I disagree with you here. I don’t think anyone is attacking the Taiwanese belief system. However, doctors are supposed to be well-educated individuals who understand and respect the principles of the scientific process. I for one would be very disturbed if my doctor appeared to believe that supernatural powers could influence the outcome of my medical treatment.
You can hold that view or perhaps think out of the box as it were? Thats why its called a FAITH. A BELIEF.
Personally I think its sad if after we pass there is eternal nothingness? And that all of our existance be it good, bad, or evil, filled with love or hate ultimately makes no difference? I think that would be sad.
This is the world you choose to hold dear? This is the concept that drives you?
I prefer to believe in life after death and that our life here on earth does matter. It does matter to us on a personal level and matters to those who we hold dear in this life as well. I choose to believe that what we do does matter.
Otherwise, what is to prevent us from grabbing all we can and exercising all of our might to please our carnal selves if after all it has no eternal consequence for ANYONE>
P.S. to miko !! BRAVO> I am taking you off my personal ignor list with your post 
I disagree with you here. I don’t think anyone is attacking the Taiwanese belief system. However, doctors are supposed to be well-educated individuals who understand and respect the principles of the scientific process. I for one would be very disturbed if my doctor appeared to believe that supernatural powers could influence the outcome of my medical treatment.[/quote]
Reasons to suspect an attack…
- The irreverent title.
- The word choices.
[quote]Doesn’t mean I have to walk around with my head up my ass for the sake of “culture” and “tradition”.[/quote] Suggestions there that the Tawianese belief system requires one to be blinkered. Blinkered to what exactly?
3) The poster had a liquid breakfast.
Mr Mcgee, do the Taiwanese worship these spirits to pray for them to heal them with supernatural powers? Are these people Dao or Confucian or Buddhists? Are they praying to ghosts or to Gods? Cannot a person believe in ghosts, Gods, and science? Would it matter to you if your doctor smoked? So many things here yet all I really see in the OP is a tipsy provocateur who should show more respect to the culture he is living in.
Tommy, how did you see my post if you have me on ignore?
I disagree with you here. I don’t think anyone is attacking the Taiwanese belief system. However, doctors are supposed to be well-educated individuals who understand and respect the principles of the scientific process. I for one would be very disturbed if my doctor appeared to believe that supernatural powers could influence the outcome of my medical treatment.[/quote]
Reasons to suspect an attack…
- The irreverent title.
- The word choices.
[quote]Doesn’t mean I have to walk around with my head up my ass for the sake of “culture” and “tradition”.[/quote] Suggestions there that the Tawianese belief system requires one to be blinkered. Blinkered to what exactly?
3) The poster had a liquid breakfast.
Mr Mcgee, do the Taiwanese worship these spirits to pray for them to heal them with supernatural powers? Are these people Dao or Confucian or Buddhists? Are they praying to ghosts or to Gods? Cannot a person believe in ghosts, Gods, and science? Would it matter to you if your doctor smoked? So many things here yet all I really see in the OP is a tipsy provocateur who should show more respect to the culture he is living in.
Tommy, how did you see my post if you have me on ignore?[/quote]
because I do what bcup does, have a buncha people on ignor officially but always opens their posts??? wicked i know.
this way, we dont have to answer a post if we dont want to, no obligation? but we could if we wanted to? a way to have your cake and eat it too. I explained this on a separate thread, which no one has commented on.
bcup has me on ignor and then opens up my postings and blasts away as she fits. Merge does the same with my posts i suspect.
such is the skullduggery (sic) that exists on this forum
OOO sweet! We are all so respectful of other peoples’ traditions. Mike, nice to see you have been assimilated into this wonderful culture that condones the wanton abuse of animals, beatings and humiliation of pre-schoolers, depletion of all natural resources, total disregard for the environment, etc. Just because I live here (and btw I actually love living here) does not mean that I must blindly accept or respect the vile injustices and supersitions of my “hosts”.
The original post was simply asking to what extent superstition and religion permeates Taiwanese society, and why educated “scientists” buy into it. Only since Tommy hijacked the thread with his inane, inarticulate ramblings about fairies and goblins has it gone off on a tangent. And how is the title irreverent? It was fun sounding in order to draw attention to the thread. Have you seen how many views it’s had, despite it being cryptic? Also, the fact that I had a liquid breakfast is irrelevant. It sounds to me that some posters here smoked their breakfast.
Let’s stick to the topic, shall we?
[quote=“jimipresley”]OOO sweet! We are all so respectful of other peoples’ traditions. Mike, nice to see you have been assimilated into this wonderful culture that condones the wanton abuse of animals, beatings and humiliation of pre-schoolers, depletion of all natural resources, total disregard for the environment, etc. Just because I live here (and btw I actually love living here) does not mean that I must blindly accept or respect the vile injustices and supersitions of my “hosts”.
The original post was simply asking to what extent superstition and religion permeates Taiwanese society, and why educated “scientists” buy into it. Only since Tommy hijacked the thread with his inane, inarticulate ramblings about fairies and goblins has it gone off on a tangent. The fact that I had a liquid breakfast is irrelevant. It sounds to me that some posters here smoked their breakfast.
Let’s stick to the topic, shall we?[/quote]
Sir do not assume that I wear rose tinted glasses vis a vis Taiwan. Your op has nothing to do with vile injustices, so please heed your own advice and stick to the topic.
Superstition and religion are not anathema to science. Science has come from the need to quantify the world in human terms. Science should be greatful to religion and superstition for giving it so many platforms to work from. The difference between science and religion is that science can easily be disproved whereas religion cannot. Put that in a shot glass and drink it.
I for one feel fuzzy and warm that religion is still alive and kicking in Taiwan.
My point exactly. Science can be disproved because it’s real. You cannot disprove something which doesn’t exist.
Actually, you can, if the assumption of existence leads to a contradiction. Thus, a highest prime number can be proven not to exist, as can a square triangle.
Many disproofs of god rely on arguments leading to a contradiction: such as “Assume God exists; further assume that this God has two properties: omniscience and omnipotence.” Then go to show that these two properties are contradictory.
Should i move this to Religion and Spirituality then?
I still don’t get where the macaroni comes into it.
I thought this was about ghosts in the marconi and not knowing what or who marconi was did the predictable thing and read the last post, repsonding in an adult manner sad really, etc.
The reason I didn’t originally post it under “religion and spirituality” was because I didn’t want it to become a religious debate. It’s a sociological topic, and hence more fitting under “living in Taiwan”. Oh, and I wanted to entitle it “Ghosts in the machine”, but thought that was a bit crap. Too lazy to find a fitting word that rhymed with machine, I merely took the first three letters, and hey presto! Macaroni. Yum!
Giuseppe Macaroni was that Italian radio engineer who invented pasta, wasn’t he?
No, that was Spaghetti Westoni.
[quote=“Douglas Adams’ Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy”]The argument goes something like this: “I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.”
“But,” says Man, “the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don’t. QED”
“Oh dear,” says God, “I hadn’t thought of that,” and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.[/quote]
I’ve wondered a bit at the the paper “money”-burning folks at the curb each month. I didn’t expect to see it after Ghost Month, and there are admittedly fewer of them… But the lackluster way most people do it often seems to fall into the category of “meh, why not? Can’t hurt…” moreso than legitimate religious belief. I link it to the temples festooned w/gaudy Christmas lights & with stacks of food and junk scattered all over the place. Not exactly reverent presentation, especially compared to similar temples in Japan, Korea, etc…
…Could also be that those doctors want to appeal to the customers passing by who might otherwise visit the traditional medicine shop for a bit 'o powdered sea horse & tiger penis… Showing appreciation for traditional ideas by burning a wad of yellow paper might just bring in more business after all, even if the “spirits/gods” have nothing to do with it…
In Taiwan it’s more about culture than religion. Also the culture of Taiwan is still farmer based and made of disparate groups of immigrants from different time periods who have never been controlled very well or influenced by an organised government in their own beliefs, very different than Shinto in Japan for example. Basically they just believe what they like and go along with what the neighbours, family or community believes. That’s what helps to make Taiwan what it is. It’s really nice in a way because I have never ever seen anybody attacking anybody else’s religion in Taiwan…that’s something very unusual worldwide.
As for local spiritual-cultural-religious customs, it’s annoying (when listening to banging bells at 3 in the morning or burning ashes wafting into your house,mother in laws telling you dates to do something or other) but interesting (sword fighting, mystics, drunken Gods, GongGuan and Buddha together, cool temples) at the same time.
I disagree with you here. I don’t think anyone is attacking the Taiwanese belief system. However, doctors are supposed to be well-educated individuals who understand and respect the principles of the scientific process. I for one would be very disturbed if my doctor appeared to believe that supernatural powers could influence the outcome of my medical treatment.[/quote]
I know many doctors in the west with more extreme views, believe in heaven and hell for example, you guys need to look at it the other way around to give it perspective. It’s also NEVER been my experience that the personal beliefs of doctros impinge on their treatment recommendations.
Hmm. Good point. There are a few Western doctors, philosophers and scientists who actually DO believe in god. But I think that virtually every Taiwanese professional is still steeped in superstition, whereas in the West the vast majority aren’t.
Drinking again huh. A few! There are possibly 150 [color=#FF00BF]million[/color] Christians in America alone. I imagine more than a few of those are doctors and scientists.
Smoking again huh? I cannot imagine that more than a few scientists believe in holy or unholy ghosts. I think it’s rare. I’m not speaking about the USA of course. Metaphysics is on the decline in Europe and all “Western countries”.
I bet they still celebrate Christmas, though.
It’s Hallow’een and Guy Fawkes’ here in yingguo. Not many people taking those two literally, but still burning stuff, blowing stuff up, eating stuff, etc.