# Getting Fired Severance Pay LSA vs LPA **URL:** \ **Category:** Working in Taiwan\ **Tags:** contract\_terminate, social\_security\ **Created:** [February 5, 2018, 8:51am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032 "2018-02-05T08:51:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dondada](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/45deac/32.png) [@dondada](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/dondada)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 8:51am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/1 "2018-02-05T08:51:51Z")
My company is downsizing with about half of the employees getting canned before CNY amongst which is myself. The HR told me they would formally fire me tomorrow and give me the papers to sign at which stage I’m free to leave. I would just like to get as well educated on the laws as quick as possible before I sign anything. In short I am a foreigner on a work ARC. Been working in Taiwan 4+ years on work ARCs and at this company now 2 years + 1 month. How much severance pay am I entitled to? I know that most Taiwanese are now enrolled in the Labor Pension Act (LPA) which gives them a bunch of other benefits but only half severance pay, but it’s my understanding and from seeing my salary slip that as I am a foreigner on a work ARC I do not build up a pension. At least until I get an APRC. Does this mean my severance is calculated according to the Labor Standards Act (LSA). Which is 1 months pay for each year of service. Please can someone post some links to where the official laws are posted. I have been searching the internet but to no avail. Preferably English but Chinese is fine too. Thanks in advance! ---
**Author:** ![tando](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@tando](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tando)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 9:41am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/2 "2018-02-05T09:41:01Z")
I don’t have much time to search specific laws now, but ministry of labor governs labor related things. Chinese sites have more info. English site > **[勞動部全球資訊網英文網](https://english.mol.gov.tw)** > > 勞動部全球資訊網英文網 [https://laws.mol.gov.tw/Eng/index.aspx](https://laws.mol.gov.tw/Eng/index.aspx) Chinese > **[勞動部全球資訊網中文網](https://www.mol.gov.tw)** > > 勞動部全球資訊網中文網 Bureau of Labor Insurance chinese [https://www.bli.gov.tw](https://www.bli.gov.tw) English [https://www.bli.gov.tw/en/sub.aspx?a=gDUWKxaXAOI%3D](https://www.bli.gov.tw/en/sub.aspx?a=gDUWKxaXAOI%3d) ---
**Author:** ![Icon](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/icon/32/189245_2.png) [@Icon](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Icon)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 9:47am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/3 "2018-02-05T09:47:51Z")
Just make sure that you get an extention at NIA for your ARC. You are entitled to at least 6 months as per the new law. This way, you will not lose the 4 years of work you already have and you will only get to work one more year before you can apply for an APRC. ---
**Author:** ![dondada](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/45deac/32.png) [@dondada](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/dondada)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 9:58am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/4 "2018-02-05T09:58:06Z")
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. After about an hour of searching I think I found the English and Chinese version of the LSA here [http://law.moj.gov.tw/Eng/LawClass/LawContent.aspx?PCODE=N0030001](http://law.moj.gov.tw/Eng/LawClass/LawContent.aspx?PCODE=N0030001) This lists the laws and regulations. Things to note is as I have worked more than 1 but less than 3 years they have to give me notice of 20 days. The HR lady said they would pay up to the notice period and it’s up to me if I want to come in or not. So I guess the contract termination will be in 20 days time. As a foreigner on only an ARC there is no way that I could opt-in for the labor pension act right? I just want somehow to prove in Chinese that my work regulations are according to the labor standards act. Also I have accumulated 11 vacation days for this year, but how many are they entitled to pay out. 1/6 of them? As I will only be at the company for 2 months this year. Let’s see. I am sure it will be an interesting conversation tomorrow. Thanks Icon, I am aware of the extension. As soon as I receive the contract termination certificate I will be going to immigration with a letter for extension. My first ARC was issued July 2013 so technically with the 6-month extension I could apply for APRC without having to work but I am sure I will find work before then. ---
**Author:** ![tando](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@tando](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tando)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 10:24am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/5 "2018-02-05T10:24:22Z")
> [@dondada](#): > > I have accumulated 11 vacation days for this year, but how many are they entitled to pay out. 1/6 of them? iirc, you should be paid for 11days. If you have been deducted labor insurance fee, you nigh be eligible for unemployment fee. If you have a time you could check Bureau of Labor Insurance site. labor pension, maybe no. @yyy knows more. ---
**Author:** ![yyy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/yyy/32/12085_2.png) [@yyy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yyy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/6 "2018-02-05T17:19:45Z")
[Labor insurance](http://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAllPara.aspx?PCode=N0050001) (laobao) only covers pregnancy/childbirth, injury/illness/disability, death of the worker or certain family members, and retirement, so it doesn’t apply in a case like this. [Employment insurance](http://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAllPara.aspx?PCode=N0050021) (jiubao) covers unemployment in general. To make things more confusing, the Bureau of Labor Insurance deals with both. :doh: * * * [Labor Pension Act](http://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?PCode=N0030020) Art. 7: > [@](#): > > This Act applies to the persons below who are applicable under the Labor Standards Act, but does not including those whose pension are appropriated in accordance with the Private School Act: > 1.Workers holding ROC citizenship; > 2. **Foreigners,** people of China, Hong Kong or Macao residents **who married ROC nationals having a registered household in the Republic of China, and who have residency status and are permitted to work in Taiwan area;** > 3. **Foreigners,** people of China, Hong Kong or Macao residents **in the preceding subparagraph who have divorced their spouses or whose spouses have passed away, and are permitted in accordance with relevant laws and regulations to continue to reside and work in Taiwan area.** > > ROC nationals and persons referred to in subparagraphs 2 and 3 of the preceding paragraph who satisfy any one of the following statuses may voluntarily make payments and claim for pension in accordance with the Act: > 1.Employers who actually engage in labor work; > 2.Self-employed operators; > 3.Commissioned workers; > 4.Workers not applicable under the Labor Standards Act. Ergo the Labor Pension Act (aka the “new system”) does not apply (for now) to foreigners who have never had Taiwanese spouses. Without the LPA, there is nothing to stop the LSA (aka the “old system”) from applying, **unless** your job is one of the rare ones that was never subject to the LSA in the first place. If you have any doubt about whether or not the LSA applies to you, ask your local labor department or the Ministry of Labor. EIA Art. 5: > [@](#): > > An employed worker over 15 and under 65 years of age and with one of the following statuses is required to join this employment insurance program as an insured person through his employer or the organization to which he or she belongs. > > 1. An ROC national. > 2. **A foreign national,** Mainland Chinese citizen, Hong Kong citizen or Macao citizen **married to an ROC citizen and having acquired legal residency in ROC.** > > An employed worker as described in the preceding paragraph with one of the following statuses shall be ineligible for this insurance program: > > 1. A person who is required by law to join the civil servant and teacher insurance program or military personnel insurance. > 2. A person who is already covered by labor insurance benefits for the elderly or old-age pensions for civil servants and teachers. > 3. A person employed by an employer or organization legally exempt from business registration and business tax or legally exempt from business registration and not required to provide uniform invoices as proof of purchase. > > People with two or more employers shall join this insurance program through one of the employers. Ergo there is no employment insurance for unmarried foreigners at this time. * * * > at this company now 2 years + 1 month. Under the LSA, your seniority (年資) is always rounded up to the next month, and each month is worth 1/12 of a month’s salary, so your severance pay should be just over 2 months. If you have a fixed monthly salary and have not had any change in it for the last six months (counting back from the day on which termination occurs), your “average wage” is simply your monthly salary. 🙂 If you have had a change in the last six months, you need to get out the calculator and possibly note the official interpretations that are only available in Chinese at laws.mol.gov.tw (not the MOJ’s site). Also, under Art. 2 of the LSA, “wage” may include items that are not listed as wage/salary, such as transportation allowance, meal allowance etc. A bonus can also be included as “wage” if it’s of a regular or predetermined nature (except for the standard end of year bonus). The idea is that they’re not allowed to lower your average wage with creative accounting. * * * > as I have worked more than 1 but less than 3 years they have to give me notice of 20 days. The HR lady said they would pay up to the notice period and it’s up to me if I want to come in or not. So I guess the contract termination will be in 20 days time. Do you love your job so much that you want to do it for free _and_ lose the tax-free status of your termination pay? 😲 Explanation: They’re supposed to give notice of the termination 20 days in advance, but if they terminate the contract with less than the minimum notice period, they still need to pay your salary for that period, _and_ if they give you pay in lieu of notice (“termination pay” as it’s sometimes called), that amount gets added to your severance pay as what the National Taxation Bureau calls “separation income”, which is tax-free. 🌈 There’s an official interpretation for this somewhere, but iirc it should be on the MOF’s site and not the MOL’s. So, if you don’t love your job _that_ much, ask them to terminate the contract immediately (stating the current date on the termination letter). * * * There are also some [special rules](http://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/Law/LawSearchResult.aspx?p=Z&t=A1A2B1B2&k1=redundancy) for mass layoffs, but I’ve never looked at them in detail, so I don’t know if there’s anything in there for you. ---
**Author:** ![squall1](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/squall1/32/66053_2.png) [@squall1](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/squall1)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/7 "2018-02-06T02:22:22Z")
> [@yyy](#): > > (aka the “new system”) does not apply (for now) to foreigners who have never had Taiwanese spouses. Without the LPA, there is nothing to stop the LSA (aka the “old system”) from applying, unless your job is one of the rare ones that was never subject to the LSA in the first place. If you have any doubt about whether or not the LSA applies to you, ask your local labor department or the Ministry of Labor. > > EIA Art. 5: For those that do qualify for LPA because they do have or had a Taiwanese spouse, how does the severance pay calculation differ from the LSA? If you know off hand, I would be interested to know. Also, is a married or previously married foreigners able to choose between the LPA and LSA, or are they only given the LPA option? ---
