GEPT Grading

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
1

Looking for any help on the subject.

I’m currently teaching a GEPT listening class. No problems there; everything’s going great. The Longman GEPT books are really great - good exercises, answers, mostly Chinese with some English. My class likes it.

I want to start using the other GEPT tests (Reading, speaking, writing) in my other classes, and I think I’m mostly ready, but I’m not sure how to grade the paragraph writing portion of the writing test.

The writing test, if you aren’t aware, has two portions. The first part is sentence writing, in which you are given a sentence and either have to choose the correct verb, rewrite the sentence, or join two sentences together. These are straightforward and I have no problems with them.

For the paragraph writing portion, the student is given 3 pictures showing a sequence of events. They are then asked to write a paragraph describing the sequence of events/story. I think my students can do this, but I’m looking for some information on how to grade this. What kind of grammar and punctuation should I be looking for?

I’m going to start with the elementary level, but I may also do the intermediate and eventually high-intermediate, so I’m looking for some information on those 3 levels. Any links or insider info about what the criteria for successfully passing this is?

Thanks!

2

LTTC, the people who create the test, refuse to give any information about stuff like this. All the books you see are simply other people’s guesswork about what they think students should be learning. Anything you see that does actually tell you the truth is the result of happy chance, and not endorsed by LTTC, or else it’s the result of information being passed unofficially and is also not endorsed by LTTC. Basically, you’re on your own.

I have been told, but not reliably because nobody knows for sure, that shit like “gonna” and “wanna” are considered to be shining examples of good written English in GEPT.

Students who have actually taken the test tell me that they are not allowed to take any scrap paper into the test, that they are not allowed to make any marks on the question paper itself, and all paper used in the test must be handed in. In other words, there is nowhere to plan your composition and no way to know whether your list of notes on the answer sheet will be graded as if it was part of the finished product.

3

How can you write an essay or paragraph without planning it out first?
The GEPT is such nonsense. I feel so sorry for the kids that are forced to take these tests. If I had kids one day, I would encourage them to drop out of school. Seriously.

4

[quote=“Loretta”]
Students who have actually taken the test tell me that they are not allowed to take any scrap paper into the test, that they are not allowed to make any marks on the question paper itself, and all paper used in the test must be handed in. In other words, there is nowhere to plan your composition and no way to know whether your list of notes on the answer sheet will be graded as if it was part of the finished product.[/quote]

I seem to remember that being the rule when I did my O-levels. You wrote your notes on the answer book, wrote your composition, and crossed the notes through before handing in. (“cross through”, that was the expression used in the instructions, I remember wondering what was wrong with “cross out”). But you were allowed to keep the exam question paper.

Now I write, invigilate and grade exams myself, I have similar rule. I want to see their planning! Also, I tell them not to use rubbers (erasers) or white-out (Tippex), because I’ll sometimes give them credit for something they almost said. Tippex is really silly: full of nasty chemicals and half the time they forget to go back and write over it when it’s dry.

But of course I agree with the sentiments expressed about GEPT and its opacity.

OP what’s with the Longman listening book “mostly in Chinese”? :noway:

5

Well, as it turns out, the Longman books contain examples. So, they give you several phrases that you should look for, as well as a sample paragraph.

But they don’t tell you what counts. Like… if student forgets to conjugate a verb, how many points is that? What about wrong tense? What about wrong word/diction?

Yeah, the GEPT is nonsense, but it’s pretty much here to stay in Taiwan, so I’m just doing my best to help my kids get prepared for it.

As for the Longman book, it’s almost all in Chinese. The questions and answers are in English, of course. Also, the explanations of the answers are written in Chinese with some English mixed in, so I can usually get an idea of what they want to discuss after each question.

I’m not aware of any GEPT books that are entirely in English - the ones I’ve seen have all been in Chinese for Taiwanese teachers to teach Taiwanese students.

6

I’m going to start a new topic for this. Mods, feel free to merge if you want to.

So I’ve somewhat figured out the writing portion, now I want to figure out the listening portion.

I know that the listening is 3 sections of 15 questions each. That’s 45 questions.

The total points are worth 120 and the student must get 80 points to pass (Elementary).

Can someone tell me the point breakdown? As near as I can tell, it must be:

Part 1 - 2 pts/question
Part 2 - 3 pts/question
Part 3 - 3 pts/question

That would equal 120 points.

Anyone have any other ideas/solid info?
Thanks.

7

Penguin,

Please remember that the GEPT is uneven, meaning the level for writing is lower than for reading and listening. So your “intermediate” expectations should be flexible, expect higher and more difficult for the areas I mentioned. That does not mean you should relax, but you do have to adjust your game plan accordingly.

You know a test is nonsense when 8 year olds are forced to take them and their parents go balistic if they are not “Number One”.

8

[quote=“MPenguin”]

Yeah, the GEPT is nonsense, [/quote]

Why do you say this? It seems to me they are trying to ensure the test measures overall proficiency and is not simply something that can be prepped/crammed for.

That says a lot more about the parents than about the test, if it says anything about the test at all. Though the idea of eight-year olds taking it is silly. Did I see something about an age limit for it recently?

9

Point of order:

“How to grade the paragraph writing?”

:no-no: I go ballistic with students for writing or saying stuff like this. “Teacher, how to spell ‘paragraph’?”

Heading: How to spell paragraph[.]
Question: How do you spell paragraph?
Statement: I don’t know how to spell paragraph.

If you work on the principle that the rules don’t really matter and can safely be discarded at your convenience, then so will your students. They will use inappropriate forms of address, mangle sentences, refer to an apartment as a house, start every sentence with because, and generally feel free to decide for themselves how to speak English. As adults they will be unable to communicate effectively, and turn up in my classes to spend more money and time unlearning what you have taught them instead of going out and getting laid like young adults should do.

For all I know, the above is perfectly acceptable for GEPT.

10

Why do you say this? It seems to me they are trying to ensure the test measures overall proficiency and is not simply something that can be prepped/crammed for.[/quote]

Sure. But it would be nice to know how they define proficiency. Do they want long complex sentences with lots of big words in one big paragraph? Or do they want a clear introduction, detail paragraph(s) and conclusion. Short concise sentences? Is it essential to use the correct verb tense most of the time? Or is it OK to be vague about this as long as you get all the relevant information? I’m not asking for your opinion about what is good English. I would like to know what LTTC wants so that I can tell my students what they need to focus on.

11

Why do you say this? It seems to me they are trying to ensure the test measures overall proficiency and is not simply something that can be prepped/crammed for.[/quote]

Sure. But it would be nice to know how they define proficiency. Do they want long complex sentences with lots of big words in one big paragraph? Or do they want a clear introduction, detail paragraph(s) and conclusion. Short concise sentences? Is it essential to use the correct verb tense most of the time? Or is it OK to be vague about this as long as you get all the relevant information? I’m not asking for your opinion about what is good English. I would like to know what LTTC wants so that I can tell my students what they need to focus on.[/quote]

They don’t give any guidelines, so I don’t know what to teach. How many points for coherence and cohesion? How many for grammatical range and accuracy? Or is it all about vocabulary? If the students write something that is a shining example of great English, but communicate the wrong information because they misunderstood what was required, do they get a big fat zero? Or what?

12

[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“MPenguin”]

Yeah, the GEPT is nonsense, [/quote]

Why do you say this? It seems to me they are trying to ensure the test measures overall proficiency and is not simply something that can be prepped/crammed for.

[/quote]

Proficiency tests (of which GEPT has to be one of the very worst examples) are a bad thing for Asia. They promote rote memorization of vocabulary, grammatical patterns and formulaic utterance. They have little relevance to the actual acquisition of language, and they steal time away from the learner that could be spent practising communicative skills, watching movies, reading and listening for pleasure, [having fun in the pub with foreigners] and pro-actively going about the business of language learning.

(Proposition a) If it is true that proficiency tests cannot be prepped and crammed for, the GEPT buxibans and their money-back guarantees are a scam and a hoax. If it is true, many businesspeople, including certain users of this forum, are cheating students and parents in a rather big way.

(Proposition b) If it is true that “proficiency” tests CAN be prepped and crammed for, then they are not actually tests of proficiency at all.

It must be either one or the other. Either test prep is a hoax, or GEPT doesn’t test proficiency. I can’t think of any flaw in that logic.

Personally, I believe (b).

