So I got caught working at school that wasn’t listed on my ARC. Three weeks ago I got a letter stating that I need to pay a $30,000 fine or I will get deported. So I paid the fine. Then on Friday I got a call (then my boss and I later got letters) telling me that I will be deported in just under 2 weeks.
So will call a lawyer, write an appeal, etc on Monday but given that I am on my way out what will happen when I am being deported? I have no desire to return to Australia but want to work or travel elsewhere. When I exit Taiwan will they put a big ugly stamp DEPORTED in my passport? Is it impossible to then enter other countries with this stamp in my passport? Or will returning to Australia be my only immediate option?
I was told to conveniently ‘lose’ my passport once back in Australia and then obtain a new one. Except it is actually much easier to get a new passport if I already have a current passport. I have done it before. Just never with a DEPORTED stamp.
Incidently, does anyone know of a good immigration lawyer?
Your status will be on the computer system, so losing the stamp doesn’t help you. It will stop you getting access to some other countries but not all. I have a friend who was deported from HK who now lives in the US. I believe you can even return to Taiwan after a specified period.
Would it not make more sense to leave before the deportation comes through? There will be costs involved.
Perhaps. But all the people I know of that have been caught working at a school other than ones they have work permits for have resulted in deportations. AFAIK, the law states that you are liable for a fine and deportation.
To be clear. You can work at schools other than the one listed on your ARC (except kindergartens - foreign teachers are not permitted to work at a kindy under any circumstances), but you need to apply for separate work permits for these schools. Additionally, foreign teachers are not allowed work permits totaling more than 32 hours/wk.
I may be wrong, and if the OP has the cash, it may be worth a shot, or at least a consult with an immigration lawyer, but I don’t think the outcome will end in anything other than deportation.
As to entrance to other countries, I have no idea.
Well the letter was in Chinese so not sure exactly about the wording. As far as I know they didn’t specifically state that I won’t get deported if I do pay the fine. Only that I most certainly will get deported if I don’t pay the fine. So they were at the very least deliberately misleading. Probably to make sure that I would pay the fine.
Quite possibly, but I’ve heard (therefore rumour, not fact) that they don’t let you leave until you pay up anyway, either via your school (wages) or detention. Either way, probably good you paid the fine, because I suspect if you didn’t and somehow got away with it you would never be allowed entry again (unless you paid said fine).
Do you still have the letter, or a copy? If you scanned it and put it up here folks would be able to tell you what it says regarding fine and/or deportation. Also, if you find a lawyer you should definitely show it to them.
I would ask the Foreign Affairs Police when you might be able to come back to Taiwan, just for your information. Then, I would leave Taiwan ASAP. Don’t wait until they stamp some shit on your passport. They are very document-constipated here in Taiwan. If you exit before they stamp you or issue some paper to stamp your passport, then the record of your leaving might actually derail some black listing process, making it easier to come back in a year or two and avoiding a nasty stamp on your passport.
[quote=“sanbah”]I was told to conveniently ‘lose’ my passport once back in Australia and then obtain a new one. Except it is actually much easier to get a new passport if I already have a current passport. I have done it before. Just never with a DEPORTED stamp.
Incidently, does anyone know of a good immigration lawyer?[/quote]
DFAT are now cracking down on those who “conveniently ‘lose’” passports. Of course being deported can mean that MOFA here reports your deportation to the Australian Authorities. All Australian offices then share details, yes it’s all computerized nowadays and the information travels fast than you can.
There are now limits on how many passports you can apply for in a certain time period in Australia now. Even if you are overseas they can issue you a travel document that is valid only for travel to Australia, or has very limited travel.
Maybe you can get lucky and leave early with no deportation stamp in your passport, but don’t assume that going back to Australia and ditching your passport will save you. You could find DFAT will not issue you a passport. They have a right not to issue you a passport, and no, it doesn’t breach your human rights. Passports are legal documents that do not belong to you, even though your name is on it.
I was deported once for reasons I have explained elsewhere. It was a while ago but I am pretty sure I had the stamp in my passport. I’ve never had the slightest trouble entering other countries even for the duration of the passport that had the stamp in it.
As for getting back in that may be difficult. They almost didn’t let me back in and I had a wife here and was deported because of immigration’s errors not my own.
Sanbah, Once you’re out of the island, you can always try to get back in. It does provide a certain entertainement value to some Forumosans.
IMHO, one of the funniest threads on Forumosa (and the post below was given ‘classic post’ status).
[quote=“Satellite TV”][quote=“sanbah”]I was told to conveniently ‘lose’ my passport once back in Australia and then obtain a new one. Except it is actually much easier to get a new passport if I already have a current passport. I have done it before. Just never with a DEPORTED stamp.
Incidently, does anyone know of a good immigration lawyer?[/quote]
DFAT are now cracking down on those who “conveniently ‘lose’” passports. Of course being deported can mean that MOFA here reports your deportation to the Australian Authorities. All Australian offices then share details, yes it’s all computerized nowadays and the information travels fast than you can.
There are now limits on how many passports you can apply for in a certain time period in Australia now. Even if you are overseas they can issue you a travel document that is valid only for travel to Australia, or has very limited travel.
Maybe you can get lucky and leave early with no deportation stamp in your passport, but don’t assume that going back to Australia and ditching your passport will save you. You could find DFAT will not issue you a passport. They have a right not to issue you a passport, and no, it doesn’t breach your human rights. Passports are legal documents that do not belong to you, even though your name is on it.[/quote]
Are you actually suggesting that the Oztralian goviment would refuse a passport to a citizen because they were deported from Taiwan for a work visa violation?
Who did you piss off in order to get caught? Which city, gossips want to know and all.
[quote=“BigJohn”]I would ask the Foreign Affairs Police when you might be able to come back to Taiwan, just for your information. Then, I would leave Taiwan ASAP. Don’t wait until they stamp some shit on your passport. They are very document-constipated here in Taiwan. If you exit before they stamp you or issue some paper to stamp your passport, then the record of your leaving might actually derail some black listing process, making it easier to come back in a year or two and avoiding a nasty stamp on your passport.[/quote]I’d actually bet on this outcome.
No thats not what I wrote. What I wrote [quote]DFAT are now cracking down on those who “conveniently ‘lose’” passports[/quote]
I wrote that if your conveniently lose your passport they can refuse to issue you a new one. Nothing to do with being deported in the first instance. But discarding property that does not belong to you just because you’d like a new document is a criminal offense, although rarely proven. But the Australian Government can refuse to issue a new passport to frequent passport loser offenders.
How hard is it for someone at ACIO to read this post and send the details back to DFAT. Tie that up to the deportation order of the OP being given to ACIO, who then adds to info to the passports records of the OP concerned. Won’t be hard for ACIO to work out who Sanbah is. Then a new passport application from a so called " lost" passport. It isn’t rocket science and how many Australians are likely to be deported in the next 2 or 3 weeks in Taiwan eh?
I am just saying that the OP shouldnt just toss the passport away. The OP can always apply for a new passport by returning the previous one first.
[quote=“Satellite TV”]
How hard is it for someone at ACIO to read this post and send the details back to DFAT. Tie that up to the deportation order of the OP being given to ACIO, who then adds to info to the passports records of the OP concerned. Won’t be hard for ACIO to work out who Sanbah is. Then a new passport application from a so called " lost" passport. It isn’t rocket science and how many Australians are likely to be deported in the next 2 or 3 weeks in Taiwan eh?
I am just saying that the OP shouldnt just toss the passport away. The OP can always apply for a new passport by returning the previous one first.[/quote]
OK, fair enough. But I would surmise that the Australian security services have more important work than tracking dodgy English teachers in Taiwan and their visa woes.
Australian Security services don’t track people who were unfortunate in these circumstances the OP hasnt been convicted of a criminal offense. However passports officers take note and amend records when people have already replaced “lost” travel documents. You can be certain that there is more attention paid to those people. Some people are not honest about how they “lose” their documents so easily.
Some sell them on the black market. Some lose them because of stamps on their passports they’d rather not have other people see.
A few years back I once got a big red stamp in my passport because I overstayed my tourist visa with 2 days. The reason for that was that my flight was canceled (all flights) because of a typhoon. Two days later I checked in at the China Airlines counter and before they gave me anything at all I was told to report first at the Immigration office on the 2F.