**Author:** ![yyy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/yyy/32/12085_2.png) [@yyy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yyy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/8 "2018-02-06T02:40:38Z")
It’s basically 50% of LSA severance, with the same rules for calculating the average wage but iirc a different rule for rounding and a maximum degree of seniority. I don’t think you get a choice, but I would have to read it again… ---
**Author:** ![squall1](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/squall1/32/66053_2.png) [@squall1](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/squall1)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/9 "2018-02-06T02:50:38Z")
I did just find this: _Article 16 The unemployment benefits shall be 60% of an applicant’s average insured monthly salary in the six-month period right before employment separation and withdrawal from this insurance program, paid for up to six months._ As I understand, I thought LSA was a lump sum payment based to the calculation you have above. LPA appears to be different and paid monthly up to six months or when the applicant gains employment again. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![yyy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/yyy/32/12085_2.png) [@yyy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yyy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 3:00am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/10 "2018-02-06T03:00:11Z")
That’s the Employment Insurance Act. Severance is a lump sum whether it’s LSA or LPA, not to be confused with a pension in either system. ---
**Author:** ![squall1](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/squall1/32/66053_2.png) [@squall1](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/squall1)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 3:04am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/11 "2018-02-06T03:04:53Z")
Sorry for the confusion, I understand and thanks for your help in understanding the complexities here. I assumed severance went away in the LPA, replaced by the benefit I listed above, because I can’t find reference to the actual severance benefit. Admittedly, I’m likely looking in the wrong place. ---
**Author:** ![SuperS54](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/supers54/32/137985_2.png) [@SuperS54](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/SuperS54)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 3:10am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/12 "2018-02-06T03:10:51Z")
> [@dondada](#): > > The HR told me they would formally fire me tomorrow Need to clarify this, are you getting fired or laid off? > [@dondada](#): > > and it’s up to me if I want to come in or not. Make sure the details are clearly written, you don’t want to be suddenly disciplined and fired for not coming in during those 20 days! ---
**Author:** ![yyy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/yyy/32/12085_2.png) [@yyy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yyy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 3:34am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/13 "2018-02-06T03:34:46Z")
LPA Art. 12: > [@](#): > > Workers who are applicable to the pension system of this Act, and whose seniority that is applicable after this Act is terminated by labor contract in accordance with Article 11, the proviso of Article 13, Article 14 and Article 20 of the Labor Standards Act or Article 23 and Article 24 of Protection of Workers Suffering from Occupational Injuries and Diseases Act, shall have their severance pay paid by the employer based on their seniority: an equivalence of half a month of average wage for every full year of employment, and in proportion for employment less than one full year; the foresaid severance shall not exceed more than six months of average wage, and is not applicable to Article 17 of the Labor Standards Act. > > Severance pay calculated pursuant to the preceding paragraph shall be paid within 30 days after the termination of labor contract. > > Workers choosing to continue to be applicable to the pension regulations of the Labor Standards Act shall have their severance paid in accordance with Article 17, Article 55 and Article 84 of the Labor Standards Act. Tl/dr: severance arises from the same situations as in the LSA. Also, it seems the right to choose which system you want only exists if you’ve been with the same employer since 2013, according to Art. 8-1: > [@](#): > > Persons referred to in subparagraphs 2 and 3 of Paragraph 1, Article 7 and workers who have obtained ROC citizenship after July 1, 2010, shall be applicable to the pension system of this Act from the date when the amended articles came into effect on December 31, 2013. However, this shall not apply to those who are hired prior to the enactment of the amended articles and remain working for the same business entity thereafter, and who also notify the employers in writing, within six months from the date of enactment of the amended articles, to continue to be applicable to the pension regulations of the Labor Standards Act. > > Persons in the preceding paragraph who obtained their respective statuses after the enactment of the amended articles shall be applicable to the pension system in this Act from the date said statuses are obtained. However, the proviso in the preceding paragraph shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to those who were hired prior to the enactment of amended articles and remaining for the same business entity thereafter. > > Those who have notified their employers in accordance with the preceding two paragraphs to continue to be applicable to the pension regulation of the Labor Standards Act may not choose to be applicable to the pension system of this Act. > > Workers who are applicable in accordance with Paragraphs 1 and 2 to the pension system of this Act, their seniority prior to the applicability of this Act shall be governed in accordance with Article 11. > > Employers shall file for deposit and payment procedures with the Bureau of Labor Insurance for their workers who are applicable in accordance with Paragraphs 1 and 2 to the pension system of this Act. Filing of such request shall not be later than 15 days from the specified deadline in Paragraphs 1 and 2. ---
