General Opinions on Smoking: Rights, Risks Etc

Traveller, thats good to know. I also agree that it is shame that the smokers have been branded ‘stupid’ and the non-smokers have been branded as ‘petty.’ etc. No need for name calling. The only real point on which I think there are any grounds for debate regards ‘secondary smoke’ health issues. All other lines of debate only serve to create a division between the forumosans. Lets just meet in a pub next time, and tell everyone to eat before they come. Won’t that solve the problems? Or have alternate happy hours? One month - smokers choice, next month - non-smokers choice.

Lets all get along… The idea of the HAPPY hour is to be happy.

[quote=“TomHill”]Traveller, thats good to know. I also agree that it is shame that the smokers have been branded ‘stupid’ and the non-smokers have been branded as ‘petty.’ etc. No need for name calling. The only real point on which I think there are any grounds for debate regards ‘secondary smoke’ health issues. All other lines of debate only serve to create a division between the forumosans. Lets just meet in a pub next time, and tell everyone to eat before they come. Won’t that solve the problems? Or have alternate happy hours? One month - smokers choice, next month - non-smokers choice.

Lets all get along… The idea of the HAPPY hour is to be happy.[/quote]

TomHill, as i have stated from the beginning of this debate ihave no problem in generral with that, although i must say that the attitude of some in this thread is beginning to make me think about reconsidering my position.

Like you i do not like smoke when i am eating, despite being a smoker and take care not to smoke when others are eating, unless outside. Most smokers are considerate, it is just a shame that the majority of the vociferous non smokers on this forum are not as considerate.

Traveller, did you forget to put your brain in before you got online this morning?

Like I said, you’re usually a considerate guy so I don’t see any point in giving you a hard time about your habit. But it doesn’t change the way I feel about it. It is disgusting and harms my health and given the choice I would rather not have to deal with it.

But I do have to deal with it, and you don’t seem to understand the point that many of us are trying to make. WHY THE HELL DO I HAVE TO BREATHE SMOKE EVERY TIME I GO OUT? Is there some universal law that I’m unaware of specifying that pubs should be toxic?

The only reason that smoking is ‘the norm’ in pubs is that people like you don’t accept that it can be any other way. You assume that ‘pub’ = ‘smoking’. Why should you be correct? It doesn’t work that way in some countries, and that has come about because people like me protested long and loudly enough that WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO GO OUT WITHOUT BEING ASSAULTED BY OTHER PEOPLE’S SMOKE.

Other than “people smoke in pubs and I’m too fucking neanderthal to imagine anything different” can you give any explanation for this belief that people who don’t want to smoke should stay home. Why is it true that pubs are the exclusive preserve of smokers? Why don’t YOU stay home and leave the fun places to the people that are not imposing the foul residue of their addiction on the people around them?

The only reason I can see is that “this is the way it’s always been”, which is not a good reason in my book. A little while ago someone invented something called ‘social change’ and it has proven very popular ever since. It’s how we make the world a better place, and refusing to accept that other people have any right to want a better life is not helping your case.

And before you start confusing the issue, I am not advocating that pubs become non-smoking or that smokers be confined to an unventilated room, forced to eat their cigarette butts, and hosed down with bleach before being allowed back into a social setting. (Much as I want to.) I’m not even asking you to stop smoking if I choose to come and talk to you, because I do respect your right to get your pleasures however you may see fit and I don’t think I should try and impose my values on you. And you know damn well that I do come and talk to you and do enjoy your friendship and I don’t give you a hard time about smoking.

But I do want you to understand that every time you light a cigarette you are FORCING the people around you to participate in something that many find really objectionable. Why is that so hard for smokers to understand? I don’t go out to smoke. I go out to eat and drink and have fun with my friends and I do so DESPITE the smoke. Why can’t you go out and have fun and drink and eat despite the very reasonable requirement that you not poison or gross out anyone around you?

Why should smokers impose their values on the rest of us? Why not the other way round? Why shouldn’t we be telling you to stay away if you don’t like what we like?

I’m serious. What gives you the right to say that bars and restaurants are places where smoking is acceptable? What possible justification do you have for telling people to stay away if they don’t like it? WHY does smoke have to be an integral part of a night out?

Huh? I go to pubs to drink ales and porters and stouts and maybe enjoy the company of friends and some pub grub.

Why else would I go to a pub?

I really don’t like to push this issue… but, on the one hand you are saying that you are considerate of the wishes of non-smokers, and on the other hand you (and not only you, Traveller) make statements such as the one above.

Sorry, but its difficult to imagine that your statement that you will be considerate of others is sincere when you subsequently post statements like the one above.

I ask the question again:

Am I entitled to visit a pub? If yes, why should your right to breathe smoke infringe on my right to breathe clean air?

[quote=“Traveller”]
So sayeth the gospel according to the righteous ex smoker.[/quote]Yeah, I agree about the self-righteous holier-than-thou ex-smoker types. Some of them can be real dicks about it. I don’t think I’m superior to you because I quit. All I can say is that you’d have to experience life as an ex-smoker in order to understand it. I’ve certainly experienced where you’re at, since I also really enjoyed my smoking and never felt too much sympathy for the non-smokers around me. Maybe one day you’ll quit and see this from the ex-smoker’s point of view. Don’t close yourself to that possibility, it’s mostly all up-side.
Like Tim Leary’s bumper sticker says, “Just say know” :wink:

Oh, and the smoky bar thing, I don’t go to bars anything like as often as I used to, I sit outside or in the non-smoking area if possible, and I don’t stay long enough for the stink to really get into my clothes. I don’t moan about it either. I don’t think it’s right for you to make me breathe that shit, but if it isn’t illegal for you to smoke there I deal with it, or leave, as you suggest. People who light up in a designated non-smoking area however will deal with my awful bad temper…

It is sad though that all the complaining about the smoke at HH makes me less keen to travel up to Taipei to meet you all.

Then quit whining about it on this forum and get the Laws of Taiwan changed to suit your wishes, if you cannot be bothered, then dont come here complaining about people smoking in pubs etc

You are the group doing the complaining not me. I have not said that pubs are the sole preserve of smokers, look past your own indoctrination on this issue and read what is written.

We do not have the right to say smoking is acceptable, if bar owners want to change their policy to be non smoking then either i stop going, or i go outside for a smoke, but by the same token where is your right to say that smoking is not acceptable, please show me the statute or law giving you this right.

Huh? I go to pubs to drink ales and porters and stouts and maybe enjoy the company of friends and some pub grub.

Why else would I go to a pub?

I really don’t like to push this issue… but, on the one hand you are saying that you are considerate of the wishes of non-smokers, and on the other hand you (and not only you, Traveller) make statements such as the one above.

Sorry, but its difficult to imagine that your statement that you will be considerate of others is sincere when you subsequently post statements like the one above.

I ask the question again:

Am I entitled to visit a pub? If yes, why should your right to breathe smoke infringe on my right to breathe clean air?[/quote]

TM, am not wanting to get into a big argument on this, but as i do know your background, perhaps you can point me to the piece of paper that gives anyone the RIGHT to breathe clean air.

I am not trying to be antagonistic, but i do not believe such a right actually exists, nor does a right to pollute the atmosphere either, not that it stops many companies and countries from doing just that.

To be honest, the position of certain posters in this thread is making me become more entrenched and hardened in my position, at least here, i still have consideration in real life.

[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“Traveller”]
So sayeth the gospel according to the righteous ex smoker.[/quote]Yeah, I agree about the self-righteous holier-than-thou ex-smoker types. Some of them can be real dicks about it. I don’t think I’m superior to you because I quit. All I can say is that you’d have to experience life as an ex-smoker in order to understand it. I’ve certainly experienced where you’re at, since I also really enjoyed my smoking and never felt too much sympathy for the non-smokers around me. Maybe one day you’ll quit and see this from the ex-smoker’s point of view. Don’t close yourself to that possibility, it’s mostly all up-side.
Like Tim Leary’s bumper sticker says, “Just say know” :wink:

Oh, and the smoky bar thing, I don’t go to bars anything like as often as I used to, I sit outside or in the non-smoking area if possible, and I don’t stay long enough for the stink to really get into my clothes. I don’t moan about it either. I don’t think it’s right for you to make me breathe that shit, but if it isn’t illegal for you to smoke there I deal with it, or leave, as you suggest. People who light up in a designated non-smoking area however will deal with my awful bad temper…

It is sad though that all the complaining about the smoke at HH makes me less keen to travel up to Taipei to meet you all.[/quote]

Hsiadogah, make the trip, somehow i think at least the next one or two HH are going to be in venues where the issue will be much reduced, and generally it is not that bad, although i accept that being a smoker i might have a different level of good and bad. :sunglasses:

That’s the second time you’ve made this stupid comment. The ONLY reason this law doesn’t exist is becuase if it did you’d have chaos with people sueing other people…etc. And just because there isn’t a law specifically against or for something…does that mean it’s ok to do? I’ve never read of a law that says I can’t fart in someone else’s face…doesn’t mean I’m going to walk up to people sitting in a library and do it…and then when they complain, yell out like an idiot “THERE IS NO LAW SAYING I CAN’T DO THIS!!!”.

Reasonably clean air.

Look, perhaps you are asking the wrong question.

You know that cigarette smoke is harmful to yourself and to others. Right?

Now, while the law does not prohibit you from smoking and harming yourself, what gives you the right to harm me?

Yes, yes… its legal to smoke in pubs. But, have I also the right to visit the pub? Yes or no?

If yes, then why do you believe that your right to smoke (which causes me harm) should prevail over my right to breathe clean air (which causes you no harm)?

OK, you assert that I have no right to breathe clean air. I think that I do have such a right.

[quote]Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.[/quote]

I think that your smoking in places where I am entitled to be harms me, possibly to the extent that it endangers my life. I do have a right to live… or do you deny that?

And I certainly have a right to visit the pub:

[quote]Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 27.

(1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.[/quote]

However, if that right is not recognized by you (and I mean that in the plural sense), and if some smokers continue to be inconsiderate of my rights, then perhaps I will see what I can do about pushing for legislation to prohibit smoking in restaurants and pubs in Taiwan.

It really shouldn’t be that difficult to get the no-smoking ball rolling.

The way I see it, if you wish to be permitted to smoke in pubs/restaurants in the future, you should be more considerate of non-smokers in the now.

[quote=“Mordeth”][quote=“Traveller”]

TM, am not wanting to get into a big argument on this, but as I do know your background, perhaps you can point me to the piece of paper that gives anyone the RIGHT to breathe clean air.

[/quote]

That’s the second time you’ve made this stupid comment. The ONLY reason this law doesn’t exist is becuase if it did you’d have chaos with people sueing other people…etc. And just because there isn’t a law specifically against or for something…does that mean it’s ok to do? I’ve never read of a law that says I can’t fart in someone else’s face…doesn’t mean I’m going to walk up to people sitting in a library and do it…and then when they complain, yell out like an idiot “THERE IS NO LAW SAYING I can’T DO THIS!!!”.[/quote]

I make the comment purely because the anti smoking brigade keep going on about this RIGHT, one which does not exist, however that seems to bother few people, yet they constantly go on about how smokers do not have the RIGHT, which i agree with by the way, to pollute the atmosphere, double standards is the terminology that comes to mind

Seems to me that civility is a lost art these days, especially when it comes to dealing with the smoking issue. This conversation on this board is a mypoic example of how we have lost all esteem when dealing with our friends,families, and associates when trying to express our needs. May I suggest that we take a note from a long standing member of society, who’s job it is to educate us, aid us, and enable us to have manners and tips when dealing with such issues.

And I quote Ms. Emily Post’s current thoughts on smoking…

[quote]In today’s etiquette books, smokers are told that the once rhetorical question

You are being deliberately obtuse. Nobody in their right mind argues that they should enjoy freedom to do as they please irrespective of how that affects others. Do you need a piece of paper to explain to you that filling other people’s air with carcinogens is wrong? People would sometimes even like to bring kids to HH for gods sake.

Why can’t smokers just agree to do the right thing and agree to smoke outside so this whole nasty arguement can be forgotten?

You are being deliberately obtuse. Nobody in their right mind argues that they should enjoy freedom to do as they please irrespective of how that affects others. Do you need a piece of paper to explain to you that filling other people’s air with carcinogens is wrong. People would sometimes even like to bring kids to HH for gods sake.

Why can’t smokers just agree to do the right thing and agree to smoke outside so this whole nasty arguement can be forgotten?[/quote]

bob, not obtuse at all, the anti smoking brigade have been blowing around the fact they have a RIGHt to breathe clean air, all i am asking is that they prove that right or shut up about it. I have already admitted that smokers do NOT have the right to pollute the atmosphere, i am just asking that someone form the anti smoking lobby admits the same.

As to smoking outside, most would, unless they are asked to remain inside due to noise issues with neighbours, as is the case in Alleycats come about 10pm.

As for kids being brought to HH then that is equally wrong, kids do not belong in pubs during evening hours, lunchtimes ok, but not evening.

The point is it is the ASB that seem unable to accept the offer of consideration from the SB and leave it there, they like you have to keep it going and force their rhetoric down other peoples throats, almost as bad as smoking i say.

Um, actually I believe the law in Taiwan does prohibit smoking in most establishments if the establishment is an ‘enclosed space.’ The law just isn’t enforced.

Edit: In the light of Traveller’s last few posts this one is largely redundant. I’ll leave it, for the record, but I think Traveller has clarified his position a bit more and don’t want to get into more of a shitfight with the guy.

Traveller, maybe you read that before you read my apology or PM? I certainly hope so.

Please read back through your own posts. From where I sit, your attitude is that smoking and pubs are inseperable and anyone who doesn’t like it can just go home. That may not be what you meant to say, and I don’t believe that it’s what you truly think, but it’s what you appear to be saying.

If I appear to be saying that smoking is not acceptable then maybe I should clarify: I ‘accept’ smoking because I don’t have any choice and unless people start actually blowing smoke in my face, or sitting down with me while I’m eating with a cigarette in their hand, then I don’t usually mention it. This rarely happens, because most smokers are as considerate as you are in real life.

But that doesn’t mean that I like smoking, or that I don’t wish for better. To have my desire for a less damaging and more pleasant environment dismissed as whining, and to be labelled a prick, is insulting. To be labelled a whining prick, and told to go home for having a perfectly reasonable wish is worse than insulting. But you don’t seem to recognise that I have a reasonable desire.

You seem to believe that smoking is normal and acceptable, particularly in social venues, and that anyone who doesn’t agree is being unreasonable and is trying to impose their values on you.

I am not trying to impose my values on you. I have not advocated any change in anyone’s policy. I haven’t even complained about your behaviour in real life, because I don’t have any grounds for complaint. But I have asked you to recognise and indicate some respect for the very deeply-help beliefs and values that have been expressed here. I have asked you to stop being dismissive, to stop telling people to go home, and simply to show a little respect for what we believe.

This is different from respecting the wishes of non-smokers by being considerate, which you do very well. I’m asking you to try and respect the beliefs that make people ask for consideration in the first place. But you don’t seem to get that.

I’m respecting the right to smoke which you have claimed, but you don’t seem to recognise that anyone else has any right to anything.

And what’s with this hiding behind the law bullshit? Laws are made in response the values of society, as expressed by the population. The only rights we have are the rights that people have insisted upon. You have heard of the Magna Carta, peasant’s revolt, Tolpuddle Martyrs, sufragettes, etc.? If no-one protests then nothing ever improves.

The laws regarding smoking have been changed in many countries AFTER people began to express a desire for change. That hasn’t happened YET in Taiwan, and when it does happen it won’t be in response to an argument between people who don’t have voting rights here. So let’s debate the issue, rather than hide behind the legislative environment in a newly-democratised police state where awareness of social and environmental issues has not yet matured.

Once more, will you please recognise that people who don’t smoke have as much ‘right’ to ask for an environment that suits them as you do? Will you recognise that pubs are not automatically ‘smoking permitted’ any more than they are automatically ‘smoke-free’?

The policies implemented by the management, patrons, and regulators of the hospitality industry should be set in response to the needs and wishes of all concerned, not just one lobby. This is a tough call to make, as Alleycat found out, and one which has to be worked out with respect on all sides. The first step is to understand just how deeply many people feel about being FORCED to breathe cigarette smoke when they go out, and also for non-smokers to recognise the power of addiction and the futility of trying to make people stop.

We all know that there are logistical issues and costs involved in finding a solution to this growing problem, but if solutions are to be found then there needs to be more appreciation on both sides of where the other side is coming from. Half-hearted segregation and voluntary measures don’t seem to be working for anyone, neither is bitching and sniping and dismissing ‘them’ as selfish or unreasonable.

We are collectively a pretty bright bunch of people, so why can’t we work out a better way of doing things? Is it because we’re all clinging emotionally to our needs without stopping to think/care about the effect our perfect solution would have on the other side?

Reasonably clean air.

Look, perhaps you are asking the wrong question.

You know that cigarette smoke is harmful to yourself and to others. Right?

Now, while the law does not prohibit you from smoking and harming yourself, what gives you the right to harm me?[/quote]

Agreed, and already admitted to in an earlier post.

[quote=“Tigerman”]Yes, yes… its legal to smoke in pubs. But, have I also the right to visit the pub? Yes or no?

If yes, then why do you believe that your right to smoke (which causes me harm) should prevail over my right to breathe clean air (which causes you no harm)?[/quote]

Agreed, and no where in this discussion have i argued that my wish to smoke should take precidence over your wish to breathe clean air, which is why i am quite happy to smoke outside or in a better ventilated area.

On a small point of issue, and it only affects a very small percentage of smokers, but there is a scenario - still trying to find the medical term - where not being able to smoke leads to anxiety attacks etc, and in extreme cases has led to people having real problems, so your (which causes you no harm) is not strictly true, but i will accept that for the majority it maybe true in terms of health issues.

[quote=“Tigerman”]OK, you assert that I have no right to breathe clean air. I think that I do have such a right.

[quote]Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.[/quote]

I think that your smoking in places where I am entitled to be harms me, possibly to the extent that it endangers my life. I do have a right to live… or do you deny that?

And I certainly have a right to visit the pub:

[quote]Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 27.

(1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.[/quote]

However, if that right is not recognized by you (and I mean that in the plural sense), and if some smokers continue to be inconsiderate of my rights, then perhaps I will see what I can do about pushing for legislation to prohibit smoking in restaurants and pubs in Taiwan.

It really shouldn’t be that difficult to get the no-smoking ball rolling.

The way I see it, if you wish to be permitted to smoke in pubs/restaurants in the future, you should be more considerate of non-smokers in the now.[/quote]

TM, two things, i would appreciate a link to that Universal Declaration of Human Rights, if nothing else would like to see who has actually signed up for it.

Secondly, please do try and push for non smoking to be enforced, i do not think it would be anywhere near as easy as you think, at least in terms of getting legislation passed, as i sure as hell will not permit myself to be blackmailed in this fashion now.

It would also settle the question as to what is or is not acceptable in legal terms. Feiren has expressed an opinion he thinks it is already law, just not enforced, inthat case it should be even easier for you to ensure the law gets enforced.

On a personal note, it might be just the impetus i need to give up.

And that makes you a considerate person, which consideration I very much appreciate.

In such case, the smoker could go outside to smoke, thus avoiding the onset of such an attack while not violating the airspace of the non-smoker.

Sure. See this. Its an UN Convention sort of thingy, so naturally Taiwan is not included… even though it is “universal”…

Well, I was mostly just responding in irritation. However, I really do think it would be relatively simple to get the ball rolling on such a crusade. I happen to know that the Taipei City Government has been for a long time studying the feasibility of initiating litigation against tobacco companies for compensation claims… the issue is probably ripe.

My understanding is the same as Feiren’s, actually. It used to be customary in Taiwan, years ago, that no smoking was permitted in places where air conditioners were running (because the windows would be closed at such times). But, I think this old custom has been legislated. Maybe I’ll try to find a cite.

That would be a good thing for you and me both!

Peace.

[quote=“Loretta”]Edit: In the light of Traveller’s last few posts this one is largely redundant. I’ll leave it, for the record, but I think Traveller has clarified his position a bit more and don’t want to get into more of a shitfight with the guy.

Traveller, maybe you read that before you read my apology or PM? I certainly hope so.

Please read back through your own posts. From where I sit, your attitude is that smoking and pubs are inseperable and anyone who doesn’t like it can just go home. That may not be what you meant to say, and I don’t believe that it’s what you truly think, but it’s what you appear to be saying.

If I appear to be saying that smoking is not acceptable then maybe I should clarify: I ‘accept’ smoking because I don’t have any choice and unless people start actually blowing smoke in my face, or sitting down with me while I’m eating with a cigarette in their hand, then I don’t usually mention it. This rarely happens, because most smokers are as considerate as you are in real life.

But that doesn’t mean that I like smoking, or that I don’t wish for better. To have my desire for a less damaging and more pleasant environment dismissed as whining, and to be labelled a prick, is insulting. To be labelled a whining prick, and told to go home for having a perfectly reasonable wish is worse than insulting. But you don’t seem to recognise that I have a reasonable desire.

You seem to believe that smoking is normal and acceptable, particularly in social venues, and that anyone who doesn’t agree is being unreasonable and is trying to impose their values on you.

I am not trying to impose my values on you. I have not advocated any change in anyone’s policy. I haven’t even complained about your behaviour in real life, because I don’t have any grounds for complaint. But I have asked you to recognise and indicate some respect for the very deeply-help beliefs and values that have been expressed here. I have asked you to stop being dismissive, to stop telling people to go home, and simply to show a little respect for what we believe.

This is different from respecting the wishes of non-smokers by being considerate, which you do very well. I’m asking you to try and respect the beliefs that make people ask for consideration in the first place. But you don’t seem to get that.

I’m respecting the right to smoke which you have claimed, but you don’t seem to recognise that anyone else has any right to anything.

And what’s with this hiding behind the law bullshit? Laws are made in response the values of society, as expressed by the population. The only rights we have are the rights that people have insisted upon. You have heard of the Magna Carta, peasant’s revolt, Tolpuddle Martyrs, sufragettes, etc.? If no-one protests then nothing ever improves.

The laws regarding smoking have been changed in many countries AFTER people began to express a desire for change. That hasn’t happened YET in Taiwan, and when it does happen it won’t be in response to an argument between people who don’t have voting rights here. So let’s debate the issue, rather than hide behind the legislative environment in a newly-democratised police state where awareness of social and environmental issues has not yet matured.

Once more, will you please recognise that people who don’t smoke have as much ‘right’ to ask for an environment that suits them as you do? Will you recognise that pubs are not automatically ‘smoking permitted’ any more than they are automatically ‘smoke-free’?

The policies implemented by the management, patrons, and regulators of the hospitality industry should be set in response to the needs and wishes of all concerned, not just one lobby. This is a tough call to make, as Alleycat found out, and one which has to be worked out with respect on all sides. The first step is to understand just how deeply many people feel about being FORCED to breathe cigarette smoke when they go out, and also for non-smokers to recognise the power of addiction and the futility of trying to make people stop.

We all know that there are logistical issues and costs involved in finding a solution to this growing problem, but if solutions are to be found then there needs to be more appreciation on both sides of where the other side is coming from. Half-hearted segregation and voluntary measures don’t seem to be working for anyone, neither is bitching and sniping and dismissing ‘them’ as selfish or unreasonable.

We are collectively a pretty bright bunch of people, so why can’t we work out a better way of doing things? Is it because we’re all clinging emotionally to our needs without stopping to think/care about the effect our perfect solution would have on the other side?[/quote]

Loretta

I think we know each other well enough to realise that some emotive comments on a forum is not going to be taken to seriously. It works both ways and maybe some of my posts were at least in tone a little OTT to which i will apologise to all concerned. This topic can get very emotive very quickly.

If you organise smoke free get togethers then dont forget some of us smokers, though it might appear not Sandman :laughing: can, could and would be prepared to forgive our habit for a couple of hours, or if not then at least vacate the building to enjoy our fix.

In regard to the element in bold above, then i am more than willing to accept they have as much right, and if anyone reads through my posts i have not actually said that they dont.

In Vancouver, various anti-smoking laws were attempted over the years. Those banning smoking in pubs failed until the issue was brought before workers compensation. Suddenly the issue became not one of protecting customers, who had the choice to enter the establishment or not, but of protecting workers. Those of you who smoke, consider that the health risks you are subjecting the pub workers to. Day after day, hour after hour. You might as well strap them to the top of the Mucha incinerator.

I believe Feiren is right and that Taipei has a number of anti-smoking laws in place but they are not widely known or properly enforced. In a country with a socialized form of medicine it is foolish to allow workers to be exposed to smoke. Eventually I believe the laws will be enforced as lawsuits against the goverment will arise as will the added costs of providing for the treatment of workers affected by smoke (And yes I am aware that workers in other fields are subjected to far worse chemicals. But such an observation should only make you want to ensure that you are not part of a system that treats workers as disposabe commodities.)

On a side note, pub attendance dropped for some time after anti-smoking legislation came in, only to rebound later. Pub owners happily discovered that there was a huge potential clientelle that had stopped going to pubs owing to the smoky atmosphere.