They studied my passport carefully, which is filled with in/out/in/out stamps of Taiwan. Silly enough they even asked me why I overstayed. I explained and from them I got that big red stamp in Chinese. Had no idea what it said. Went back to the CA desk and got my ticket. No problem, yet…
One hour after arrival in HK and a coffee I had to fly back to Taiwan again. Checked in and was told I could not board because of that damn stamp. She read the stamp for me which said: “This person has overstayed but was not fined”. Nothing more, nothing less. I had to talk like crazy to get back on my plane and only managed to do so after signing a paper that stated that “I accepted full responsibility for all costs in case I would be denied access to Taiwan.” Weird but when entering Customs in Taoyuan I had no trouble at all and was given 30 days again. After this incident I made sure that the people at the Immigration desk, who gave me that stamp, gave me a statement that said why I got this stamp and why not given a fine. I also got myself a weather report of the day my flight was canceled. Both papers I kept in my passport on the page with the stamp and 3 staples in it.
Later on other occasions when checking in for my flight to Taipei, several times I was told the same shit again (staff from China Airlines, Dragon Air and Cathay). After they had checked my papers I was let through but man, that stamp was a pain in the butt. :bluemad:
I don’t think countries share this information via some computer network. Even criminal records are not immediately available. For example, I believe the only country with whom the US has some reciprocal agreement to to share access to criminal records is Canada. I’ve read of people with DUI’s on their records in the US being turned back at the Canadian border.
As for whether a stamp in your passport about having been deported from one country could affect entry into another, I don’t know but I suspect not. On the other hand, many/most countries ask about criminal convictions on their visa applications, so if you answer truthfully, since your deportation is because you broke the law, then they might deny you entry.
Don’t forget as a last resort you can always change your name; this is a basic right you possess as an Australian citizen. It is surprisingly hassle-free and works a charm. Despite what the scare-mongerers say there is very little sharing of information between governments except for wanted criminals. The stuff about non-issue (actually usually impounding of) passports is true but is only applied in situations where the government in question believes the person is likely to get into further mischief and require repatriation at the expense of the authorities. The UK government does this for example for Brits who get in repeated trouble in Thailand.
I was deported quite some time ago for overstaying my visa. This was the result between some miscommunication with the immigration people. I was also caught for illegally teaching but they dropped that offence. I got the big red stamp and told to leave. I went to Hong Kong to try to get another visa but they didn’t want to give me one because of the red stamp. The Foreign Affairs Police had told me before I left Taiwan to just go to Hong Kong and get another visa. I explained this to the Hong Kong people but they said that I couldn’t get another visa until I got a letter approving my re-entry from the foreign affairs police in Taiwan. They said this would take about a week.
I continued talking to the Hong Kong immigration people and told them that I couldn’t really afford to stay in Hong Kong for a week and what should I do. They told me to just hop on the plane and get a landing visa at the airport. They stated that even though I had the deportation stamp in my passport, I didn’t have the extra stamp that stated I could not return to Taiwan.
I followed their advice and hopped on a plane. I arrived at the Taiwan airport and got a landing visa without much trouble. They were concerned that I didn’t have an onward ticket but they just called up China Airlines and booked a ticket for me so that they would have a record of my reservation (I never had to pay for this flight) and then let me through. I think the fact that I had a copy of my work permit with me and showed it to the airport immigration people helped.
Anyway, I got my landing visa and got back into Taiwan about one day after I was deported. I applied for my ARC and resident visa, took a week holiday and flew to the Philippines to pick it up and never had any trouble.
Of course this was about ten years ago so things may have changed a lot since then.
My friend was suggesting I ‘lose’ the passport AFTER I leave Taiwan, not before. But given the huge amount of hassle it is to obtain a new passport after the other one is lost/stolen I won’t be going down this path. For Australian you can lose your passport 2 or 3 times within a five year period. Each time the lost charge increases exponentially. Much easier to just replace the passport.
Spoke to the Aussy trade office here today. They have as of yet no record of me being deported. This may just be because I haven’t been convicted of anything and am not being escorted to the boarding gate. Or perhaps they will be told 2 days before I am due to go. And yes, they do inform Canberra. Apparently I don’t get any incriminating stamp as it is now on computer. So this seems like a problem for me only with Taiwan and not anywhere else.
Spoke to the Taipei County government again and they are certain that everything is in order. Their procedure is to lie to me. First tell me about the fine. Then deport me.
Thanks for all the help. Will let you know how it all goes.
