I’ve been working for two years now as a part-time translator for a local Buddhist organization. Lately I’ve been thinking about trying to supplement my income by doing some freelance work during my freetime.
I know a few people who frequent this forum are in this line of work so I was wondering how a guy should go about getting set up, eg how to look for clients, agencies, going rate, that sort of stuff. Any suggestions appreciated.
Basically you just need to get your name out in front of the folks who need translation. This requires either figuring out what people in private life might need it, or marketing to the translation agencies in Taiwan or abroad.
One thing to think about is (and remember, I don’t know you and I don’t know what your Chinese background is!) if you’ve been doing solely Buddhist stuff during your whole experience translating, this might be different from the typical commercial job (although a hefty dose of Buddhist attitudes helps a lot in doing some commercial jobs!). Make sure you are equipped to deal with the kind of terminology and usage, as well as English writing styles, you will need.
One hint: (IMHO) buy the “New Century” Chinese-English dictionary from “Jianhong” (on Chongqing S. Road near the train station in Taipei, for one place) as soon as possible as it is probably the most comprehensive dictionary I’ve found to date for general (and some technical) stuff. It’ll get you out of many a problem. Recently I bought another copy in Taipei and was delighted to find it was on sale for something like NT$1300 (usually it’s around $3000). Go directly to their shop (the publisher’s) on Chongqing S. Road if you want to see if the discount is still in effect.
Terry
Thanks for the advice. I’ll check out that dictionary.
I would probably be most suited for things related to the humanities (religions (not just Buddhism), history, poltics, current events). I noticed on Glossika’s website that they mention that they handle academic materials. Do you know any other agencies that might handle such things?
I realize that that’s not a profitable specialization, but I’m not really expecting to get tons of work or quit my day job. Just looking for the occasional assignment to bring in a little extra money and the chance to work with something different than what I see in my daily grind.
I think that Ironlady may be talking about the 21st Century Chinese - English Dictionary, which is a good general dictionary. It is China Chinese, though, published under license from Shanghai Transport and Communications University, so you may not always find Taiwanese mandarin expressions in there.
Regarding agency work, with very few exceptions they pay next to nothing, and mostly a flat rate, not per word. It normally works out to around NT$ .8 - 1 per source word, though. If you can get in touch directly with the end user, you’ll probably be able to get NT$2 - 3 per source word. US or European agencies seem to pay even more than that. I don’t know if the job offer data base here on Oriented is searchable, but I’ve picked up a couple of agencies from ads there, Pristine, Evermore …
There is one called Hong Yuan down in Kung Kuan that does a lot of translation of abstracts and afull academic papers from Taiwan University just across the street from them. They’re OK, but it’s the NT$0.8 variety. You may want to try some museums, they often need English translations for their exhibition catalogs. They’re only allowed to pay NT$1.5 though, government regulations.
Good luck,
Two points:
First, I have not personally worked with Glossika (mostly because they stopped returning my e-mails when I requested that they inform me of their rates before I did “samples” (which, as an experienced translator, I generally do NOT provide, especially if unpaid!) and went through a whole long process. However, I have acquaintances who have nothing good to say about them. Their basic approach is that they “auction off” translation jobs to their translators (well, they offer them via an e-mail list at ridiculous asking prices, high word counts and insane turnarounds.) I would not recommend any beginner start with them, as I have friends in a similar situation who have had very bad experiences, which have then colored their perceptions of what translation work is and how it “should” be done!!
Second, about government rates: the magic word is “editing fee”. Most gov’t jobs have a separate sum of money available for somebody to “check” the job, and usually, using a “ren tou” or something, it’s possible for them to get that money to the translator IF THEY REALLY WANT TO. There is always a creative solution in Taiwan, especially if you don’t demand everything in your own name…
Of course this is all hearsay, I would never accept an editing fee on my own translation work…yeah, that’s right…
Terry
[quote=“ironlady”]
First, I have not personally worked with Glossika (mostly because they stopped returning my e-mails when I requested that they inform me of their rates before I did “samples” (which, as an experienced translator, I generally do NOT provide, especially if unpaid!) and went through a whole long process. However, I have acquaintances who have nothing good to say about them. Their basic approach is that they “auction off” translation jobs to their translators (well, they offer them via an e-mail list at ridiculous asking prices, high word counts and insane turnarounds.) I would not recommend any beginner start with them, as I have friends in a similar situation who have had very bad experiences, which have then colored their perceptions of what translation work is and how it “should” be done !!
