My god man. The French rolled over like sheep for the Germans.They say in NZ, men are men and sheep run scared. Imagine what they would do to the French…
Reminds me of a few jokes I heard;
Two NZ sheep farmers are flying the mob to a new farm. Suddenly, the engine fails and the plane begins to fall quickly to the ground.
SH1: “Quick! Grab a parachute and jump!”
SH2: “What about the sheep ?!?”
SH1: “Bugger the sheep !!!”
SH2: (pause) “Do you think we have time?”
Why does New Zealand have some of the fastest race horses in the world?
Because the horses have seen what they do with their sheep
I don’t think it was quite as simple as that mate! They lost to a bigger army whose blitzkrieg tactics turned out to be surprisingly effective. The Maginot Line was an impressive series of fortifications, but the Nazis just went around it. Many French soldiers died in the defense of France. Yes, they lost, but that doesn’t mean they “rolled over like sheep”.
Let’s not make revisionist history here. In the World War II context, resistance fighters and the maquisards were a small minority in France versus the Petain collaborationists or passive population.
Anyone who has spent time in France for more than holidays (I have ) knows it is not polite dinner conversation to talk about the war. That says it all don’t you think? So many didn’t take an active role when they could have.
Not really sure why the French today should be tarred with the same brush as the French of the WW2 era. The youngest soldiers of that era would be in their 90’s today if they’re still alive.
Indeed. But that won’t stop people from dishonoring their memories with the “French are wussies” canard.[/quote]
Please, they can only win a rugby match by ball twisting in the scrum…Wussies :raspberry:
I blame De Gaulle. He is responsible for the whole mess by pulling France out of Nato. Only after this did France need its own nuclear deterrent.
This was because he was not happy with the “special relationship” that existed between the UK and the USA.
He also wanted to have the option of not entering a war against the USSR as a result of Nato commitments.
All US troops, air bases, missile were outta France.
The USA and UK saved his ass in WW2 and this was their repayment.
In the World War II context, resistance fighters and the maquisards were a small minority in France versus the Petain collaborationists or passive population.[/quote]
You neglect to mention the army of 1940, the Free French forces, and of course the sizeable commitment from French colonial forces to both Allied & Vichy regimes.
All that being said, there was a certain degree of “defeatism” in the French army command’s reaction to the blitzkrieg. When they saw what they were up against, some generals did experience a certain softening of the spine. I think that is partially where the perception of them as “cheese eating surrender monkeys” comes from.
Yes, but part of that was due to the bitter infighting between the Marginot and De Gaulle camps. De Gaulle wanted to build airplanes, tanks, mobile artillery, armored personnel vehicles etc. in order to match Germany’s modernization program, which French intelligence was well aware of. As you said, the Germans simply drove around or flew over the Marginot Line in all but a few places. Add to the fact that the French army was largely composed of aging, unfit WWI veterans who were used to static, defensive trench warfare. And by the way, the French army was never completely mobilized. Even their logistical methods were outdated. The French were completely overwhelmed by a larger, more modern, and more powerful army. Even so, tens of thousands of French soldiers died fighting a superior enemy, and I see little value in constantly dishonoring them with the “French are weak” canard.
All apologies, but who does?
Perhaps some anglo-saxons of the most insecure variety. Intentionally obtuse to certain notable French contributions to specific anglo countries, such as England, America, Canada, and I dare say even South Africa.
How could one seriously lay into the French after what Napoléon Bonaparte did with those hardcases?
[quote=“BigJohn”]
I consider 85,000 deaths to be “many”.[/quote]
You’ll note that only 50% of those deaths were military, and a significant percentage were from defending Algeria against the Brits and Americans, as well as Vichy forces fighting their US “liberators”. The rest were the people the Germans exterminated and sent to camps often with the help of Vichy officials.
Let’s also consider:
– Outside of De Gaulle (one star General), the French did not launch any counterattacks.
France had pledged not to make a separate peace. They had a powerful navy and forces outside France.Instead, they surrendered.
The French General Doyen, on May 30 and June 2 of 1945 (just after the war), threatened US General Crittenden with force if he didn’t withdraw from Northwest Italy.
So maybe the French weren’t 100% cowards. But they did get beat in six weeks, surrendered to the Nazis, and threatened the Americans after the war was over.
Well, they certainly weren’t one of the “victors” of WW2. Why the fuck did they get a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council? By that logic, Papua New Guinea should have got a seat.
Incidents like this, the existence of the Vichy regime and its performance in North Africa, Charles De Gaulle both during and after the war cause this reputation far more than the actual surrender in 1940.
[quote=“ChewDawg”][quote=“BigJohn”]
I consider 85,000 deaths to be “many”.[/quote]
You’ll note that only 50% of those deaths were military, and a significant percentage were from defending Algeria against the Brits and Americans, as well as Vichy forces fighting their US “liberators”. The rest were the people the Germans exterminated and sent to camps often with the help of Vichy officials.
Let’s also consider:
– Outside of De Gaulle (one star General), the French did not launch any counterattacks.
France had pledged not to make a separate peace. They had a powerful navy and forces outside France.Instead, they surrendered.
The French General Doyen, on May 30 and June 2 of 1945 (just after the war), threatened US General Crittenden with force if he didn’t withdraw from Northwest Italy.
So maybe the French weren’t 100% cowards. But they did get beat in six weeks, surrendered to the Nazis, and threatened the Americans after the war was over.
Cheese-eating surrender monkeys! [/quote]
Six weeks??? It was over in days. Damn those Germans!! Who would have ever thought Hitler would come through Belgium and the Netherlands flanking the line.
Are military planners still so stupid? :loco:
