So a billion people, dispersed over 3.7 million miles, all sound the same. Chabuduo
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which local people?
There is no single standard for Chinese, and much less is there one single accent that represents even all native speakers of Mandarin, let alone native speakers of another dialect who might as well be native in Mandarin kinda-sorta. Or native speakers of Mandarin who live with those people and absorb their local accents.
Same thing: what’s “sounding like a local in English”? Impossible to say. Really depends on where “local” is and who’s living there and who’s coming in from other places and how much interchange there is with other speakers and… and…
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Maybe I should specify, no “Mandarin as a second language accent”. We could still tell if you’re a native speaker, regardless of your accent. But there’s still ways to fool people into thinking you as a native speaker.
Who cares if you sound like Chinese or Singaporeans or Malaysia or form Taipei or Taichung or an expat. You’re learning a language not writing a paper on dialects. Believe it or not, even with accents we could still tell (to some extent) if you’re learning Mandarin as a second language.
I’ve met French, Italian and Japanese people that sounded like native Mandarin (Taiwan) speakers. The point is, it’s not impossible.
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Yes, that’s so.
But then we also have the questions of “is it worth it” and “is it desirable” to eliminate one’s foreign accent. And really – for most people – the “is it possible” question. Most people aren’t trained in phonetics and they have no clue how to pronounce one sound or another if it’s not in their native language. That’s exactly why the position of the lips/tongue/etc. are just a little off for the foreign language – they tend to start at the position for the most similar sound in a known language and then try to modify (maybe). That causes accent on the sound level (not intonation).
But there are many reasons why NOT to lose a foreign accent in a second or subsequent language. In Chinese it’s not quite such a thing, because in the case of Caucasians or Blacks, it’s fairly obvious in most people’s minds that we aren’t native speakers or in-group members (though that is changing slowly of course, but the numbers are so overwhelming I don’t think Chinese will ever assume someone who looks “foreign” could be Chinese or a native speaker any time soon). But in other languages where one could “pass” easily from a physical viewpoint, sometimes it’s better to have an accent, because perceived group membership is the basis on which others judge actions and words. And sometimes intentions and other things as well.
Personally, I would prefer to be solidly intelligible with some foreign accent to spending a long time trying to eliminate the last vestiges of the influence of all the other languages I speak, and use that time to broaden vocabulary and reinforce correct grammar use (through reading and listening input, I mean, not through studying patterns in a book). No one is likely to mistake me for a native speaker anyway once I make a mistake in usage, grammar, collocations, or whatever that sounds weird (not like the mistakes native speakers make) and certainly not once they see me. I think that’s true for most people.
I think speaking really good Mandarin seems to take a back seat to being mistaken for a native which is not likely to hold up for any length of time in an intensive communication situation, or face to face, for most people. (Yes, yes, you’re an exception, you’re a genius, a savant, you sound just like a native, that’s the exception that proves the rule.)
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I guess ‘getting rid of my accent’ might be better expressed as ‘being able to communicate effectively in every situation that life throws at me’ people struggle to do that in a way even in their native languages.
You summed it up very well. I havent read something so true in a while! Great post!!
To add a little from my experience. When a person has a similar physical look/race (eg many east asians) but have very different languages (eg vietnamese, japanese, korean, cantonese etc) the physical appearance will give you very little wiggle room for error. However the accent, in a way, advertises that mandarin is not your native tongue and the amount of leeway you are awarded for being a foreign speaker is actually very significant. If you are assumed to be local, certain slight slip ups, or local slangs, wont be tollerated compared to if you are known to be of somewhere else. This is, in fact, an INSANE, bonus when doing business, dealing with inlaws or whatever. The forgiveness level of verbal diarrhea is at least 10 fold, probably 100, if they know your werent from where they were from. Probably in any language. I get away with saying a lot of really dumb things because people know im not born here but i atill put in serious effort so its a least respected…albeit laughed at.
Imagine getting in a fight and telling someone F you. Which doesnt translate well here directly. It comes across more “i wish to initiate intercorse with you” haha. Many a fight has been avoided based on such a language calamity and ensuing laughs 
it also helps not to have a big ego…
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When you can speak a foreign language and sound like a native, that’s the shit. We all know it’s true. Too much analysis here.
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This is uncalled for. I think learning different accent is fun. I’m even trying different accents of one language. Just like you could have more interest in vocabulary, people are also allowed to have more interests in accents. It’s actually not that rare to be mistaken as a native speaker. I’ve also met white and black people that are or sound like a native Mandarin speaker. There’s no need to be cynical.
And plus, it’s not like I was always trying to sound like a native speaker. You’re right there are some disadvantages when you sound like a native speaker. I had to constantly tell people to speak slower, use simpler words, I don’t understand them because I’m a foreigner when I was in Japan. I didn’t have enough vocabulary at the time, still they thought I was an expat or something.
But the subject here is “how to get rid of the accent”. I was only trying to be helpful. It’s not like I think everyone should sound like a native.
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I am kinda wondering about if there is an easy fix to go from embarrassing cringe foreigner speak syndrome to a level where you at least don’t manifest as a joke to be openly laughed at due to the blaringly obvious inadequacies of utterances in the Chinestic tongue?
