Free Drinks to the Homeless in Canada

Politics International Politics
1

OHhhh Cana-hic-daa…

[quote]Study toasts free drinks for homeless alcoholics
Jan 05 12:05 AM US/Eastern

Free drinks may improve the health and lives of homeless alcoholics and reduce their run-ins with police, according to a study published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.

Seventeen chronic alcoholics who drank upwards of 46 glasses a day over the past 35 years, including cheap substitutes such as mouthwash that often led to unconsciousness, were offered a glass of wine or sherry each hour, from 7:00 am to 10:00 pm at an Ottawa shelter over five to 24 months.

Most of the fifteen men and two women, with an average age of 51 years, had tried detox programs and abstention, but were unable to maintain sobriety.

“These are people you and I would pass on the street totally inebriated, who had drunk huge amounts,” said Jeff Turnbull, one of the authors of the study.

Three quit, three died of alcohol-related disease before the end of the study, but 11 others reported “a markedly decreased consumption of beverage and non-beverage alcohol, and most reported improved sleep, hygiene, nutrition and health,” according to the authors of the study.(more at link)
breitbart.com/news/2006/01/0 … s7mnr.html[/quote]

2

Sounds like a reasonable plan. Those people are sick and should recieve medical care.

3

Why is there a picture of Ukrainian man ? That’s a Ukrainian beer ad behind him, so I presume it was taken in the Ukraine.

4

Is that a fish next to the beer? Whats that all about? And BFM some kind of egghead? How does he know that U-Krainian?

5

Drink too much beer = beer goggles = taking home a fishy cougar.

6

So this is a moderation program? Or do they think keeping them moderately buzzed, but not stinky drunk will help them cause fewer problems to society at large??

7

Welcome to Soviet Kanuckistan; where helping people is considered cruel and inhumane, while hurting them is considered a kindness.

This study is faux science. I mean really, picking a few alcoholics at random and declaring the results to be representative of all alcoholics? C’mon!

8

Canada may have it’s share of problems but long term alcoholics like those described in the article are all the same. More or less permanently fucked up. You can leave them to their own devices digging through dumpsters for mouthwash to drink or you can bring a little stability to their lives. And to the odd one who might be capable of abstaining, into contact with the psychologists and social workers who might help them to do so.

Canada makes enough from the taxes on the sale of alcohol and cigarettes to help treat the resultant addictions.

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[quote=“bob”]Canada may have it’s share of problems but long term alcoholics like those described in the article are all the same. More or less permanently f*cked up. You can leave them to their own devices digging through dumpsters for mouthwash to drink or you can bring a little stability to their lives. And to the odd one who might be capable of abstaining, into contact with the psychologists and social workers who might help them to do so.

Canada makes enough from the taxes on the sale of alcohol and cigarettes to help treat the resultant addictions.[/quote] :bravo: :notworthy: :bravo: What he said.

bobepine

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[quote=“bobepine”][quote=“bob”]Canada may have it’s share of problems but long term alcoholics like those described in the article are all the same. More or less permanently f*cked up. You can leave them to their own devices digging through dumpsters for mouthwash to drink or you can bring a little stability to their lives. And to the odd one who might be capable of abstaining, into contact with the psychologists and social workers who might help them to do so.

Canada makes enough from the taxes on the sale of alcohol and cigarettes to help treat the resultant addictions.[/quote] :bravo: :notworthy: :bravo: What he said.

bobepine[/quote]

This is a tougher question for me than I originally thought. My first reaction was that the program was corrupt, wasteful, and absurd.

After that, however, I saw jdsmith’s post ("…do they think keeping them moderately buzzed, but not stinky drunk will help them cause fewer problems to society at large?"), and I thought: “Yes, that’s probably exactly what they think.”

Bob’s post just made me think about this possibility even more. I still don’t know whether I agree with it (especially to the extent that the government is doing it or directly/indirectly financing it), but I no longer think the situation is completely open and shut.

Not sure I recognize myself these days. :s :slight_smile:

Anyway, cheers for introducing the topic, TC.

H

I more or less agree with bob on this one as well. I don’t know whether this particular program is, net, beneficial or not. But the idea does not sound completely absurd to me.

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And another POI -
The “Functioning Alcoholic.”
Its not a myth.
Could a program such as this provide the stability one of these folks would need to ‘achieve’ this status?

12

Substitute “methadone” for “alcohol” and it’s similar to the help the government has been giving junkies for years.

13

Controlled drinking vs total abstinence is an argument that has been kicking around for eons.

Personally I think the total abstinence scheme is an abysmal failure. The crux behind total abstinence is AA’s 12 steps, which efffectively hands all power to a thing, alcohol, and says the alcoholic is in such a sorry state they simply can’t be trusted to touch a drop. If they do, they can’t be held accountable cos they’re sick.

Moderation is a very good alternative and often the first exposure some drinkers have to the idea of drinking for the moderate effect rather than the knock-out.

Go Canada!

But seriously? Homeless in Canada . . . wouldn’t they like all just die in winter?

HG

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That’s precisely what a good many do. See that wino over there? He’s been laying like that for two days…

It happens.

I once saw a dead guy sitting all blue and stiff looking waiting for a bus. Don’t know if it ever came.

15

That’s more or less as I saw it as well, although that would be assuming (as I was) that what they were handing out was somewhat “watered-down” booze.

Mod lang’s post has me thinking about this again, however, and focusing on the incentive effects that such a program might create.

Not that this is anything new. Essentially every “safety-net” or other well meaning program that is created to help those who are in a bad way is --I suspect-- destined to face this same problem. Lots of smart people have thought about these problems, and nobody (that I have ever read) has come up with a magic bullet solution to the trade-off.

16

Canada is gaining a pretty long tradition of harm reduction programs. I think this is a good thing. In Vancouver (last I heard) if you are an intravenous heroin or cocaine addict, you can go to a “safe injection site” where you are given clean needles, a quiet safe place to do your stuff in, councelling, limited medical care (for infections and reactions to lovely things like your dealer selling you poison) and generally a little bit of safety and a place to rest your tired, stoned ass and think about your life for a bit.) There was also a machine that could test the quality of your drugs. I have no idea how this worked out long term.

For a long time now most largish cities in BC have had needle exchange programs (to hopefully stop people from sharing needles and for hookers to use condoms)

The above I consider a good thing. I didn’t use to.

I think it’s a good thing to help alcoholics in the same way.

Moderation is a wonderful alternative to alcohol or drug abuse in any form. The fact is, if you are the type of person who has one toke or drink or whatever and you can’t stop until you have damaged everything in your life and you wake up in a hospital or a jail in a strange town, and you get out and do it again and again, maybe you should consider total abstinence. It actually works for many happy people when they consider the alternative.

If you CAN control your drinking or drug use, then perhaps you are not a DRUG ADDICT or an ALCOHOLIC!

I take offence at your opinion, Huang Guang Chen. AA’s 12 steps do not hand all power to alcohol, but to an unspecified higher power. Nothing about not being trusted to handle a drop. Or being in a “sorry state”. Yes, abstinence is suggested as the means to recovery, but you are welcome to go out and try moderation if you so chose. And you will be welcomed back if you fail. A couple of the most difficult of the twelve steps involve being totally accountable for your actions while drinking or sober; past, present or future.

Many people have not hit ROCK-BOTTOM, but simply don’t want to. Ever wake up thinking: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!?

Don’t knock an organization that clearly helps many people for as long as it can; often until the ends of their lives. Please. Maybe somebody needs help!

Moderation is a wonderful idea and a workable concept for many people. Not for everyone. if you’re in trouble and you can pull moderation off, then I salute you!

I wrote the above about AA because I wanted to defend a useful program for many people. This violates one of the traditions of the fellowship. A “member” is not supposed to publicly espouse(sp?) the virtues of the membership because once in a while a member who is in public scrutiny falls off the wagon and 1000 people love to talk about what a crock of shit the program is. It’s like if I opened a restaurant with some new kind of tasty treat and advertised here, and 500 people tried it and liked it, and 5 people claimed they got food poisoning. If anybody ever asked about the food at my restaurant on forumosa, almost every post would be peppered with confirmation or denial about it. I’m guilty of this as well; we all are. The point is: AA and other organizations that teach the same 12 step program don’t need publicity; good or bad.

I hope this post makes sense enough.
peace now!

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[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]But seriously? Homeless in Canada . . . wouldn’t they like all just die in winter?
HG[/quote]

Not with all the do-gooders waiting on them hand and foot. You should see the flurry of activity as hot soup, warm clothing, and heavy blankets (or in some cases, thermal sleeping bags) are lavished upon the unproductive.

Giving someone a quilt and a mug of hot soup so he can spend the night outside in -30 C weather is considered a kindness. Bringing them in from the cold, forcibly if necessary, and treating them for their alcoholism and / or mental illness is considered cruel and inhumane. :loco:

18

It’s true. Being destitute and a drug addict or morbidly alcoholic in Canada practically makes you a celebrity. People go out of their way to make you feel comfortable, offering you employment and such, perhaps a spot on the college lecture circuit.

19

That’s right bob and “sarcasm is anger’s ugly cousin”. “wink”

bobepine

20

Hmm, well it was suggested by an annonymous legend of Forumosa that perhaps all Canada’s homeless get sent to Taiwan to teach English when it gets cold. I’m not in Taiwan, so did anyone else notice a large influx of Cannuck teachers just before winter? Is Citizen Cain an elaborate Cannuck soup kitchen?

HG