Getting an APRC -- A success story

Legal Visa & Residency
21

[quote=“MilesFromNeihu”]A couple months ago it finally dawned on me that an APRC might be worth the trouble, so I started the process. Kind of too bad it took me so long to figure out that I want this.

I got my No Criminal Record by sending an application to the Indiana State Police along with a set of fingerprints which I did myself. [I now have fingerprinting equipment and tyro (but successful tyro) skills, BTW, in case anyone needs the service. I’m in Neihu.] Sent the result along with translation, and check for US$45 to TECO in Chicago. English and Chinese copies came back duly chopped.

Tomorrow I go back to the Military Hospital in Neihu to get the results of the physical exam I took there last week. Looks like I may have all the paperwork ready by early next week.

My main and best trick for negotiating official protocols is to take my wife Lisa with me. She is really good at getting people to like and respect her, as well as being sweet and patient in dealing with bureaucracy. I’ll try to dress reasonably well, too, of course.

What’s got me worried now is the 2 year window. We got married in August 1995, so we’re going on ten years. And our HuKou is in XinDian, so I’ll be applying through the famed Banqiao office.

Don’t know what’ll happen. Anyway, I aim to give it my best shot.[/quote]

MFN, why oh why are you applying for an APRC, you should be applying fora JFRV, Joining Family Residence Visa, it has all the benefits and less of those stupid restrictions.

22

I’ve asked this several times, including on April 23 in this topic:

From what I understand the main objections are:

  1. It is not really permanent in that you can lose it if you don’t stay here longer than 183 days each year. However, there is an application procedure to allow one to leave for an extended period if needed, so I don’t see the big deal here. (US ‘permanent residents’ have similiar restrictions.)

  2. Those married to an ROC citizen must apply for an OWP to work with an APRC, but don’t need to with an ARC. However, the Employment Services Act does not differentiate between ARC or APRC holders, but only states that residents by marriage to an ROC citizen can work without a permit. I’ve yet to see any official interpretation to the contrary.

  3. It costs $10k and you have to jump through lots of hoops to get it.

  4. If the worst should happen and your spouse dies or divorces you, you can still apply for an APRC if you want. There is no evidence in the law or the interpretations that this is true.

Is there any other reason I’m missing?

23

This is purely hypothetical, but I have another question about the APRC.

When you renew your “permanent” APRC after 10 years, do you still need to show proof of marriage (assuming you qualified based on marriage)? If you have since become divorced or lost your spouse, does that mean that you no longer qualify to renew your APRC?

In other words, does this give you the same problem that a JFRV based ARC person would have for staying in the country, but just delay the problem until the end of those 10 years?

I’m afraid that there may not be an answer to this yet, as the APRC has probably not been around 10 years yet. If anybody does know, though, I’d be interested in finding out. I’m also monitoring this thread to help me decide if the APRC is worth it. I’ve been married about 3 1/2 years now in Taiwan.

24

There are no guidelines or interpretations of the renewal procedures for the APRC that I’ve seen, and since it hasn’t been around for 10 years yet, there’s no precedents to look at. The immigration law says you can lose an APRC only by residing less than 183 days per year without applying for permission, or gross violations of the law or ROC national dignity. One would hope that absent these infractions, the renewal would be a fairly simple procedure, but we won’t know until someone goes through with it. That is a good point, though. I had forgotten about this catch.

25

[quote=“Traveller”]
MFN, why oh why are you applying for an APRC, you should be applying fora JFRV, Joining Family Residence Visa, it has all the benefits and less of those stupid restrictions.[/quote]

Traveller,

Well, partly ignorance. I wasn’t really up on the JFRV till I got your caution and did a search.

Part of the reason I want the APRC is just in case something happens to Lisa, I don’t get the added surprise of “…by the way you have 21 days to exit Taiwan.”

I heard that this happened to some other guy who had a wife-linked ARC, and his wife was considerably younger than mine.

I still think I’ll try for the APRC, though I doubt we’ll be ready for the BIG DAY as soon as next week. Still got to get that Good Guy Certificate from the local police, Record of Entrances and Exits, and get my U.S. Good Guy Certificate certified by BOCA at MOFA.

The travel restrictions don’t bother me. I don’t get out all that much anyway.

I already have an OWP.

Thanks for your interest.

26

Just as a note: It is possible to get an APRC with breaks in your ARC over the five years for marriage or seven years for continous work. I successfully applied under the seven year plan (I am not married to a Taiwanese). I had about three breaks between jobs during the previoius seven years, each break being several months where I was back in Tawian on a visitor visa waiting for the paperwork to go through on the new job with the MOEA. So, yes, it can be done. They tole me “no” several times down at Taipei. One day they said “yes”. It is all about your persistence and patience. I’ve learned the hard way that laws are a joke in Taiwan. You simply need to dig in and have the right attitude. You can get almost anything you want by doing it the Taiwanese way as opposed to tyring to figure out the laws and get some kind of consistency/legitimacy to your claim.

