Can you posters settle an arguement for us? My g/f and I were talking about the mandatory service for young men in Taiwan. She claims that there are still ways to avoid it, such as lopping off a digit or bulking up. I have heard that those days are gone. Tubby and 4 fingered guys get stuck behind a desk for 2 years these days, don’t they?
Short of playing the 4 month visa run for rich kids with american passports, what other means can a kid avoid the draft?
I have heard of those “other ways” as well but no one that I’ve spoken to would say one way or another. Basically, if you want to avoid the draft, you need to jump every 4 months. That’s the “simplest”.
The conversation came about because one of my g/f/s g/fs has a b/f who is a complete buffoon. So I said, “Don’t worry, he’ll be off to the army soon” and she said, " He is rich, his parents will get him out of it."
I asked “How?”, and the issue is now out there for you fine posters to discuss. The main question I had is the fatty, loppy-off-the-finger options are no longer viable. Or are they?
The conversation came about because one of my g/f/s g/fs has a b/f who is a complete buffoon. So I said, “Don’t worry, he’ll be off to the army soon” and she said, " He is rich, his parents will get him out of it."
I asked “How?”, and the issue is now out there for you fine posters to discuss. The main question I had is the fatty, loppy-off-the-finger options are no longer viable. Or are they? [/quote]
James T-
Thanks for the follow-up.
There are always those who desire the advantages of their country without accepting the responsibility of returning service to the country.
IMO the correct terminology for these individuals is the slang term used for female genitalia.
Many people I’ve spoken to who have served in the military say that the serice here consists of being a slave for 22 months. Literally.
Go separate stinking garbage piles. Go buy lunch for the officers. Go stand guard at a gate for 11 hour shifts (a gate no longer in use!).
I have a feeling that you and I likely have different ideas about the military in general.
But, I ask you as someone who I imagine supports the military, if the military is a corrupt organization full of officers who demand the “troops” do as I say and not as I do, and that these young men aren’t being trained to defend a country in many cases, but to do civic works projects for less than minimum wage, do you still think people wanting to avoid it are c*nts?
By the way, I agree with you that benefiting from a system and not contributing to it is awful. I just wonder if Taiwan’s military is the honorable organization you seem to think it is.
[quote=“rooftop”]Met a guy in Tainan who starved himself to be under the minimum weight requirement!!!
From anecdotal accounts, it seems well-connected, rich parents can arrange for their children to skip military service.[/quote]
They will probably send junior abroad for a few years.
I used to know some guys who purposely gained so much weight they’d get out of service. Once they told me about this, I immediately lost any respect I might have had for them.
It’s like people who overreact when a typhoon might hit and go buy mountains of vegetables.
rooftop -
Thanks for your expansion of this.
I fully concur with your opinion of the corruption level here in Taiwan. Personally, I would also agree that this corruption does extend into some of the military arenas. Not to the extent of the public or local/regional/national political sector. It has been my personal observation that this corruption rarely affects the life of the conscript/draftee here.
As to being subjected to societal levels resembling “servitutde” for 22 months, my response iis this - “Welcome to the real world. Mommy and Daddy aren’t here to wipe your bum. Learn to deal with life.”
If the draftees have to go help flood victims, help rebuild roads, take needed supplies to mountain villages or direct traffic on a busy road because the lights are out, well good for them. Learning humility and service to others is a good thing.
Frankly, and I do not usually care for stereotypes, most of the young males I see and have met here in Taiwan are in need of some real-life experience. The “Little Prince” syndrome is alive and well here.
As for the children of the well-off being able to avoid this drafting, I have seen it and am fully aware that it exists. It is not right and should not happen. But it does. And the powers that be in Taiwan, IMO, should address this. Will they - most probably not.Hell man…its Taiwan.
By the by…I was referring to the P-word. Not the C-word…
At risk of this drifting into something that belongs in International Politics…
In the ROC army at least you won’t be sent off to some foreign country to fight some war you don’t understand the reason for. You can debate whether the service is meaningful or not, but you are doing service directly for your country.
jlick -
A very valid point. ROC Army service is not terribly demanding. Some chose to pursue educational programs, some use it for learning more computer skills and some do diddily squat during their draft period. Just like all military service everywhere. Its what you make of it.
Of course the old standard still applies - “Garbage in - garbage out.”
I doubt anyone who is unwilling to be drafted will take to it really well.
I prefer the educational incentive that some countries have to entice people to voluntarily join the army.
The army will pay for your education, you join the army for a certain extent of time. I find that system works. Tit for tat. Fair and square. Why force people?
Well, I never understood why a society, being specialized to the extend of having specialists for building houses, butchering animals and massage, must have everyone in the people-slaying business.
There are enough guys who really want to do this, so why should I?
The military is a usefull thing, but not necessarily with me in it.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]jlick -
A very valid point. ROC Army service is not terribly demanding. Some chose to pursue educational programs, some use it for learning more computer skills and some do diddily squat during their draft period. Just like all military service everywhere. Its what you make of it.
Of course the old standard still applies - “Garbage in - garbage out.”[/quote]
It’s not necessarly all their choice. I have heard of the draftees spending their time serving as servants in retired officer’s homes. That is not a useful use of draftee’s time. Granted I don’t know if this practice is still going on but I wouldn’t be surprised if it still is going on.
It is entirely possible to avoid military service in Taiwan. I know a guy who did it; an old roommate of my really good friend.
All he did was start seeing a psychiatrist. Each time he went he would cry and talk about the vivd dreams he had of killing his entire family, night after night. He also claimed he was very depressed, suicidial even, and spent all day in the fetal position crying. He eventually convinced the shrink he was nuts and got out of it based on being mentally unfit. He is now in germany doing what he wanted to do: his Ph.D in opera. He will never have to complete military service in Taiwan, even when he returns.
After each appointment he came home with hoards of ativan, valium, various sleeping pills… enough to kill a small horse if he were ever to have taken them as prescribed. Once we looked up one of the pills he was given and it turned out to be Roofies… a drug banned in the US and also known as the date rape drug.
Many people I’ve spoken to who have served in the military say that the serice here consists of being a slave for 22 months. Literally.
[/quote]
Its not 22 months anymore. As of july of this year its down to 18 months (including anyone that discharges after this date)
Have to do that… every once in a while, I’ve never stood guard for 11 hour shifts though… may have happened 2 years ago when things were harder, but not today
Yea, skipping town every 4 months (going to HK or something) would be the easiest way to avoid it. I have a cousin who got around it by going below the minimum weight requirement. I dont think he starved himself, he’s always been a skinny guy. I am not exactly sure what the minimum weight is, but i would assume around 100 lbs or so (of course they do it in kilograms there).
If the rich kids can get out of it, then the poor kids should be able to get out of it. Either that or the rich kids shouldn’t be able to get out of it either. I’d push that angle if I were young, Taiwanese and generations from the silver spoon…
My dad was talking about army service and said that they require you to do a lot of physically unsafe and unreasonable tasks. He didn’t get into specifics but said that army service is generally not good for your physical health.
From what I read here it sounds like army service seems little more then doing some community service for 1 1/2 years. Are there are any “old timers” that can talk about what army service was like during the 60s and 70s?