Terry[/quote]
Definitely avoid Glossika. It is a completely illegal outfit, and they have cheated several translators that I know out of their money (ie they were never paid!). On top of that, their attitude is atrociously hostile; if you ask any questions of them or anything of the sort, they reply by in a very un-business-like manner (to put it mildly). They’re simply the bottom of the barrel.
(for a good laugh, though, 
get a hold of their ‘translator guidelines’…) 
quote:
Originally posted by LittleIron: (for a good laugh, though, get a hold of their 'translator guidelines'...) [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
I did one for them. No more. Those “guidelines” are a weird read, though.
I’m on the other side: I employ freelancers (Chinese mothertongue mostly, and only profound technical background). I don’t pay exaggerated prices, but I’m not one to rip people off. We pay by the word, word count usually generated in Word or our own TM software. I’m only just getting started, but I have some principles I mean to stick to in my treatment of freelancers (I used to work as freelancer myself), like prompt payment, only well-based criticism (feedback welcome!) etc. But I will always ask for thorough work, good quality and trial translations. Nobody ever refused to do a trial translation, so I usually send them two pages of the same text I give out to most freelancers and ask them to do just one or two paragraphs (some text that has been translated before, not a text we have to deliver as translation, of course). I’m suspicious about those people who tell me they can translate everything from religion to contracts to business reports to technical documentation, and unfortunately, my suspicion usually is right. The more specialized somebody is, the better often his translation.
Here is a website where you can advertise your services as freelancer:
proz.com/
A collegue of mine in Spain told me about it, and it seems to be very big and comprehensive.
Here is another one to check out:
taipei-translation.com.tw
But I don’t know anything about them. For online dictionaries etc, you could check these:
onelook.com
yourdictionary.com/
If you want to stick to religious contexts, maybe you can approach respective associations or university departments and offer your services.
My advice is that you never take on a job that you can not deal with because you don’t get the meaning (or you don’t have the time). Always work thoroughly and double-check everything, especially the numbers (if the money is worth it). Try and solve questions by research on the internet or information from experts instead of just putting something in. Read original English texts on the same subject to grab the right style. Gosh, I sound like my teachers at university 
I wouldn’t advice to accept flat rates. And be careful about changes to the text after you did the translation. Always make sure that only proofed mistakes you did yourself (or possibly special terminology requests) will be corrected for free. All changes made by the authors will have to be paid for. A friend of my, who also does translations sometimes had orders where the whole text was changed after the translation, and the customer expected him to incorporate those changes without additional payment.
Setting up a terminology database might be a good idea. Sorry, don’t know much about formats, we use a special software here (star-transit.com/en/). It’s very good, but it might not make much sense for you to spend a lot of money on software if you only do occasional jobs. I just used to make Excel-lists for source and target language term, Pinyin (or whatever romanization you use - handy for sorting the terms), short examples on context (like sample phrases), field (if it is a special term) and the source of the terminology (in case you want to check it later or proof it to somebody, if the source is reliable). If the subject is very special and the customer has had translations done on the same subject before, you could possibly ask for these translations (including source text, of course, some people seem to think that to judge or compare a translation, the target text is enough) and terminology lists, if any exist. This would also eliminate too much work of adjusting to special terminology requests afterwards.
HTH (and I don’t sound too teacher-like )
Good Luck!
Iris
Lots of good advice here Iris, but I don’t agree about the sample translations. I keep a portfolio of my work, and I’m happy to provide samples. I dislike doing sample translations and almost always turn down any work that requires unless it pays very very well. Just my position on this.
If people offer to send an example out of their portfolio, I never insist on my own text as trial translation. And those texts they send are usually very good. So, nobody ever got dissed because of one of these or refusing to do a sample translation. And when I don’t like the sample translation, I always try to explain why and ask whether they didn’t feel comfortable with the subject or have a different text to offer. But I can’t hand out orders to people that I have never gotten work examples from, can I?
I’m talking about very big and/or very specialized jobs, not the Chinese eyecatcher of a small company’s homepage with the simple content of: “Hi, we’re XX company, please contact us at …”
Iris
Even if it’s a big or specialized job, there is always the danger (frequently! really!) that Translator A, an English native speaker, does a sample, which Unscrupulous Agency B then sends to their client. The client loves the work, of course; then Agency B gives the job to a lower-paid, often non-native-English speaking translator. Translator A, meanwhile has done a free sample which has gained a big contract for Agency B, but obtained nothing for himself.
I find that the agencies (Iris, I don’t think I’ve worked with you, so don’t take this to mean yours! ) that demand samples are often insecure. Few have any principled way of evaluating them; they are compared to some piece of ancient Xeroxed text knocking about in the office. Many years ago I was once asked to do a sample, which I did; the client then sent back the “answer key” and asked me if I thought it was a good translation. The problem was that looking at the “answer key”, it was obvious that the sample I’d been sent was a translation of the key, so I was doing a back-translation of a rather sketchy translation. In these situations, the hoary maxim “run, don’t walk” usually holds.
When you’re getting started, you have to put up with some of this stuff because you’re unknown, have no references (who checks them, by the way? I’ve never heard of anyone actually DOING so!) and no samples to provide. And Iris is right – most newcomers advertise themselves as doing everything, which is a big bad mistake, or take on far more words per day than any seasoned translator would ever dream of doing. Many agencies in Taipei want 5000 words a day out of newbies; they don’t ask this of the experienced translators because a) they won’t work for those companies to begin with, and b) instead of feeling intimidated, they would laugh in the face of anyone who thought a 5,000 word a day turnaround was feasible on some nasty technical subject. If you’re all alone, have no other commitments, a good library and good knowledge of how to use the Internet, you could commit to something like that for a couple of days, then take a few days off to recharge, but that’s not what most agencies in Taipei have in mind.
BTW, as for the ProZ link, in my experience it’s nothing more than a price-cutting mechanism. I personally refuse to shell out US$120 per year to bid against people who are not qualified translators and who are offering US$0.02 per word to do patent translations into English. It might be interesting to see what’s going on, but for real work…?
Just as agencies have to find quality translators, translators have to find quality clients.
My lord, a lot of stuff going into doing translation here. Thanks for all the advise. I am not doing any translation work at all here although I’ve done some sometime ago in the States. It seems like things, among other things, could get really complicated here. Why? :?:
I agree with Terry, although I would say that the bait-and-switch tactic of using an A-grade translator/editor for test translations and then using the cheap, poor translator for the actual case is standard procedure for most local translation agencies, especially the larger ones. They really screw up the whole market with their unscrupulous tactics and poor quality/low price mentality; because of it, many/most Taiwanese who don’t understand translation very well expect a decent translation should be done for maybe 0.5NT/word or so. Try getting something like that out of any quality Western translation company (it would be more like 4.0NT/word)… Translator beware…
My only request for new translators is please don’t accept such ridiculous prices; they are well below the natural supply/demand curve, and make it much harder for everyone else to get a more reasonable wage…
[quote=“ironlady”]Even if it’s a big or specialized job, there is always the danger (frequently! really!) that Translator A, an English native speaker, does a sample, which Unscrupulous Agency B then sends to their client. The client loves the work, of course; then Agency B gives the job to a lower-paid, often non-native-English speaking translator. Translator A, meanwhile has done a free sample which has gained a big contract for Agency B, but obtained nothing for himself.
I find that the agencies (Iris, I don’t think I’ve worked with you, so don’t take this to mean yours! ) that demand samples are often insecure. Few have any principled way of evaluating them; they are compared to some piece of ancient Xeroxed text knocking about in the office. Many years ago I was once asked to do a sample, which I did; the client then sent back the “answer key” and asked me if I thought it was a good translation. The problem was that looking at the “answer key”, it was obvious that the sample I’d been sent was a translation of the key, so I was doing a back-translation of a rather sketchy translation. In these situations, the hoary maxim “run, don’t walk” usually holds.[/quote]
I don’t know whether you’d consider our way of evaluating the trial translation as “principled”. We don’t have a fixed “answer key”, I just have somebody in the office who knows the subject well enough to point out relevant mistakes. It’s harder to judge a text when you just feel uncomfortable with the style but can’t explain why. I personally think judging a translation is the hardest thing to do (mind you, big part of my university graduation was based on exams consisting in written translation, and of course, I did worse than during the whole xx years of studying), and we usually don’t turn a translator down just because we don’t like his style. But if there are technical mistakes, or if the translator clearly left out things because he/she wasn’t working thoroughly, this is a reason to turn him down.
If we show a customer a trial translation for free, this has either been done in-house, or the freelance translator has been paid. We don’t ask translators to do trial translations that we show to customers without paying the translator. And if the translator is good and we get the job, of course, we will chose the translator based on whose translation we got the job. But we will always have a second person to proofread the text and double-check it. Unfortunately, this scheme of quality assessment obviously involves higher translation prices which puts us in a not too good position when we try to convince Taiwanese customers of our service, as they are used to the local cheap and quick translation services. So we do not profit from the low-price, low quality scheme either (please tell me if this sounds too hillarious!).
Also, we don’t employ translators to do translations into anything else than their mother tongue. And up to now, we exclusively do translations into Chinese, not the other way round. So the chance of you working for us are rather small, I’m afraid What are your fields of expert?
[quote=“ironlady”]BTW, as for the ProZ link, in my experience it’s nothing more than a price-cutting mechanism. I personally refuse to shell out US$120 per year to bid against people who are not qualified translators and who are offering US$0.02 per word to do patent translations into English. It might be interesting to see what’s going on, but for real work…?
Just as agencies have to find quality translators, translators have to find quality clients.[/quote]
We haven’t really worked with ProZ link yet, as we are busy with different stuff. I just get all these emails advertising projects, and some of them looked really interesting. I don’t like this bidding thing, either. But I thought it might be an interesting platform for agencies to find freelancers and freelancers to find agents. If you’re a freelancer and you have your own clients, wow, I guess, you’re lucky. We will probably always need reliable freelancers for the translations and try to do the proofreading in-house.
Apart from that, translation isn’t really complicated, I like it a lot and always wanted to do it (though in my present position, I don’t do the translations myself). I just think you make your life as a translator a little easier if you stick to thorough work which includes realistic time schedules, double-checking everything and consistent work through research and the use of terminology databases. And though I know that due to the real situation, this is often impossible, I really hope that I and my employees can keep this up and still have satisfactory and successful cooperation (gosh, I sound like the boss I never wanted to become )
But still, I’m thankful for any kinds of hints!
Iris
Hi Iris,
I’m English mother-tongue and translate from Chinese and Spanish. I concentrate on industrial/technical and medical work, including patents.
On another topic:
What REALLY annoys me about translation agencies is when they send out that e-mail saying “We’ve just updated/changed/rewritten our database of freelancers, and we’d like you to fill out the new forms at such-and-such a web site, regardless of what you currently have on file with us.” My feeling is – they should have admin staff to do this. It’s their job. I have 1000+ agencies on my mailing list, and if I took 10 minutes to update all their databases every week, I’d never have time to translate. Maintaining a database of agencies is MY responsibility, not theirs – maintaining a db of freelancers should be THEIR responsibility, not mine.
They also ask 1,001 questions, most of which have nothing to do with translation. I can’t shoehorn my availability into a set of checkboxes – it varies with my workload and my clients’ needs. How big my hard drive is or what version of Explorer I use is my problem. What dictionaries I own – good Lord, what an archaic question! And how would I fit them all on a line …this…long?
Grrrrr. That’s my rant for the day.
Terry:
As I said, we’re only just getting started, our databases are not quite that big yet
Would you mind my getting in touch with you? Can I drop you an email some time? Or do you want to drop me one? I’d be thankful for some hints and suggestions.
Iris
[quote=“littleiron”][quote=“ironlady”]
First, I have not personally worked with Glossika (mostly because they stopped returning my e-mails when I requested that they inform me of their rates before I did “samples” (which, as an experienced translator, I generally do NOT provide, especially if unpaid!) and went through a whole long process. However, I have acquaintances who have nothing good to say about them. Their basic approach is that they “auction off” translation jobs to their translators (well, they offer them via an e-mail list at ridiculous asking prices, high word counts and insane turnarounds.) I would not recommend any beginner start with them, as I have friends in a similar situation who have had very bad experiences, which have then colored their perceptions of what translation work is and how it “should” be done!!
Terry[/quote]
Definitely avoid Glossika. It is a completely illegal outfit, and they have cheated several translators that I know out of their money (ie they were never paid!). On top of that, their attitude is atrociously hostile; if you ask any questions of them or anything of the sort, they reply by in a very un-business-like manner (to put it mildly). They’re simply the bottom of the barrel.
(for a good laugh, though, get a hold of their ‘translator guidelines’…) [/quote]
i am new and wanna do translation…how can i tell which company is good and which is like this? i visited their web site and except for bad grammar it looks fine.
also what is a “good” turnaround if you say theirs is insane. how much work do i have to do every day to be able to make money as a translator?
Hi,
Everything depends. Ask other translators; they have an excellent idea about which agencies are shady and which are not. There are also many e-mail lists linking translators. The word gets passed very quickly when an agency tries to fool with translators. An agency that does so quickly finds themselves unable to get any experienced translators to work for them, and has to use complete newbies or people with lower quality who will tolerate the conditions the agency sets, or who simply aren’t in contact with the mainstream of the translation world. If an agency tried to shaft me, for example, I would go out of my way to make sure that no one I respected for doing good translation work ever worked for that company again, and I know I’m not alone in this feeling.
As you say, you really can’t tell just by looking at a Web site. On the Internet, no one knows you’re a dog, etc. etc.
As for turnaround: you have to find out how much quality translation you can do in an hour, a day, a week. Don’t be tempted to go beyond that amount; in fact, I usually quote a turnaround that’s a little bit below so that I have some margin for research or problems that might arise.
Asking a translator to do 10,000 words in 1 day is unreasonable. Even 5,000 a day for Chinese work is really very, very high. I never go past 3,000 unless there’s some special reason and the circumstances are right; some people won’t do more than 2,000. However, new translators usually don’t really know their own limits and are so eager to please the agency that they promise the impossible and then fail to deliver; the agency either throws this poor-quality translation onto the market or else gets someone else and gets really mad at the translator. All that trouble could have been avoided had the agency been sufficiently quality-conscious as to allow a reasonable turnaround.
[/quote]
Terry Thatcher:
!朱彬彬(zhu-bin-bin)
[Letter from Glossika to Terry dated Oct. 30]
一。寄件人：姓名：Glossika, Inc. 雅捷企業捨
[address]
二。收件人：Terry Thatcher
[address]
三。副本：明理法律事務所， 陳律師﹑葛律師
[address]
台端於中華民國九十一年四月十八日上午十時五十四分，於台灣登記之網站：流轉世界segue.com.tw 散佈有關雅捷企業社之不實謠言，表示雅捷未合法付稿費﹑欺騙兼職譯者以及慫恿網友勿接受雅捷聘僱工作云云，皆與事實不符。按台端先於二月二十三日以電子郵件應徵雅捷翻譯工作，但因資格不符故未獲聘用，台端從未正式任職於雅捷，針對台端恣意於網路散播不實謠言，之舉，恐有觸犯刑法公然侮辱與誹謗之嫌，請台端於文到三日內提出合法合理之說明，並移除台端於流轉世界之不實言論，同時以公開方式於中國時報﹑聯合報以及英文台北時報頭版以中英文雙語刊登道歉啟事，以免松累。未免口說無憑，特撰此存證信函。
That Recipient did on April 18, 2002, at 10:54 a.m. post to the Taiwan-registered Web site liu2zhuan3 shi4jie4 segue.com.tw untrue statements concerning Glossika, saying that Glossika did not pay translators their due fees, that Glossika deceived translators, and urged Internet users not to take work from Glossika, all of which are untrue. As Recipient applied for work with Glossika on February 23 but [color=red]was not accepted becuase of inappropriate qualifications[/color], Recipient has never worked formally for Glossika, and Recipient’s posting is false. This posting may involve a violation of criminal laws of slander or libel. Recipient must communicate in writing a legal and reasonable explanation within three days of receipt of this letter, and must publish bilingual apologies in English and Chinese on the front page of the China Times, the United Daily News and the English Taipei Times to avoid legal action. This “double-registered Post Office Letter as Evidence” is hereby composed to avoid any misunderstandings caused by a spoken channel.
Dear Terry Thatcher,
As you know, Glossika Inc. and 雅捷企業社 are aware of the messages posted at the website. Glossika and 雅捷 also understand that you relay information and news to the community in a short amount of time, however, we would like to take this chance to write this private message to you (knowing you may or may not broadcast it).
According to correspondence between James Campbell and the owner of that website, it was stated that “Terry Thatcher holds responsibility for this,” however, we have come to a different conclusion since that writing. Based on our lawyers’ observation, it appears that you have been caught between competitors in the translation industry. Glossika and 雅捷 has never had the intent of attacking you, although the letter sent to you last week was because you were considered responsible. It may or may not be true that there is a conspiracy and that you have fallen victim to some attacks between the companies involved. We hope that you are not attacked again and Glossika expresses concern thereto. [color=red]Glossika and 雅捷 understand by your credentials and experience that you are qualified as an excellent translator[/color] and we even have such recommendations in our records to prove that although our records have been destroyed by hackers most likely originating from the website forum (we have also been attacked). We are sorry that we were unable to continue correspondence with you when you sought employment, but these were for other reasons that were irrelevant to your qualifications.
Glossika and 雅捷 has not had the time to check daily updates of the messages on that website due to our daily duties. However, we will check again in a few days for more suggestions from the local community. Glossika and 雅捷 also noted that you removed related messages from the forum you moderate, and we thank you for that action. We leave responsibility to the owner of the website, also a translation company, that has the ability to remove the other libelous remarks from unknown users, even though it is probable this action nor an explanation will happen. We make the assumption that you understand libel, defamation, slander laws and their consequences well and we understand that you have not these intentions.
Glossika and 雅捷 do have all documentation and licenses to conduct business, however since these companies are not publicly listed companies, we retain the right to only display these documents in our offices or to authorities as required. We do business with many high-tech and public listed companies in Taiwan, all of which need to report taxes on the work they outsource. The government also retains copies of all these records.
As you may know, the translation industry is a highly competitive market, and for these reasons Glossika and 雅捷 have taken precautions against competitors trying to acquire information. The competitors may feel they have succeeded in not only disclosing our information, but gaining on our market share. Nevertheless, Glossika and 雅捷 will continue business as before 150%.
Glossika and 雅捷 welcome you to respond to this email address, and we will definitely try to continue correspondence with you as is possible. We apologize first if we are unable to answer your correspondence in a timely matter.
Sincerely,
James Campbell
On behalf of Glossika, Inc. and 雅捷企業社
The following was posted to Oriented on Sunday 11/08/2002:
Terry Thatcher:
I don’t think I really need to comment. Aside from not knowing who or what “Zhu Binbin” is (and what his or her official connection to Glossika is), anyone who can compare the two letters can judge for himself. After receiving the Mike Campbell letter above, I went to Glossika’s office with a friend to visit them and discuss all this, but was rudely received by the guard and (apparently) have subsequently been accused of trespassing. I was not aware that entering a public building to visit a company doing business openly was trespassing. Didn’t touch anything other than the elevator buttons. As for the inflammatory nature of the description of the “intruders”, I leave this to the informed reader to judge as well. And finally, anyone who knows me, is familiar with my general physique and the injury I sustained to my left ankle in July knows that “running” is not an option for me. 