Fred Smith thanks God for NYC's Republican Mayors

Politics International Politics
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[quote=“fred smith”]Twocs:

You and you alone can look to your glorious computer system as the reason why New York City is safer today. Nice try. Try telling that to anyone who LIVES in or VISITS the city regularly. These efforts to discount Giuliani’s justifiably celebrated record are pathetic. Even with this computer system, the enforcement still must be in place and we had 20 years of liberal, feel-good, poor childhood, bad upbringing kind of excuses to bring the city to its knees. I suppose we will just have to put Giuliani’s success to some random event just like Libya’s volte face regarding wmds was some kind of miraculous coincidence after 30 years of “negotiations.” :unamused:[/quote]

It is false for you to say that I am the only one who is aware that New York has a state of the art computer statistics system. I didn’t make the information about COMPSTAT. It’s from Wikipedia like I earlier said. If you asked the New York Police Department, wouldn’t it also think that COMPSTAT was a good thing? Obviously. They went into an indepth discussion of COMPSTAT on their website. Many police departments around the world are following New York’s lead because it allows the police the strength to fight crime when and where it happens.

You don’t get re-elected as mayor if you’re unpopular. Obviously the man did do something that people respected him for. But I dispute whether he was the one responsible for the decrease in crime. I haven’t heard much from you about Giuliani’s record except that crime figures are down, and you trumpeting Republicans and Gestapo police policies because of that. When you start your thread disparaging Democrats and every chance you claim that Democrats are this or that, how can you expect to get much support in your efforts?

Giulianiis retired now. He can’t run for Mayor of New York because he has already served two terms, he won’t run for the Senate because he has prostate cancer, and he divorced his wife of 16 years. He aggressivily asserts that his tough policies are the ones that made New York a safe place, despite scientific evidence to the contrary. What is more:

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Right Twocs:

You have ONE article that shows that the computer is completely responsible for this drop in crime. Bully for Wikepedia. Then, why not check to see if say the same computer system is in use in oh say Los Angeles and see what is going on with crime figures there or what about Detroit? or what about Philadelphia? or what about DC? Shall we compare?

Wanna?

As to the other comments, I will just let you keep your two cs on those.

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[quote=“fred smith”]Right Twocs:

You have ONE article that shows that the computer is completely responsible for this drop in crime. Bully for Wikepedia. Then, why not check to see if say the same computer system is in use in oh say Los Angeles and see what is going on with crime figures there or what about Detroit? or what about Philadelphia? or what about DC? Shall we compare?

Wanna?

As to the other comments, I will just let you keep your two cs on those.[/quote]

In August 2001, the Giuliani administration announced the Citywide Accountability Program which asked all city agencies to develop programs that implement the essential elements of Compstat.

Giuliani himself believed that Compstat was a powerful tool. http://www.gothamgazette.com/print/432

You don’t care to address the fact that you have lied? It is a careless manner of discussion that you participate in.

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Twocs:

How have I lied? Where have I lied? I do not doubt that the computer system was one tool but without the will to use it and to reform the way crime prevention measures were being implemented, I do not think that anything would have brought about the resulting drop in crime, certainly not just a computer system. I continue to give primary credit where credit is due: Rudy Giuliani and his new approach to stopping and preventing crime.

As to other cities such as LA, Detroit, DC, St. Louis, Boston and Philadelphia, surely they have computer systems too. No? What’s going on in those cities?

Anyway, I know what it is that you are essentially trying to do, and have fun with but by yourself. Unless you have anything concrete on computer systems in these other cities and how this has or has not helped “reduce crime” then I am not really interested in batting this issue back and forth with you. Let’s agree to disagree. You credit the computer system, I credit Rudy Giuliani. Fair?

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[quote=“fred smith”]Twocs:

How have I lied? Where have I lied? I do not doubt that the computer system was one tool but without the will to use it and to reform the way crime prevention measures were being implemented, I do not think that anything would have brought about the resulting drop in crime, certainly not just a computer system. I continue to give primary credit where credit is due: Rudy Giuliani and his new approach to stopping and preventing crime.

As to other cities such as LA, Detroit, DC, St. Louis, Boston and Philadelphia, surely they have computer systems too. No? What’s going on in those cities?

Anyway, I know what it is that you are essentially trying to do, and have fun with but by yourself. Unless you have anything concrete on computer systems in these other cities and how this has or has not helped “reduce crime” then I am not really interested in batting this issue back and forth with you. Let’s agree to disagree. You credit the computer system, I credit Rudy Giuliani. Fair?[/quote]

You said “You and you alone can look to your glorious computer system as the reason why New York City is safer today.”

I feel that you are being ignorant. I provided you with the information on COMPSTAT in my previous post. Since you didn’t bother to read it, you are now unintelligent on this issue. However, since I have one extra minute before work, I can cut and paste:

[quote]Like their colleagues in New York, officials in other cities have created Compstats for other problems – or a combination of problems. Baltimore, Maryland, has taken Mark Green’s suggestion and implemented Citistat, which tracks city government as a whole. City agencies provide regular data about their work to a central office that analyzes the data and creates reports for the mayor.

“The charts, maps, and pictures tell a story of performance, and those managers are held accountable,” said Matt Gallagher, director of operations for Citistat. Since the program was implemented, Baltimore has experienced a 40 percent reduction in payroll overtime, saving the city $15 million over two years, while taking on such indicators of urban blight as graffiti and abandoned vehicles.[/quote]

Since you have provided nothing concrete to show that Giuliani did anything more than be mayor when this crime reduction occurred, you have done little to bat for Giuliani. Until you do some footwork, I can’t refute your claims. But you will also have failed to show anyone that Giuliani is great except in a time of national disaster.

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But has the computer system in Baltimore reduced crime? I see that it has made payroll more effective and saved money but has it reduced crime? I am seriously curious about this so would appreciate any input you have on this.

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To reiterate: Until you do some footwork, I can’t refute your claims. But you will also have failed to show anyone that Giuliani is great except in a time of national disaster.

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Why cannot you show the figures that would indicate that this computer system in Baltimore is reducing crime before I show figures that Giuliani reduced crime? Is this a posting etiquette that I am not aware of?

Will respond after a meeting at 3:00 or tomorrow with some links. I am going to be arguing primarily that Giuliani’s tough “broken window” approach was in fact effective and that if other cities have adopted this, they too were experiencing reduced crime.

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Try this for a start…

Will try to get a few others before I run off…

nber.org/digest/jan03/w9061.html

AND

[quote]First

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It seems that this issue is a bit more complex than ‘zero-tolerance/broken windows’ good, everything else bad etc. Just a quick search found this:

Shattering “Broken Windows”: An Analysis of San Francisco’s Alternative Crime Policies

It seems that there may be more than one way to skin a cat and that many factors can be pointed to depending on your political persuasion. One thing that broken-windows does have is intuitive appeal, but intuition can lead you up some dodgy paths on occassion.

An interesting and practical topic.

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Hmmm I assume that you did not read through the article very far BB but just posted it as an “alternative.”

First, who and what is this organization?
Second, I find the research a bit spotty and not very useful.
Third, do we know of the other cities compared, which have broken-window policies and which do not? If we do not then we are only taking San Francisco’s case and the drop as claimed by its authors on their say so.
Fourth, again for the cities in California, which have broken window policies and which do not. It is not very effective to compare these only to show that San Francisco’s crime rates have dropped as well.

Having lived in the Bay Area during this time, I would highly suspect that given that ONLY San Francisco County and not the other areas are being touted as experiencing lower crime, it might have something to do with the fact that San Francisco the city and county became on of the least affordable areas of any major city during the 1990s. Ergo, if we looked at the SF METRO area, including all the poor areas not mentioned in the county and city limits, then we may find out where many of those criminals went. See my point?