I think that one of the only real steps the LTTC, ETS and the rest can take towards rendering the tests uncrammable/ unpreppable is to maintain a churlish veil of secrecy about what goes on in the examination room. Trying to get even past papers out of LTTC is as blood from a stone, so that the only way buxibans can get the info they need is by sending in mock test takers to spy, and try to memorize the contents. Hence, no note-taking allowed. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

The fact is that in European countries people take tests like IELTS, generally without special preparation, for two reasons. First, they want to pass a university admission or other formal requirement; second, because they want to assure themselves of their own proficiency. “Will I be able to cope”, perhaps, “if I really go to England to study?” I think that makes it more proficiency-like.

That model doesn’t work in parts of Asia, I think. People don’t bother so much about the purpose behind taking the test. They think only about the test and the grade. I have no answer to that.

13

[quote=“Loretta”]Point of order:

“How to grade the paragraph writing?”

:no-no: I go ballistic with students for writing or saying stuff like this. “Teacher, how to spell ‘paragraph’?”

[/quote]

Loretta, “How to grade the paragraph writing?” is perfectly OK as a topic heading, IMHO.

It has something of “throwing hands up in despair” don’t you think?

The student’s “How to spell paragraph” is of course quite wrong. Although personally I don’t correct fossilized errors, as most research has shown that it has no effect. I am pleased that they have shown enough interest to even ask, and I wouldn’t want to stymy that.

EDIT: And I’m sure that “How to” + infinitive is either OK or not OK in GEPT in all cases, and that there is no flexibility over what sounds authentic or idiomatic in a given context.

Oh and L what would you have suggested for a topic name? “How do I grade the p writing?” :no-no: That’s ambiguous, with one reading that makes it sound like a guessing game! “How do you grade the p writing?” :no-no: :no-no: That doesn’t even sound like a request for advice, which is obviously what the OP is hoping for!

14

[quote=“smithsgj”]Loretta, “How to grade the paragraph writing?” is perfectly OK as a topic heading, IMHO.

Oh and L what would you have suggested for a topic name?[/quote]

It is, as you point out, merely a matter of opinion. It’s true that I’m being pedantic and it doesn’t really matter. The full stop at the end, for instance, is optional. You Might Also Choose to Capitalise. But if you put a question mark then you are writing a question that is not a question. You may think it’s OK, but if you get into the habit of thinking it’s OK then people who don’t care to think about the difference between headings and ordinary text will then assume that it’s OK all the time.

So what’s the point of being a teacher? Do you think that it’s OK for students to write ungrammatical questions? Can they neglect to describe past events using the appropriate tenses? Can they write “he have” and get away with it? These errors are “fossilised”, or you could say that they’re down to L1 interference. Personally I feel that if you let people continue to make these mistakes then they will continue to make these mistakes, and they are paying you to teach them how to do better. Making the effort may not have an effect, but not making the effort is an insult to your students. In stead of correcting their errors, which I agree is pointless because it means that they’re not doing any work, why not ask them to do it right? They have learned this shit, but don’t use it because you don’t require them to use it and it’s easier to repeat the same old unchallenging garbage.

IELTS writing task 1 requires the student to describe a graph, map, diagram, or process.

Right: The widget is placed into the doohickey and bevelled vigorously.
Wrong: We put the widget into the doohickey and then we bevel it vigorously.

If you allow students to do what they have always done, despite the fact that its wrong, then they will not pass the test. They are paying you to help them pass the test, and they need your help in correcting their bad habits so that they remember to do what they need to do. That’s your job.

My gripe with GEPT is that LTTC won’t tell anyone what the students need to do to pass the test. You could buy a great book with “GEPT” in big friendly letters on the cover, that really teaches the students how to communicate effectively and well, but then watch in horror as your students fail the test - because there are no official guidelines and the book marketed as being for GEPT is in fact just someone’s opinion. It may be a great book, but LTTC may have other ideas about what is great.

Your analysis of cramming for proficiency tests is spot-on, by the way. You have my complete agreement there, and the bit at the top of this post is merely me being grouchy, so we’re left with the original question:

What do you teach people in order to help them pass the GEPT? Do you teach them good English? Do you correct their errors? What?

15

[quote=“MPenguin”]Looking for any help on the subject.
I’m going to start with the elementary level, but I may also do the intermediate and eventually high-intermediate, so I’m looking for some information on those 3 levels. Any links or insider info about what the criteria for successfully passing this is?

