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21

[quote=“mpallard”]You paid $600/hour. That’s ridiculous. Virtually any Taiwanese person can do the job, you just need to tell them what they need to do.

I’m willing to debate whether $150 is too low (I don’t think it is, all my tutors were making far less then that at their other jobs), but paying $600 is showing a complete lack of understanding of the economic realities.[/quote]

Just like any foreigner can teach English for 650NT, hey?

Sure, I could have found a cheaper teacher. I wouldn’t have found a better teacher. She took me from Practical Audio Visual Chinese 3 to where I wanted to be. We started on around 400 an hour and I raised her pay after she decided to quit teaching Chinese because she was bored. The lowest she ever charged was 350NT, afaik, and that was years ago.

The ‘economic reality’ was that she certainly wouldn’t have kept up the effort (made tailor made for me materials for four-six hours’ worth of classes per week) and the travelling had I offered her a kid’s wage. She basically taught me as a hobby/pet project and didn’t have any other students. She didn’t ‘need’ the money at all and I paid her because I valued her classes at more than 150NT. She trained as a Chinese teacher for her own interest and has since quit to do something more fitted to her intelligence/interests.

Does your 150NT an hour tutor bring a laptop to class with an Excel database of the vocab you did in each lesson so that vocab was constantly reviewed in later lessons? Write original stories to practice your reading? Make up reading comprehension question worksheets for newspaper articles? Mark an essay a week for you and kick your arse if you are too lazy to do it? Make up games, worksheets and other activities based around DVDs of TV series and movies? Or does she do PAV Chinese and ‘conversation’ with you? I taught for more than ten years and had very little free time in Taiwan. I didn’t want to waste it with cheap, boring, ineffective, amateurish Chinese lessons. I have precisely zero patience for Shida-style teaching, or LE style yap.

I could have taught myself for free, if it were a matter of money.

I’ve written this post before, anyway. Whatever gets you from A-B. Or ㄅ to ㄥ.

22

Ok, I think I misunderstood you post.

I never imagined that an adult would need a language teacher to “make up games” and “kick arse” if the student didn’t do their homework.

Thought that was reserved for elementary students, my bad.

23

[quote=“mpallard”]Ok, I think I misunderstood you post.

I never imagined that an adult would need a language teacher to “make up games” and “kick arse” if the student didn’t do their homework.

Thought that was reserved for elementary students, my bad.[/quote]

Well, welcome to forumosa and good luck with your studying!

24

[quote=“mpallard”]Ok, I think I misunderstood you post.

I never imagined that an adult would need a language teacher to “make up games” and “kick arse” if the student didn’t do their homework.

Thought that was reserved for elementary students, my bad.[/quote]
Come on, she had an excel sheet for his vocabulary, an excel sheet, do you understand!

Buttercup, I understand you. I’m in the same situation when I try to tell my friends why I always fly with 1st class airfares.
Yes it can be 5 times pricier, but seriously, the stewardess call me with my name and they keep track of my lunchbox tastes on their database. I even tip the stewardess when she’s hot.

25

Mock all you like, ye mockers! However, I speak and write Chinese fairly well, so the money was hardly wasted (well, apart from the fact that I moved to England so it’s now completely irrelevant whether I know Chinese or not). You guys are still debating whether it’s better to go to a free chat-in at a travel agency, or a 150NT lesson, in Mos Burger, where you probably make her buy her own iced tea for the joy of educating you. :laughing:

26

Not everything is measurable in dollar terms. Language exchanges are a pleasant, relaxing setting in which to learn, without the pressures of the textbook, and are good for broadening one’s vocabulary through chatting about a wide range of topics, including current issues. They are excellent settings for extra practice in casual conversation, and a great way to learn if you’re short on cash. And importantly, they are also a wonderful way to make friends; when you’re here in a foreign country, out of your element, and perhaps feeling a bit isolated, making new friends, including among the locals, is important IMO. Some of my closest friends here (and my wife) started out as language exchanges. This OP’s offer sounds like a good opportunity for the right person.

Anyway, why, if someone posts looking for a language exchange, would anyone dump on them saying something like that? If you’re not interested, why not just not respond to the offer? :loco:

27

[quote=“mpallard”]You paid $600/hour. That’s ridiculous. Virtually any Taiwanese person can do the job, you just need to tell them what they need to do.

I’m willing to debate whether $150 is too low (I don’t think it is, all my tutors were making far less then that at their other jobs), but paying $600 is showing a complete lack of understanding of the economic realities.[/quote]

The tutor I have at the moment is getting 400NT per hour and a starbucks thrown in… although she’s got no formal experience, she has great conversation skills (which was all I really wanted ). She told me that as she’s had a few months experience, her price will be going up to 500NT per month and I’m not certain whether I should pay it or not?

Reasons for:

  • She does her job well.
  • (guilt), when I was teaching I was getting 700 - 800NT per hour, I feel crap offering her half - I feel like it’s saying your language is only worth half of mine.

Reasons against:

  • Professional Chinese teachers (well, the ones who teach at Mandarin schools) can’t be earning anything above 300-350NT per hour.
  • Doesn’t have any teaching qualifications.
  • I could probably find a dozen more conversation partners for less (but it can take a while finding a suitable tutor/conversation partner).

Sorry - back to your debate: If you’re in Taipei, then I think 150NT is way too low, you might want to consider lifting it a bit or including a coffee/tea for them ~ then again, who am I to tell you what to do - it’s just a suggestion.

28

$150 per hour could only be considered too low if no one was responding to my ad or the people responding were not getting the job done. Neither of which are the case.

Of course I buy them food, drink, or whatever.

I personally believe any native speaker can teach Chinese if the student knows what they want and directs them.

Also, teaching experience is highly overated for anything above beginner level. This goes for both Chinese and English.

29

[quote=“mpallard”]$150 per hour could only be considered too low if no one was responding to my ad or the people responding were not getting the job done. Neither of which are the case.

Of course I buy them food, drink, or whatever.

I personally believe any native speaker can teach Chinese if the student knows what they want and directs them.

Also, teaching experience is highly overated for anything above beginner level. This goes for both Chinese and English.[/quote]

Are you a teacher, just as a matter of interest?

As I said, the proof’s in the pudding. I spent 4-5 years doing Chinese class. I’m happy with my level and don’t begrudge a penny. As a teacher, I’m certainly not going to spend my time ‘directing’ some random person into teaching me properly. Why should I pay for some lazy kid’s training?

30

As a teacher, I’m definitely going to spend time telling an untrained person how to present the language to me. I don’t want to be taught using the “conventional wisdom”. If I did, I’d just go to some language center.

Some of the best tutors I’ve had were not teachers to begin with; what they were, was open-minded and ready to do what the weird foreigner wanted, no matter how strange it seemed.

31

[quote=“ironlady”]As a teacher, I’m definitely going to spend time telling an untrained person how to present the language to me. I don’t want to be taught using the “conventional wisdom”. If I did, I’d just go to some language center.

Some of the best tutors I’ve had were not teachers to begin with; what they were, was open-minded and ready to do what the weird foreigner wanted, no matter how strange it seemed.[/quote]
But not for less than a Southeast Asian maid earns, I’ll wager! “Teach me Chinese. I’ll pay you EVEN MORE than you can earn working the graveyard shift at 7-11!”
Funny, Pallard doesn’t sound like an Aberdeenshire surname.

32

I think most of you are over estimating the skill it takes to teach your native language. Basically, if the student knows how they learn, it takes none. This is one reason why English teacher salaries don’t increase with experience. Taiwan always has people killing time, waiting for their military service, school, or whatever to start up. If you make it convenient for them, talking to me in Chinese for two hours and making up a few sample sentences is the easiest job they’ll ever have.

In addition, given that knowledge of Mandarin is unlikely to yield any economic benefit it really makes no sense to spend a bunch of money learning it. It’s already taking a significant amount of time, at the very least it should be relatively cheap.

I know Buttercup is still stubornly trying to justify how spending $600/hr somehow allowed him to learn Chinese faster and better than anyone else. The fact is he could have gotten the same quality instruction by paying 1/3 to 1/4 as much.

Finally, if anyone out there is looking to hire a private tutor you don’t need to pay them to make up vocab lists or stories. There are tons of good text books out there that have both.

33

I dunno. I’m sure you’re right. I just don’t think I could have the brass neck to do it, myself. And I DO come from Aberdeenshire! You need a crowbar and a jaws of life machine to get into my sporran.

34

[quote=“mpallard”]I think most of you are over estimating the skill it takes to teach your native language. Basically, if the student knows how they learn, it takes none. This is one reason why English teacher salaries don’t increase with experience. Taiwan always has people killing time, waiting for their military service, school, or whatever to start up. If you make it convenient for them, talking to me in Chinese for two hours and making up a few sample sentences is the easiest job they’ll ever have.

In addition, given that knowledge of Mandarin is unlikely to yield any economic benefit it really makes no sense to spend a bunch of money learning it. It’s already taking a significant amount of time, at the very least it should be relatively cheap.

I know Buttercup is still stubornly trying to justify how spending $600/hr somehow allowed him to learn Chinese faster and better than anyone else. The fact is he could have gotten the same quality instruction by paying 1/3 to 1/4 as much.

Finally, if anyone out there is looking to hire a private tutor you don’t need to pay them to make up vocab lists or stories. There are tons of good text books out there that have both.[/quote]

I’m a teacher. I am fairly good at what I do although I could be better and know many who are. I could have paid less for this teacher, but it was important to me to keep her. She didn’t employ ‘conventional wisdom’ and was certainly much more prepared and imaginative than I could be bothered to be with my classes. Why the assumption that Taiwanese people can’t do anything properly and need to be ‘supervised’ all the time? I certainly wasn’t going to waste my time teaching some thick kid how to teach me! That would be insane and I’m not going to pay even a small amount to train someone else in my free time when I found someone good. ironlady, I’m sure you had some great tutors too, but that does not detract from my needs and my experience.

I’m very happy with the tuition I got, for the money I paid. I don’t need to ‘justify’ it: I spent more per week on taxis. I could easily afford it (teachers’ salaries DO go up with experience…), and my time and having a fun, useful experience was more important than penny-pinching.

Basically, I wasn’t going to pay her less than my cleaner. Got a story how I could have got a cleaner for 40 NT then sat there teaching her how to mop? I just don’t understand your attitude and your hostility towards what I spent my own money on.

:laughing: Are you a teacher? Taiwan-style Stockholm syndrome or are you an unqualified guy who’s been doing it a few years and thinks they do it well? Or are you an insurance salesman or an engineer or something, who thinks they are hot shit because they aren’t ‘just a teacher’? Trying to understand your perspective.

35

A student can learn something from anyone, and I find just chatting with streetside vendors and taxi drivers useful. More self-aware, insightful and intelligent students are of course better able to glean knowledge from just any old source – but skilled teachers can teach far more effectively and efficiently IMO, and are especially valuable to students who aren’t as aware of how they learn or where their problems lie.

Actually, they do. Some double over time.

I doubt it, personally. Quality instructors are often worth every penny.

36

Ideally, hiring a private tutor should be the best “language” learning experience a person ever has because a private tutor can personalize the learning experience according to the students needs, intrests and aptitudes. There is no upper limit to the amount of skill that a person could bring to the task. You are perhaps aware that “languages” are rather complicated things. People are complicated too. A tutor needs to bring about a productive engagement between these two complicated things. He can bring as much education, experience, insight, creativity, passion, intelligence, insight as is required by any job on the face of the planet. Last week I was paid NT3,000 per hour in one class. It wasn’t too much. That was a profoundly good class and given the nature of the material I taught, material that was precisely and quickly geared to what my student really needed to know I could be a real prick and argue that it wasn’t enough, but teaching a language isn’t like running a convinience store. There is a certain amount of good will involved. A certain amount of generosity and honour, both from the student and the teacher. Buttercup showed all of these qualities and comes up for any kind of criticism for it? Pathetic.

37

[quote=“mpallard”]
In addition, given that knowledge of Mandarin is unlikely to yield any economic benefit it really makes no sense to spend a bunch of money learning it. [/quote]
:loco: :loco: :loco:
Not what it says on my tax returns, mate. But you do have to get pretty good at it before you’re going to make much at it. Not really the whole “I’ll spend a year at Shi-ta and get fluent, then…” thing.