**Author:** ![squall1](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/squall1/32/66053_2.png) [@squall1](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/squall1)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/14 "2018-02-06T03:40:27Z")
I heard the choose thing was an option, but sort of dismissed it. Thanks for finding this! Sorry OP for mucking up your thread. ---
**Author:** ![dondada](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/45deac/32.png) [@dondada](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/dondada)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/15 "2018-02-06T15:14:13Z")
Thank you all for pitching in and a special thanks to yyy for such a detailed reply with all of the links. I am sure this will be useful for other people down the line in similar situations. In this case I believe I was being laid off, as more than 50% of the workforce of our company were let go this week. From 30 people to about 10. It was quite an odd day but I have taken the papers to look over one last time with the help of a native to confirm everything. Basically everything yyy said was true and now the severance pay is being calculated according to one month per year worked. Also the 11 vacation days are being paid out in full. Also the 20 day notice period is being paid in full, with me not having to come to the office, all the termination papers and work permit termination is dated today. The odd part was that in the morning I decided to confirm everything one final time. After being redirected to a few departments I reached the New Taipei City Government Labor Affairs Bureau (新北市政府勞工局). There I spoke to the lady who mentioned the same regarding severance. However as I kind of expected when first shown the severance agreement it mentioned only half a months pay per year worked. They said they had called themselves and this was what the same labor office told them. Then while in the room together, we called for a third time the same bureau, each time being connected to a different person. This time the man wasn’t a lawyer and didn’t sound too confident but he advised that the company should adhere to the new rules and I was only entitled to half a months pay per year worked. I said he didn’t sound too sure and I asked the company to check if I had received any pension payments or been enrolled for employment insurance. Then after further checking with multiple departments they could confirm as I was a foreigner I was not eligible for employment insurance but had been receiving pension payments somehow. I urged them to call the labor office again. So the fourth time we call the same number, there was a gentleman who then sided with the law that I was eligible for 1 month per year worked severance and the pension payments were illegal and they should sort it out. Still confused I left the office but the HR later informed me that she contacted a specialised labour lawyer to get to the truth and they finally sided with the one month per year worked. So I will be accepting this severance now and signing all the papers tomorrow and then getting the ARC extension. In this situation although my one time severance pay is better, the LPA appears to be more beneficial in terms of offering employment insurance and pension payments. Oh well just have to wait until I get married in a few months, but let’s hope I will not be going through this any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![yyy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/yyy/32/12085_2.png) [@yyy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yyy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/16 "2018-02-06T17:30:49Z")
Thanks for letting us know how it turned out. 🙂 > [@dondada](#): > > The odd part :rofl: Now this is pathetic. The New Taipei labor department is supposed to be foreigner-friendly. They even provide service in Southeast Asian languages! I guarantee they have faced this issue before. Some people just pretend not to know the rules. Some people are just incompetent. Some people are both. It’s so hard to tell who’s what! 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![ponlaihop](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/ponlaihop/32/102107_2.png) [@ponlaihop](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/ponlaihop)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2023, 4:17am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/17 "2023-03-08T04:17:44Z")
Reviving thread as interested to know what is current situation. What criteria are used to determine whether it’s a half or whole month severance pay per served year? ---
**Author:** ![yyy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/yyy/32/12085_2.png) [@yyy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yyy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 4:51am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-fired-severance-pay-lsa-vs-lpa/167032/18 "2023-03-10T04:51:00Z")
Short answer: whether the Labor Pension Act applies or not. Long answer: see above plus [here](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/pensions-for-foreigners-2020/194304/112). Not sure about more recent developments. :idunno: