned administrators, and above all, I admire LOYALTY. My own opinion of DPP administrators, aftering working with Presidential office cronies, is VERY LOW. Compared with international KMT people with plenty of international experience and education, these people are clueless, stupid, and very racist towards foreigners. Above all, they are not very fair, which is ironic considering their struggle against authoritarianism before democratization.

If the DPP treats someone with my background and experience like this, imagine how they treat a Filipino or Indonesian worker. In my opinion, these people have pissed on LTH’s grand legacy.

[quote] In my opinion, these people have pissed on LTH’s grand legacy.[/quote] :banana:

Okay maybe you had some pleasant experience’s under LTH stewardship of Taiwan. But make no mistake, LTH is the one pissing on his own legacy.

As for Hsieh, unless he pulls off a miracle I don’t see much chance of him making it in 2008. The KMT is going to bring up the whole MRT scandal which will just sink his platform.

Evidence please.

i thought it was common knowledge Ma was a ‘spy’ at uni in the US, reporting anti-KMT sentiment back home??

given the anti-everything not pro mainland being said here who cares about feirens comments on ma. the kmt has never needed evidence to sink its opponents

Edit: shit… and i said to myself “dont go back into the Taiwan Politics forum”… its full of confrontation :loco: