Getting your kid/s to listen and obey you

Taiwan Parenting
1

We’ve got a girl. I’ve heard that at some age little girls fall in love with their daddies (such as me) and grow disobedient to their mommies. I don’t know if that really is true, in general, or not and if so at what age.

At 2.5, our girl seems to enjoy mommy’s company very much, although I believe I’m generally much more successful than mommy is at getting her to listen and obey. Our girl often seems to intentionally rebel against mommy, which infuriates mom (who has much less patience than dad), which only seems to make things worse. But I don’t think the problem is due to it being mother-daughter. I believe it’s because I use a better tone when speaking with the girl.

It’s a subtle art, but here’s how I play it. With difficult issues like getting in and out of hte bath and going to bed, I don’t want to simply request her to do it, because then she’ll simply refuse and go on playing with whatever she’s doing. Nor do I want to demand too strongly for her to do it, because then she may want to rebel against my order. Instead, I tend to tell her very firmly and matter of factly that we’re going to do X now. Not a request, not a harsh demand, but an unhesitating statement of fact. Often I’ll use a playful voice, indicating how much fun it will be to take a bath or go to bed, but that’s secondary. Of primary importance is the fact that we’re going to do it. Period.

My wife has trouble with the above and often ends up arguing with our girl, pleading, getting emotional, yelling, etc, all of which to me seem counterproductive. The girl sees she’s getting a reaction – that she has power over my wife, that she’s winning – so it encourages her resistance. I don’t do that. Also, because I state it so matter of factly, if the girl refuses, I can just pick her up and carry her there and she usually puts up little resistance, because I’ve made it clear there’s no choice on the subject.

Sometimes, when the matter is more serious and/or I encounter resistance I’ll use a deep firm voice as one would use when training a dog, and I find that very effective. There’s no emotion or pleading; it’s just a firm command. The wife has trouble doing that, I believe, and I think that causes problems for her.

How about your family?

2

I can’t recommend this book enough. Please check it out. It made my life as a teacher unbelievably much better and more fulfilled. :wink:

3

Suggest
Ask
Tell
Command
Punish

I usually get it on the first two.
My wife tends to begin with #3 and #4 with little result.

4

i like the choices/consequences approach.

i don’t have kids but i worked in a group home with 8 teenagers for 8 years.

if you choose to disobey, you choose to lose your tv/music/toys/whatever.

you have to follow through though.

i like mt’s method of not making it a request to take a bath, but a statment of fact. that is good.

your ideas sound right that your girl is getting some added attention and power with her interactions with mommy.

this could escalate, so good luck to mommy-keep giving her good examples of what works for you.

her style is different, and that’s ok, but the yelling will only push the two apart.

books do help as stated by stray dog.

good luck

5

Give the child more praise.

6

[quote=“JOHN MOSS”]i like the choices/consequences approach.

i[/quote]

That’s what I use for the “punishment” stage if the suggestion or asking doesn’t work.However it’s a little like negotiating with terrorists so I try to avoid it.
“Ok! if you don’t put your toys away then NO FISH HEAD for dinner!”

7

Or “If you don’t put your toys away, I’ll have to do it, and then I won’t have time to make you fish head for dinner” would be much better, as it is a direct consequence rather than an obvious punishment.

8

I always liked this line from Love & Logic " Ok kids, You get to keep all the toys you put away!" :slight_smile:

9

My boy is 14 now, so we don’t really have these issues. But, we never had them when he was little, either. I think I probably handled things similarly to what you describe above when my boy was little. I said something once and if I was not obeyed, I didn’t ask again… I physically picked the boy up and moved him to where I wanted him… Only had to do that once, maybe twice, ever.

I’ve never understood how a parent can become exasperated and exclaim re his/her 3 year old child, “I just can’t control him/her!”… If you cannot control a 3 year old, the problem is yours.

I only once spanked my boy when he was little, and it was only to get his attention so that I could speak to him and have him listen carefully to me. But that was the exception. I’ve never laid a hand on him otherwise. I wish I hadn’r spanked him, but, I think he has forgiven me. However, there has never been any question as to which of us was/is in charge. Me, in case anyone is wondering.

One thing I tried to do when my boy was small, and now too as he has entered his teens, is to make certain he knows and respects the boundaries. By “respect”, I mean that I want him to understand the reason for his limitations, and we will discuss the same and from time to time tweak them if it seems a reasonable thing to do.

I’m much more a buddy to my boy than my father ever was to me. However, like my father, I have made it clear that I am the boss. We can discuss things, and we do much more as he gets older, but, I make the final decisions. I think that because I frequently listen to and accept his suggestions, he is willing to accept my final decisions that might go against his original wishes.

10

This is soo strange. I was going to start the same type of thread. :astonished: I was out walking my dog in the park when I saw a mother with her son who was crying his ass off. You know that type of crying, hysteria, snot running all over the place, out of breath from screaming. The mother wasn’t doing anything, but standing there, like she was waiting for him to stop. I’ve seen this happen with an old friend.

I get confused in situations like this and personally, that is my worse nightmare for being a parent. I’ve never had a student do this to me. Yet, I see my time with my students as pre parenting training. On one hand, I found my ‘old’ self wanting to spank the child. Then there was the part of me that wished the mother was just holding the child and comforting him. But then that could send or re-enforce that baby behaviour he was displaying.

How do you deal with this yet ensure that you child knows s/he is loved but that isn’t “correct” behaviour.

11

This is a remarkably good description of how one should train a puppy.

12

Puppy… small child… very similar creatures. :wink:

13

[quote]Blackadder: Tell me, do you ever stop shouting and bullying the lower orders?
Wellington: [shouting] NEVER! There’s only one way to win a campaign: shout, shout and shout again.
Blackadder: You don’t think inspired leadership and tactical ability have anything to do with it?
Wellington: [pauses thinking] NO! It’s all down to shouting! [roars] BAAA! [/quote]

My grandfather regarded anyone under 38 as part of the lower orders, and children especially so. It took all my wily tact to even get him to spare a square of his company. And did he know how to bellow…

My point is that it’s all down to a mastery of the appropriate tone of voice. Combined with fine senses of phrasing and timing, it can work wonders. :wink:

BAAA!

14

Or “If you don’t put your toys away, I’ll have to do it, and then I won’t have time to make you fish head for dinner” would be much better, as it is a direct consequence rather than an obvious punishment.[/quote]

I agree; providing they are at an age where their language and reasoning are developed enough to connect it together.

15

Puppy… small child… very similar creatures. :wink:[/quote]

You gave a winky-smiley face there, TM, but I agree with the statement to a certain extent. While I don’t have a puppy, I’m confident that the same principals do apply with training a puppy and a child.

As I mentioned, I use a low, firm, steady voice when giving a serious command to my girl and she gets the point – I am stating a command, not a request, plea, argument, etc., but a command that must be obeyed. So, she usually complies without complaint.

I wonder if women generally have more difficulty getting compliance from small children because their voices may be less capable of being low, firm and steady, and more likely to have some emotion, pleading, wavering quality, which the child immediately sees as a sign of weakness and responds to with refusal/rebellion? Not stating that as a fact (though I believe it’s true in our home), but asking a question.

16

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]
I wonder if women generally have more difficulty getting compliance from small children because their voices may be less capable of being low, firm and steady, and more likely to have some emotion, pleading, wavering quality, which the child immediately sees as a sign of weakness and responds to with refusal/rebellion? Not stating that as a fact (though I believe it’s true in our home), but asking a question.[/quote]
Well, my wife doesn’t get the same level of respect from our dogs that I get. They don’t respond to her verbal cues as well as they do to mine. I believe that it’s precisely because of the reason you describe above. She uses the same words that I use when giving commands, but her intonation is all wrong. Our first child is due this month, so check this thread in a couple of years to see how we compare on getting a human to do what we want. :wink: Thanks for starting this thread; it’s real food for thought for a soon to be parent. :notworthy:

17

We have two phrases that are regularly used in our home since our two girls were about 1 and 4:

“Thank you for letting me know”, and

“Because I’m the mother/father”

The first covers complaints, threats, tantrums and reports of naghtiness by one sister on another. The second covers all “Don’t wanna” situations. Said very clearly and slowly right in the face of whomever doesn’t want to have a bath or eat their peas. We hardly use the second anymore. One other thing we avoid is the “No…no…no…no…OK, Yes.” Undermines any and all other attempts to humanise the young mind.

18

When I was younger there was a saying that “You know you’re in trouble when you get ‘the LOOK’”

It was this look your mom gave you that clearly convey that you were 5 secs from getting an ass whippin if you didn’t behave. I’ve used that look in class. Kids get it really quick and stop. Only the really really spoiled ones(ie. boys) have pushed the limits. But I’ve never touched a child. Just put them out.

19

Funny, I spent 4 years in the military and was raised by a father with military style discipline. However I usually feel no need to use command or orders to get things done.
Even in the military I got alot more done without barking out orders and using a softer approach.
Maybe it has something to do with growing up with an older brother that was a bully and learning how to manipulate in other ways.
So, did any of you spend time in the military or have parents that disciplined you in such a way? How do you think the way you were disciplined influences how you do your children?

20

[quote=“Hongda”]Funny, I spent 4 years in the military and was raised by a father with military style discipline. However I usually feel no need to use command or orders to get things done.
Even in the military I got alot more done without barking out orders and using a softer approach.
Maybe it has something to do with growing up with an older brother that was a bully and learning how to manipulate in other ways.
So, did any of you spend time in the military or have parents that disciplined you in such a way? How do you think the way you were disciplined influences how you do your children?[/quote]

No time in the military for me, but when I speak of giving a command I don’t mean a harsh, abusive, non-sensical, arbitrary demand. I don’t mean bullying and manipulation. Not even close. I mean simply giving firm instructions that it is now time for the child to get into the bathtub, or out of it, or go pee-pee, or put on her shoes, or come to the dinner table, or get ready for bed.

Do you have any children? If so, you probably know that between the age of 2 and 3 they start learning how to control the world. They are no longer totally dependent on mommy and daddy for everything. They can do things by themselves, and not do things. It’s an important stage in their development, but without the firm guiding hand of a parent, the child might choose not to eat, sleep, bathe, brush her teeth, hold your hand when crossing the street, stay away from the hot stove, refrain from playing with delicate non-kid things, etc.

Our girl is polite and well-behaved, but she can be strong-willed at times and want to do things that her parents feel are not proper. Having been fully potty trained and gone through childhood, adolescence, primary school, college, and so forth, unlike her, I think I generally know better than her what is in her best interests. I prefer a soft approach too, Hongda. I prefer to ask her to do X or Y and have her comply voluntarily. But it doesn’t always work that way. Children of her age learn to say “no” and, unless I get her to comply she may choose not to eat her meal or take a bath or brush her teeth or go pee-pee or go to bed, so as her parent it’s my duty to ensure that she does perform those tasks. When I “command” her to do something, it’s not like a drill instructor barking out orders; instead, it’s a firm authoritarian instruction that must be complied with. I don’t believe one can raise a child properly without giving the same.

Incidentally, I have never hit her. I only tell her firmly, when a simple request fails, that she must do X.