Read out loud and start with using your hands to mimic the tone. Do that until you don’t need to anymore.
Listen to podcasts of native speakers and repeat back sentences as they say them.
Spend a shitload of time with native speakers speaking Chinese.
None of that is easy.
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I am going to order breakfast downstairs now and I’m really tempted to give it a try and see what happens. 
Actually that could be a pretty funny youtube sketch: ‘Locals react to foreigner reading phrases out loud from menus and waving his hands to indicate the tone.’ If I got that going I could build up a nest egg and retire! jokes aside thanks, actually I am mostly not consciously aware of tones at all so this might help me, although it would involve reading, which falls for me into the category of ‘a pain’. But maybe I could change that attitude.
I do that on a daily and ongoing basis - my kids speak native level - but I still have the accent which I think is fine except yesterday I was watching a youtube video of a foreigner speaking Chinese and as I was heartily laughing out loud at his speech and slapping my knee with mirth my eldest pointed out that my accent is like the guys accent in the video. After twenty minutes of arguing I backed him into a corner and browbeat him into conceding that 'maybe, that guys foreigner accent, might be even worse than mine. So that was kind of disheartening. I’m like come on he sounds ridiculous and my kid is rolling his eyes and saying maybe, might final offer. And this is the third incident where the language gods laughed at me in two days. I guess just accepting and embracing being a joke could also be a strategy.
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Well at least you can hear what’s wrong the guys accent. To me that means you’re aware of the tone and its just a matter of remember the correct ones and how they sound together. If you read the menu out loud with your hands make sure to film it! 
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Try this: do an exaggerated impression of a local speaking English with a strong accent. Then try walking it back to something more realistic. Then try walking it back to what you would consider a reasonable accent adjustment goal for that person. Then do an exaggerated impression of a local speaking Mandarin. Then try walking it back to something more realistic. Then compare it to the way you normally speak Mandarin and see if you can find a way in your mind to turn around and walk towards what would be the reasonable compromise for you.
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Another great youtube comedy sketch idea! 
Video 2: ‘Locals react to foreigner walking backwards - waving his arms to indicate the tones - whilst vocally impersonating a Chinese speaker who can’t speak English - but insists on trying: Gooo moorling! Lerry bleasay to reety you!’ The looks on the faces would surely be priceless
Again on a serious note: this sounds pretty good, I am going to try it. Thanks! I think it must indeed be something about building self awareness of the way in which one sounds - versus how the language should actually sound - and aiming to correct for that without going over the top and making it sound even worse by over correcting. Its a tough one, as someone who can’t do accents even in my own native language let alone in a second one
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If you really want to try an easy way to reduce your foreign accent (this is assuming your word choice and grammar/word order are already perfect, otherwise you have other things to work on as well):
Don’t move your bottom jaw.
Chinese speakers can speak Mandarin with their teeth clenched and have it sound normal. You can’t do that with English. If your tones are messed up, just narrow the tone space (no prizes for guessing which foreigner got told that in interpreting school, but it worked, yeah?) That is, don’t exaggerate the tones as much as most foreigners usually do, because they’re thinking about them so much.
But then again, if your word choice and grammar/word order are already perfect, you can speak absolutely monotone Chinese and be understood perfectly. (I’ve seen this during a rating session. The native speakers thought the speaker was okay; the “foreigner” teachers wanted to fail him because while his Mandarin was correct he had no tones at all.)
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This is great thanks. My hovercraft is steadily filling up with eels! The third and best instalment: “Foreigner walks backwards, speaking without opening his mouth, making a conscious effort to not enunciate any tones whilst waving his hands to indicate the what the tones should be.” I could probably incorporate this into some kind of tai chi routine in the park and no one would bat an eye 
Seriously though this is great! Why didn’t I think of this before? I have been -in my own inadequate way ‘speaking Chinese’, but completely forgetting to physically ‘be a Chinese speaker’. This is something I have noticed before in speakers who are multilingual: most typically I have found that their body language facial expressions, physical way of being tends to transform into that of a speaker of that alternative language. I have completely neglected doing this so will definitely give it a try. 
Unfortunately that’s not going to work for me because I don’t do tones at all: After a couple of years when I started learning I made the - to me - radical idea of completely ditching tones and haven’t looked back since. I find that if I am speaking in sentences it doesn’t make any difference. The only time I get messed up is when I have to confirm a single character, like a surname or a number, then I’m snookered and defeated and I hang my head in shame. 
Maybe I should start doing some tones then.
I bet if it’s a common word you hear all the time you’re probably saying the tones correctly without even knowing it.
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Based on my own experience back home i would have to say that nobody is really being mistaken for a local. I can hear who is a native or not back in my home country, without really any trouble so i would imagine the same is true here.
Focusing on your pronunciation is a better use of your time. Mine has improved since i quit class and started using local podcasts to parrot. The material from class was ok but its all very ‘put on’ real people don’t talk like that. There was also a lot of China centric stuff thrown in, such as stressing the first word instead of the second… which i did start using after using that material to practice and got told off afterwards.
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Can you find anyone that will speak to you in Mandarin Chinese on the level? That is the real challenge in Taiwan. If you’ve got that, you’ve won half the battle.
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