Thanks![/quote]

The GEPT claims to be benchmarked to the CEFR, tou.com.tw/get/e_GET/framework.htm so if you study the can-do statements for each level you will have a guide to what your students should be able to do at that level.

Another tool you can use is the CEF self-assessment checklists such as this one, which corresponds to CEFA2 (GEPT elementary) tou.com.tw/get/e_GET/resourc … ssment.doc

The actual grading criteria are mysterious and arcane documents kept safe in the dusty archives of testing centers, guarded by curses and booby traps. It’s already bad enough that students and teachers are forced into test preparation courses by ignorant parents and money-grubbing dumber school managers. If we gave you the grading criteria, it would only encourage them to force you, the teacher, to be testing the students instead of teaching them.

“improvement comes from supplying communicative and comprehensible input and not from forcing and correcting production” ~ Stephen Krashen

16

Thanks for all the help and the links. Much appreciated.

Loretta, in my opinion my heading was OK. I’m certainly not a teacher on this forum, nor do I allow my students to write nonsensical statements without correcting them. It sounds almost like you are calling my credentials out, but I’ll let it pass.

Thanks again for all the info and links. Now I need help with the listening test (see my other thread in this forum - it’s 2 or 3 down from this one!).

17

That’s, of course, complete nonsense… A 168 page document full of competencies tested by a cheapo written test with ‘gonna’ in it!

‘Benchmarked to the CEF’ means in nine times out of ten that some clown googled it and found a table. ‘Hmm, CEFR is B1… Which means ‘Intermediate’, which means x in IELTS or TOEFL/TOEIC. No, our student have advance!’

18

I actually had trouble sleeping last night because I was so worked up about GEPT. High school students - already weighed down with excessive classes and tests - are being forced to take the pointless GEPT tests so that their “superiors” can get a nice little “hong bao.”

On top of that, I had heard rumours about the crap marking of the test (not to mention the crapness of the test itself), but these rumours were confirmed to me yesterday when I learnt the results of some people I know. All four of the test takers received exactly 80% for their speaking test despite being of quite different ability.

19

[quote=“Charlie Phillips”] The GEPT claims to be benchmarked to the CEFR, tou.com.tw/get/e_GET/framework.htm so if you study the can-do statements for each level you will have a guide to what your students should be able to do at that level.

Another tool you can use is the CEF self-assessment checklists such as this one, which corresponds to CEFA2 (GEPT elementary) tou.com.tw/get/e_GET/resourc … ssment.doc [/quote]

Hmm. What Buttercup says. I’m sure there’s nothing professional about the CEF linking of the GEPT. There’s nothing published on it: LTTC don’t really even say anything at ELT conferences. I suppose there must be such a culture of secrecy at LTTC that they don’t even describe their procedures as well as the test formats and item types. Or maybe they know it’s bad science.

Indeed. Although I think they test plenty on those GEPT courses (like every week in one I had a hand in editing a while back).

[quote]
“improvement comes from supplying communicative and comprehensible input and not from forcing and correcting production” ~ Stephen Krashen[/quote]

:bravo: :bravo: (I do do some non-overt correction though, Loretta, and for writing of course I mark [not correct] their work)

20

[quote=“Loretta”][quote=“smithsgj”]Loretta, “How to grade the paragraph writing?” is perfectly OK as a topic heading, IMHO.

Oh and L what would you have suggested for a topic name?[/quote]

The topic wasn’t about writing paragraphs, it was about grading paragraph writing. The question, in full, that the OP wanted to ask was “How should I grade the paragraph writing?” He’s not telling us how to grade it, he’s asking us, so it’s a question. “How to grade the paragraph writing?” with a question mark is a perfectly well-formed question, and works very well as a heading. For one thing it’s a heading, so it doesn’t need a verb; also it wouldn’t need a verb anyway, I think probably because of ellipsis. Are you seriously saying that you find “But what to do next?” unacceptable?

“How to spell banana?” however is not elliptical. It’s just a plain vanilla tw student error. Which you could choose to correct, recognizing that it won’t have any effect if you do, if you rank grammatical purism above conversational fluency, and above encouraging students to ask language questions on their own initiative rather than stamping on them.