Intolerance is as important as tolerance.
There are certainly things around that we can’t explain or have no logical reason for being.
Many people label these things as ghosts or spirits which they may well be. Perhaps they are things which are out of our realm of cognition.
To dismiss the presence of ghosts off-hand is the same as dismissing the presence of life off-hand. We are all made up of chemicals and metals - the same things as everything around us which makes up our world. But we are also made up of something which controls all these things and puts them into a living being with a conscience and thought. We don’t really know what this something is.
This in itself would seem impossible, but it is something we know to be true. Why would the presence of a “life force” without a physical body be so hard to comprehend?
[quote=“Dangermouse”]There are certainly things around that we can’t explain or have no logical reason for being.
Many people label these things as ghosts or spirits which they may well be. Perhaps they are things which are out of our realm of cognition.
To dismiss the presence of ghosts off-hand is the same as dismissing the presence of life off-hand. We are all made up of chemicals and metals - the same things as everything around us which makes up our world. But we are also made up of something which controls all these things and puts them into a living being with a conscience and thought. We don’t really know what this something is.
This in itself would seem impossible, but it is something we know to be true. Why would the presence of a “life force” without a physical body be so hard to comprehend?[/quote]
When A+B=C and you don’t know B, can’t find, explain or produce B the untrained mind will fill B in with whatever there is available ; spirit, ET, Angels, demons, the little people etc.
This suposedly supports the existence of intelligent life on other planets:
The Drake equation states that:
where:N=R*xfpxnexflxfixfcxl
N is the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which we might expect to be able to communicate at any given time
and
R* is the rate of star formation in our galaxy
fp is the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne is average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fl is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life
fi is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
fc is the fraction of the above that are willing and able to communicate
L is the expected lifetime of such a civilization
I took this dude’s class and I’m not sure I believe him or maybe the Drake equation is an elaborate attempt to grasp at “B”.
Hallucinated plenty of things during my life, had conversations with things and people who weren’t really there, this was either from:
Extreme exhaustion, high childhood fevers, LSD, sniffing glue while drinking Jaggermeister.
Ghosts don’t exist. Show me an equation proving their existence, an experiment or an interview with a ghost etc.
Zero-zip, thousands of years of human existence and not one bit of proof.
Pass me the glue I’m late for church.
We can’t explain life, and I guess we can’t prove life either. How do I know the world around me is not one big imagined entity?
OK - maybe going a bit too far there, but we still don’t know what life is or what makes up consciousness - we just don’t know what is. We know it is there but we can’t prove it is there because we can’t see it, touch it, smell it or even comprehend it.
So we have something as far fetched and unlikely as consciousness and yet ghosts are dismissed.
Cogito,Cogito ergo cogito, cogito ergo sum
I think, (that) I think therefore I think that I think I am.
What do you think?
Wait, you can’t prove that we are thinking either.
While we are at it, if The Chief drunkenly falls down a flight of stairs and pees himself and no one is there to see it, did it
actually happen?
It is what it is and it is what you see.
Do you see ghosts? No.
I’m not saying ghosts do or don’t exist. I’m saying that those two dope headed council flat dwellers are just spackers, and there ain’t no ghost in their flat.
It’s this one thing thats got me trippin.
[quote=“Dangermouse”]There are certainly things around that we can’t explain or have no logical reason for being.
Many people label these things as ghosts or spirits which they may well be. Perhaps they are things which are out of our realm of cognition.
To dismiss the presence of ghosts off-hand is the same as dismissing the presence of life off-hand. We are all made up of chemicals and metals - the same things as everything around us which makes up our world. But we are also made up of something which controls all these things and puts them into a living being with a conscience and thought. We don’t really know what this something is.
This in itself would seem impossible, but it is something we know to be true. Why would the presence of a “life force” without a physical body be so hard to comprehend?[/quote]
Are you sure about that? What is that ‘something’? God? The Laws of Physics?
Anyhoo, people who claim that things like ghosts exist have always been in a good situation. In general people suck at logic. And it’s next to impossible to prove that something which doesn’t exist does not exist. (In deductive logic it’s a bit easier, since you can demonstrate a contradiction [A and not-A]. Try to demonstrate a phyisical contradiction in the real world.) So we are left with that lingering doubt that something such as ghosts could exist. And that’s just plain silly.
I’m pretty sure of some things–that Bubba don’t know Latin, for starters. 
There are a fair number of books out now arguing that humans have a natural tendency to see “niktomorphs”–shapes in the dark, of things that probably aren’t there–and that this has or had evolutionary benefits (not getting eaten by the monster that is there). The fact that humans all over the world construct elaborate rituals and taboos around these invisibles is very striking–we naturally seem to think of ourselves as being in social relationships with them (whether good or bad) as we are with one another.
It’s interesting that I seem to naturally regard God as more plausible than gods or ghosts, which in turn are more plausible than fairies or leprechaun. Sheer prejudice on my part, I suppose. I say this as someone who has experienced a ghost (but am skeptical enough to remember that people think they have experienced all sorts of things that they didn’t really).
So there are self-styled “ghostbusters.” They don’t seem to be part of the mainstream, though. I’ve never heard of anyone patronizing one, or for that matter seen one of their ads. Not like fortune-tellers, who are all over the place. Something about ghosts must discourage people from these “easy” solutions.
[quote=“igorveni”][quote=“Screaming Jesus”]Really? Who are you talking about–the Taoists?
I’ve never heard of anybody sending for a ghostbuster. They all seem to think they need to keep on putting out trays of food every year. (Appeasement!)[/quote]
I don’t know if they are Taoist or what, all I know is there are a few groups (religious) who take care of these kind of problems for people.[/quote]
Yes I know one Chinese ghost buster. He goes into a trance when he excorcises the evil ghosts. I’ve seen him doing his excorcising.
The Taiwanese are very keen on Quija boards. I was surprised how similar their Quija boards are to the Western ones. I presumed that they had just taken one of our “western” ideas and adapted it. Then when doing a little a bit of basic research found that the first references to “Quija type boards” were in China.
Quija boards are good fun, I have joined in here and back home in some Quija board seances.
Here is a link for anyone that wants to know exactly what a Quija board is. You could add it to the fun and games section lol Highly recommended.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija
What is consciousness? What is it made of?
No-one knows, but we know it exists.
[quote]It is what it is and it is what you see.
Do you see ghosts? No.[/quote]
Do you see the space that makes up an atom which electrons and neutrons and protons pass through?
No - not even scientists can. But it exists.
It is also impossible that an individual proton and and electron can appear at an infinite number of places inside the shell of an atom at the same time. But they do.
Start reading about quantum physics and you’ll realise that the probability of ghosts roaming the earth is far more likely that what happens in reality which we have already proved.
ghosts exist my friend. iv seen them on 3 occasions in taiwan and once here in the usa :help: 
VERY VERY SCARY
I only know that two different dogs cannot occupy the same space at the same time.
That’s about all I need to know, too.
[quote=“Screaming Jesus”]
So there are self-styled “ghostbusters.”… I’ve never heard of anyone patronizing one.[/quote]
oh, they are very easy to patronize. people were probably just being civil in front of you.
They’re looking FINE, TM!
[quote=“TomHill”]My friends neighbour was in her bedroom yesterday and when she went to pull open the door (which was unlocked) she found that she couldn’t open it. It was as if it were locked. She panicked and called her mother. Her mother pushed the door open with ease.
NOW they are saying they have a ghost there. NOW they are saying that sometimes objects get moved about and they can’t explain the objects new location. NOW they are saying that an old lady died there 15 years ago.
TOM thinks they are just massive massive idiots who a) can’t open doors and b) don’t remember that they have moved things themselves.
But what do YOU think?[/quote]
me think it is spooky. As much spooky as the ghost house I left behind me in Shilin.
Had the same thing. Wanted to go in my bedroom, door was locked from inside and no one was there. The lock was checked and was Ok. it freaked me out. The plants we had all died, there were sounds which could not be identified and so on.
later we heard, after moving out that no taiwanese ever lived in that house in the last 15 years… after the neighbour, a famous Taiwanese artis passed away in what seemed a suspicious way.
no, I never saw a ghost, but yes, they are out ther in the twilight zone for sure.
i like this topic.
My best ghost stories here are:
-
I was gonna go swimming in a river in south Taiwan with some friends and a crazy old no-teeth-from-betel-nut lady came out of a farmhouse and berated us cuz it was Ghost Month and the ghosts would be able to see us through the water from hell, grab our ankles and drag us under. Swimming trip canceled.
-
I found a nice gold ring (for a man) on the ground and kept it, but my (ex-)coworkers all freaked out, saying a female ghost left it for me and if I put it on, I’d be married to her and she would curse all my lovers.
-
Currently, when I work overtime, the lights in the bathrooms are turned off. My current coworkers will not go into the bathroom alone (all of them are female) because of ghosts (which only appear when the lights are off i guess). So if one has to go, she’ll drag another with her, and the second one is expected to sing (!!!) while sitting in the other stall so the first one knows she’s still alive. I’ve heard the singing.
Gold!
The intersting thing is that there is more than 10,000 years of man thinking of himself as a spirit, soul independant of his body, and only a little bit over 100 years of man thinking of himself as an animal or mud, thanks to Darwin, Wundt and the like.
Ghosts on a Plane
Fenlander, how many exorcists do you suppose there are in Taiwan? I’m wondering how popular this is as a solution.
Chinese sects have long used a form of “literary” (as opposed to martial) divination in which the possessed medium writes while entranced. Sometimes they use brush and ink, sometimes a “phoenix basket” and sand tray. Western planchettes or “ouija boards” are not really suitable for Chinese writing, unless the ghost happens to know some romanization system.