27

We went to the BanQiao office on 23 May.
Mr. Yeh, who processes APRC apps, was in, and he looked over my docs to date. We had the Clear Crim Record from the US, with Chinese translation, both chopped by TECO; the physical exam report, the HuJiTunBen family housing report; the govt tax statements for past 3 yrs.; my passports; my ARC and OWP. He said they were all okay [Since I had the TECO chop on the English original and the Chinese translation, there was no need to get the US CCR approved by by BOCA at MOFA].
He said we still lacked
APRC application form and a couple photos
photocopy of ARC
photocopy of OWP
photocopy of every page of every passport (no need to sign em)
Taiwan certificate of entries and exits
Taiwan Clear Crim Record, which we could apply for when we had all the other stuff ready; no need for an extra trip.

24 May. Called BanQiao office to make sure that Mr. Yeh would be in, set appointment for 3:00 pm.
Showed up with everything, including items lacked the previous day.
Submitted app for Taiwan CCR with NT$250.
Submitted the rest of the pile.
Mr. Yeh generated a couple additional documents concerning my age and the number of days spent in Taiwan in the past 5 yrs. I signed off on them.

There was one minor glithch when Mr. Yeh noticed that the address on the APRC app was NeiHu (Taipei City), but our residency is in XinDian (Taipei County). He had us do a new app with the XinDian address.
He also need another couple photos, which I assume go onto the APRC itself.

Although we said that we’ve been married for nearly 10 yrs, there was no mention of having exceeded the 2 yr eligiblilty limit. (Whew!)

Mr. Yeh returned my passports, my ARC and OWR, and said he’d call when it was time to come back and “bring the next thing.” The Next Thing, Lisa explained later, is the NT$10,000. Mr. Yeh was too shy to mention money directly! Mr. Yeh was quite polite and accommodating throughout. We were out of there in an hour or so.

28

Yes, they don’t make you pay the 10K unless you pass. It is not considered an applicaiton fee that you pay no matter what. Follow up with them. Sometimes, as in my case, they didn’t let me know that I had already been approved. I had to chase them down and make them tell me I was approved.

29

[quote=“tiaoaka”]sorry, I didn’t get online at all this past weekend…
I did give references to the law in the previous posts, but for Brian’s and everybody’s convenience, here are the specific clauses in Chinese (I haven’t got any English translation of the law handy, but anyway, “only the Chinese is official” etc. etc.)(newcomers might wish to note the convenient – in Chinese–law database of the government, law.moj.gov.tw/ This category of laws are found under 內政法規 | 警政目 ).

First, the two year application rule:
“Entry, Exit and Immigration Law” (入出國及移民法), Art. 23, Para. 6:
申請永久居留，應於第一項之居留及居住期間屆滿後二年內申請之。
And also the “Implementing Regulations” of the same law (入出國及移民法施行細則 ) , Art. 40, second sentence:
其申請永久居留，應於本法第二十三條第一項之居留及居住期間屆滿後二年內申
請之；
Both are explicit that application must be made within two nears (二年內) of fulfilling the time requirements in Art. 23, para. 1.

Now, the need to be married for 5 years, as I explained in a previous post, is also basically explicit, but one could be misled by an alternate translation of the law (hence the need not to rely on translations…). Again, Art. 23, first paragraph:
…或居住臺灣地區設有戶籍之國民，其外國籍之配偶、子女在我國合法連續居住五年…
The key bit is the second part (the first part just emphasizes that the Taiwanese spouse/parent must have household registration in Taiwan):
配偶、子女在我國合法連續居住五年
which should be read “a spouse or child who has legally and continuously lived in the country for 5 years…” i.e. that one is already a spouse or child before starting the counting! [/quote]

I disagree that the Chinese means what you say it does.

immigration.gov.tw/aspcode/L … NodeID=269

第 二十三 條 外國人在我國合法連續居留七年， 或居住臺灣地區設有戶籍之國民，其外國籍之配偶、子女在我國合法連續居住五年或該配偶、子女在我國合法居住十年以上，其中有五年每年居住超過一百八十三日，並符合下列要件者，得向主管機關申請永久居留

I see no reference to marriage duration, however I will agree it is drafted in such as way as to give that impression. As a piece of legal drafting it is shite, as is usual for Taiwan, but has to be taken at face value and I don’t see the marriage duration defined. It would have been very easy to define it, and as a matter of legal interpretation I would hold that as the drafters did not take that opportunity they must not have intended the marriage duration to be defined by the clause containing the term “five years”.

Whether we are allowed to guess the drafters intention or not, I still think on the face of it, the text does not define the starting point of the five years as being the day of the marriage.

30

Once you have the APRC, would family members also get one ?
(Not married to Taiwanese)

31

One item I forgot to mention: I submitted my Tax Witholding Statement for last year [Co Jiao Pin Dan] along with a copy of same. Mr. Yeh inspected them and returned the original. I had asked the day before if I should prep any bank or financial docs. Mr. Yeh said no need.

Also submitted copies of the ARC and the OWP along with originals. Originals were returned.

There is a signboard on the wall in the BanQiao office listing the processing times for various protocols. Some things take a few minutes. Some a day or a week. The APRC application takes THREE MONTHS! It is far and away the winner for longest processing time. I hope this means worst case, and most, including ours, will be done well before that.

32

[quote=“Guy like me”]Once you have the APRC, would family members also get one ?
(Not married to Taiwanese)[/quote]

No. However, as with just a plain ARC, you can easily get a JFRV visa for your wife, you as the sponsor, and then go get a regular ARC tied to your ARC/APRC. This is what I did for my Thai wife. The APRC is very specific to the individual. This also goes for work permits. My wife cannot get any open work ability like me as an APRC-holder without going and getting her own work visa, just like if she were not married to me.

33

[quote=“21p”][quote=“Bu Lai En”]I see no reference to marriage duration, however I will agree it is drafted in such as way as to give that impression. As a piece of legal drafting it is shite, as is usual for Taiwan, but has to be taken at face value and I don’t see the marriage duration defined. It would have been very easy to define it, and as a matter of legal interpretation I would hold that as the drafters did not take that opportunity they must not have intended the marriage duration to be defined by the clause containing the term “five years”.

Whether we are allowed to guess the drafters intention or not, I still think on the face of it, the text does not define the starting point of the five years as being the day of the marriage.[/quote][/quote]

I believed the same thing myself, which is why I originally even started the application process myself, having been married not even one year…! And I was therefore stunned when the FAP told me not to bother for that very reason. But upon further checks with various knowledgeable native speakers, as mentioned, it seems that the FAP’s interpretation makes sense to most of them also.

Part of the problem is lumping spouses together with children. Children who lived in Taiwan for 5 years have obviously been born at least five years ago…! To be more clear, they should have separated spouses and children, and specified the marriage duration. But there are lots of places, as Brian notes “as usual” where there are such problems…

I’m still waiting for the “zuoye guiding”, to see if it offers any further clarity on this point. If we did finally get a clear ruling that five years of marriage was not necessary, would they then turn around and tell those who have waited, “you should have applied 2 years after you were eligible”…?

Pinesay’s case is interesting, however, that he got this thing despite clearly not satisfying a requirement, showing once again the wide scope of discretion of the front-line officials…

34

I do not believe that the text of the law says any such thing. Nor does it say that you can never hold a visitor visa during your five or seven year period of legal residence.

However, people tend to take their common sense understanding that the law should restrict the period to five years while married and allow that understanding to guide how they read the words on the page.

Frankly, it would be a loophole, and Taiwan’s bureaucrats tend not to allow loopholes even if they do exist.

35

I think that’s about the clearest summation of the situation: this is a case of poor drafting, which appears to create a loophole, which, as Feiren puts it, the bureaucrats will not allow to exist!

Here, though, you need to check the previous posts in this thread: although the Law itself does not clearly stipulate the gap issue, the Implementing Regulations (Art. 40) are quite explicit about it (too bad they’re not about the marriage duration…). If you’re on the 7-year plan, you may not have any gaps in your ARC. If you are on the 5-yr plan (i.e. you are a spouse/child of a citizen), you may have such gaps.

Incidentally, this indirectly helps to justify their interpretation of the marriage duration. The logic being that one can have more flexibility in one’s visa status because one has a family tie to an ROC citizen. But they still should have spelled it out…

36

Here is Article

本法第二十三條第一項所稱合法連續居留，係指持用外僑居留證之居住期間；所稱合法連續居住，包括合法停留及居留之時間，合併計算。其申請永久居留，應於本法第二十三條第一項之居留及居住期間屆滿後二年內申請之；本法施行前居留或居住期間，得合併計算。

This is the key definition.

合法連續居留，係指持用外僑居留證之居住期間

All it says is that ‘legal continuous residence’ means the period of stay during which you held an ARC. So if you are here on ARC it can count toward your period of legal residence while your days on a visitor visa can’t. It says nothing about ‘legal continuous residence’ starting over simply because you held a visitor’s visa somewhere along the line. Even if it did say that, it would clearly contravene the intent of the law. As you aer probably aware the enforcement regulations can only fill in the technical details. They can’t override or create the law

37

Hummm. Not entirely sure what this means. I had gaps in my ARC over the seven-year plan. I got my APRC … although I’m not sure that had anything to do with anyone’s interpretation of anything. More like it was a function of them being lazy one day … seriously.

38

I didn’t go through all the posts but as I could read in some I’m already over my term of eligibility for APRC, although they told me last year that I wasn’t yet able to apply for it. In Banchiao that was.

I’m married for 8 and a half years and live here for a little longer, but the first 5 years on visitor visa due to circumstances and principles.

I’ve to go back for extention within a few weeks, so what are the rules, what is the law at the moment.

Could/should i ask for extention 1-3 years ARC or apply for APRC?

39

Well, MilesFromNeihu, it’s nearly two months since you submitted your application and accompanying documents, so I’m wondering if you’ve either got the APRC or have run up against any problems?

I am especially interested because my own application has been under processing at the Ministry of the Interior since the end of last month, and my situation is similar to yours in one potentially problematical respect.

40

Have you checked with them recently? It only took them a couple of weeks to process my APRC application … However, they neglected to tell me they were done. After a month, I called them, and they said it was already processed and approved.