[Glossika] Post directed at Glossika and/or interested parti


#1

[Original Title: “Post directed at Glossika and/or interested parties” – renamed by gus on 1 Dec 02]

As far as I am concerned, nothing has officially happened “between” Glossika and myself except as reflected in the content of two letters which were sent to me through official channels: the first letter from “Glossika Inc.” (the official Post Office Letter Providing Written Evidence) dated 10/30/02, and the letter, on law office stationery, from Glossika’s erstwhile attorneys dated 11/07/02 stating that they would not handle this matter. Other events occurring on or around 10/30/02 may or may not be added to this list as evidence is collected.

For the information of those parties interested, I have not called or caused the police or other authorities to raid, visit, investigate or harass Glossika or the plethora of people who seem to be involved with it, nor do I have plans to do so. [color=red]Whether or not I bring action in the matter of false accusations of being in business is a separate matter, as Glossika has to date protested its innocence in that matter; however, that matter may or may not be pursued using the proper channels and authorities.[/color]

[color=red]Other than Post Office Letters Providing Written Evidence, no communications, including but not limited to communications in the form of [/color][color=blue]e-mails[/color][color=red], phone calls, [/color][color=blue]bbs posts[/color][color=red], meetings, psychic communications, dead-drop messages, rumors, made-for-TV movies, skywriting, graffiti, long looks, videotapes, commercial broadcasts, etc. will be accepted as official communication between the parties. The sole exception is apology statements published bilingually on the front page of the Central Daily News, China Times and English-language Taipei Times, which shall be considered official.[/color]

By all means, however, do keep posting if you wish. It seems to amuse a great many people.


#2

I’m probably going to regret this later but here goes.

Ironlady,
The attitude and nature of Glossika have been made clear and yours and Albert’s intitial posts about them were informative and IMO appropriate. I have nothing against reporting what you did at the beginning. However, you took this too far.

You basically tried and convicted this company in a forum that you (at least partially) control. I have a feeling that they probably started spamming the board because their replies to your accusations were being erased.

How did you expect them to react to your own personal jihad against them? You seem to know this company very well. You should have been able to anticipate their response.

And what about “innocently” going down to their offices? You are obviously in a dispute with these people. A dispute that belongs in court, not on Segue.

I hate to say this because I’ve enjoyed your posts in the past. And I was going to not say anything until I saw that you started another thread about this, even after Gus warned he’d ban people for inflamatory posts about Glossika. In short, I think that you’ve shown some really questionable judgement lately, especially as a moderator.

IMHO, you should let this go.


#3

Er, ahem…did you [color=red]read [/color]the preceding post? It was addressed to “interested parties”, under which aegis it doesn’t seem as though you really qualify…

The point is very simple: posts on this or any other bbs, e-mails, etc. do not constitute official communications. [color=red]The new thread is not intended to be “inflammatory” – in fact, quite the opposite, it is intended to end this drivel[/color], and serve notice that I am not playing along any more. If I didn’t start a new thread, it would get lost.

If Glossika has some problem with me (and you may believe what you like about anything preceding and follow the characterization of events of whomever you choose), [color=red]they can bloody well communicate with me through official channels[/color] (i.e., in writing through registered Post Office documents). [color=red]Else, leave me and all the other freelancers alone.[/color]

I have tried to solve their “problem” in an amicable way (i.e., going over there to talk to them after receiving James’ polite e-mail). However, at this point, all bets are off. If you or anyone has anything to say, go to the Post Office, write it out, pay your NT$200 or whatever it is, and mail it to me. End of discussion. Post away if you like. I’ve got other things to do.

And, btw, [color=blue]guess I missed the part about how being a moderator somehow means that I am suppose to just sit back and take abuse[/color]?? If that’s the case, you are more than welcome to take over my “position” at Segue. Maybe they’ll double the salary for you – oh, shucks, it would still be zero, wouldn’t it?


#4

Chessmen71,
I think the purpose of a forum is to discuss. To have a platform. Whether you like what is being said or not on the platform , I defend the right for people to say it. However , spamming forums is BAD. I defend you right to post the above post.

[quote] You seem to know this company very well. You should have been able to anticipate their response.
[/quote]

I think it is YOU who went over the line. I think ironlady has a right to say what she wants to say without have to censor herself because of an “anticipated response”. To NOT say something because of a “anticipated response” is self censorship , pure and simple.

IMHO, your way is to let a bully in the playground do whatever she/he wants , to whomever he/she wants and not say a think because the bully my get upset.

Is that the kind of place you want to live in , Chessmen71 ?

[ I am not saying that Glossitka is a bully in any way shape or form, or implication, I used bully as an example ]


#5

Ironlady,
No you don’t have to take abuse from this or any other company. Your initial posts were fine. You warned others about Glossika and you should have kept it at that. If they are harrassing you then take appropriate action.

But that doesn’t give you the right to abuse your position as moderator on this forum and I think you have. You locked at least one thread that I know of so that Glossika couldn’t respond. They said that they spammed the board because their posts weren’t showing up. Hmm …

Splam mentions that these boards are for discussion and of course he’s right. But what happens when one side can’t respond? Is that a discussion?

If others disagree, that’s fine. But IMO, as a moderator you’re supposed to act fairly and not use your position to launch attacks.

And BTW, you not getting paid to be a moderator shouldn’t be a part of this.


#6

If you took the trouble to read the post I made when I locked that thread (the one in the “Learning Chinese” forum) the thread was locked because it no longer had any remote relevance to the original topic, which was how to start in translation work. You might not realize that I cannot lock posts in ANY forum, only in the “Learning Chinese” and “La Vida Loca” fora (and, I think, maybe in the Flame Forum). I’m a Moderator, not an Administrator.

Glossika had plenty of other, identical posts they could respond to.

That is the only post I have ever locked on Segue thus far, and it was the only thread on “LC” that got so far off topic. There has been considerable discussion among the moderators about this, and there is a firm consensus among us. It was considered desirable to move the whole Glossika affair to a specific area of the board because it was negatively impacting the board as a whole. I haven’t heard any objections from Glossika about this lock, either, FYI, and usually they’re pretty quick to tell me what a bad moderator I am… :unamused:


#7

Okay, good point. I’ve said what I had to say. No hard feelings and maybe all this will be over now.


#8

I feel that there is one glaring omission from the list of new topics in this forum. And that would be a PUBLIC APOLOGY issued to Glossika, by the moderators of this forum. You have accused this company of being an illegal operation. You have systematically moved/removed/hidden their evidence to the contrary. Postings have been tampered with to reflect the attitude of the moderators, and then locked down. Guests are suddenly no longer welcome.

The whole thing reads like a conspiracy. I’ve spent hours tracing the many threads, looking for just cause. I can find only one, somewhat pathetic explanation. Ironlady didn’t get the job! She failed to comply with Glossika’s requirements! She would not take their translation test! They would not return her calls! Good Lord woman, like who the hell cares??? Take a deep breath. Their decision not to hire you probably had nothing to do with your excellent credentials, or even your broken foot or weight problem. It probably had everything to do with your lousy attitude.

And may GOD HIMSELF edit my words.

Thankyou


#9

‘call me impressed’, i am very un-impressed with you. Couldn’t you be more descriptive about ironlady? Any pimples on her nose? Ironlady is doing a great service to the foreign community- Thank you Terry- you are living up to your screen name. As for the police in Taiwan- back when I lived there they were called a gangsters with a licence. I had hoped the situation had improved, but the raid on your apartment makes me think not. While I was in Taiwan I learned that there are plenty of laws in Taiwan, but they are usually only selectively enforced to punish troublemakers. Guanxi are paramount. I would like to hear what happens with you and Lossika- I would hate to see people intimidated into not expressing their opinions if something like this happens between a local company and and expat in the future. Also, since I’m about to start a forum for my town, what is the law regarding internet posts and libel/slander, etc?


#10

I forgot to add that I demand that ‘call me impressed’ makes a public apology to this forum for his mean-spirited post. I don’t think that type of post should be deleted, however, since it is important to understand what kind of people support 'I-love-to-bluff-ika.


#11

Well, since you are not privy to the inner workings of the board, I’ll try to bring you up to speed on a few things.

Since [color=red]BEFORE the beginning of the Glossika threads [/color], which BTW were not begun by any Segue moderator, Glossika in the guise of “James Campbell” were in unofficial contact (phone conversations and e-mail) with Segue. First they “threatened” (characterize it as you will: they gave the impression that a lawsuit might be forthcoming against Segue). Then they gave a list of people who were ‘troublemakers’ (full names, too) although there were some inconsistencies with their facts (i.e., they wrongly identified “LittleIron”) and suggested that Segue “cooperate” with them in bringing these people to heel. Segue wasn’t particularly interested. They also suggested that I be removed as a moderator (remember, this was BEFORE the “Glossika threads”) and I have no problem with that being put to a poll if people want. Whatever.

[color=blue]AFTER the “Glossika threads” heated up a bit[/color], Glossika were understandably irked about the whole thing. They did not like being called illegal, and they expressed this sentiment to the folks at Segue. The folks at Segue replied (basically) something like “Well, that is a legitimate complaint. Let’s see, it’s a question of whether the accusations are true or not. If they are true, they can stay. If they are not true, they will be promptly edited. [color=red]Just put a copy of your Taiwan business registration into the mail[/color] to Gus’ PO box or Richard’s address, or fax it to Richard, and the posts will be immediately altered to reflect the fact that you have said documentation.” Well, the docs haven’t yet arrived by either channel, and that’s why the posts stand to date. You may feel that it’s “unfair” to put the burden of proof on them, but then again a business reg is a very common document in TW and many orgs and processes require it to be shown, copied, etc., so it’s really not very much out of the ordinary.

[quote]You have systematically moved/removed/hidden their evidence to the contrary. Postings have been tampered with to reflect the attitude of the moderators, and then locked down. Guests are suddenly no longer welcome.
[/quote]
A lot of what you perceive as misguided moderation has to do with trying to keep Segue a useful forum for people interested in information on Taiwan, even while allowing open discussion to continue on controversial topics. The overall purpose of Segue is to provide information and a chance for people to exchange ideas relating to Taiwan. The whole “Glossika thread” set, while possessed of a certain titillation judging by the number of views, is somewhat tangential to this goal. It was allowed to stand, but moved aside so people could continue to use the board normally. People don’t want to log onto a bbs only to see commentary on how the bbs itself is run (“you deleted that” “no I didn’t” “well, you should have” “why did you edit me” and so on).

The only “Glossika threads” or posts which have been locked down are non-contributing posts (i.e., off topic…another thread can always be started if a poster wishes) or double posts (triple…quadruple…it was really getting multiple there) which are generally deleted REGARDLESS of the source. [color=darkblue]Segue is unlike other boards in that we let things stand[/color], even when they do not seem favorable to the board or to the moderators, or when (heaven forfend!) they contain links to other boards! :laughing:

The requirement that people register and stand behind their identities before posting to threads which are bordering on (by many accusations) the libelous or slanderous is certainly not out of the ordinary. Actually, the existence of fora on Segue which do NOT require registration is a convenience to the public, and many mods feel that perhaps ALL fora should require registration. It is certainly not that difficult to hide one’s true identity (as I have learned by observation lately!) in registering for a phpBB2 bulletin board system. At least registration infers a certain, minimal, degree of responsibility for one’s postings.

[quote]The whole thing reads like a conspiracy. I’ve spent hours tracing the many threads, looking for just cause. I can find only one, somewhat pathetic explanation. Ironlady didn’t get the job! She failed to comply with Glossika’s requirements! She would not take their translation test! They would not return her calls! Good Lord woman, like who the hell cares??? Take a deep breath. Their decision not to hire you probably had nothing to do with your excellent credentials, or even your broken foot or weight problem. It probably had everything to do with your lousy attitude.
[/quote]

Well, if responding to the facts that:

  1. I received a letter from Glossika threatening to sue me on the grounds of “libel” based on ONE internet post from April 2002 (and please remember, this was PRIOR to the Glossika threads being started); and
  2. I was, within 24 hours of receipt of that letter, informed that the Tax Authorities would be checking out my “illegal office” (coincidence?); and
  3. I was raided by the police 24 hours after THAT (coincidence?); and
  4. An attempt was made to deliver merchandise COD to my “office” (and the “offices” of 2 others who do not have and have never had offices) (coincidence?) and
  5. Attempts have been made by Glossika to get organizations (i.e., Segue) to “cooperate” to “control” badly-behaving freelancers (e-mail, phone calls); and
  6. Various other e-mail hijinks have been sent out, signed by Glossika, to clients and suppliers of at least one translation firm in Taiwan who has been known to be in competition with Glossika;
    (in the case of everything marked “coincidence” above, people who have lived in Taiwan or Asia for a period of time will recognize the probability of a relationship to other events; I am NOT saying outright that Glossika were responsible for these events, however, I reserve the right to present further evidence in the future, but that would not be a topic for a bbs forum);

[color=red]if reacting to these things, and looking for the source(s), instead of simply “taking it”, constitute “a bad attitude”, then I am guilty as charged of having a “bad attitude”. [/color]However, one might wonder what the attraction was for the others on the “G-list” being listed there. They certainly did not “libel” Glossika in public prior to being placed on that glorious list, nor were they rejected for employment by Glossika. So what was their “sin”?

A “pathetic explanation” certainly exists, but in this case, it is Glossika’s use of the fact that I sent them an e-mail, responding to a newspaper ad in February 2002, to justify their actions now, in November of 2002. If every agency I ever sent an e-mail to had reacted in this way, I would not have been able to get any work done for the last 15 years.

And if you’ve spent “hours” tracing the “Glossika threads”, maybe you need to get cable TV, or join a bowling league, or something. Definitely time for a healthier hobby. :laughing:

[quote]And may GOD HIMSELF edit my words.

Thankyou[/quote]

Well, GOD HIMSELF is not yet registered here, nor does He serve as a Moderator or Administrator here (although, being omnipotent, He could very well smite a few posts if He cared to do so. Of course we would then be into the endless debate of whether His moderating style should be of the Old Testament “smite and ban with fire and brimstone” approach, or the New Testament “remonstrate with the sinners, gently editing their words” style.

Personally I think God laughs at this kind of affair, that is, when He isn’t crying about the ridiculous way human beings treat each other.


#12

[quote=“call me impressed”] Their decision not to hire you probably had nothing to do with your excellent credentials, or even your broken foot or weight problem. It probably had everything to do with your lousy attitude.
[/quote]

Sorry, but I’ve got to also say that Ironlady has done the foreign community a favor. It is not like there is a Better Business Bureau to report companies like this to.

My theory is that after seeing her resume, they knew she was in a higher-priced league. If her credentials are what she says they are, basic economics tell me she can sort of afford the lousy attitude.

As someone who has also been f-----d over by operations such as this in the past, I applaud her.


#13

Chessman71, I don’t think anyone has hard feelings. Keep posting !

Also, I think ‘call me impressed’ needs to give IronLady an apology. I don’t know what ‘call me impressed’ is thinking. Ironlady has been a stand up member of the foreign community for a long time and I think her posts have been a great help to people living here.

[ And I will not guess who ‘call me impressed’ really is.]


#14

Well, with all the wonderfull entertainment going on, let’s give those viewers who have just tuned in an update on the who-is-who of some of the characters in all this …in the meantime: don’t touch that dial, and keep infotaining and entertaining us all!

(please not that I am note sure of all the characters involved and just tried to piece together some of the obvious characters)

Albert (that’s me):
One of the people that have been at the receiving end of GLOSSIKA’s practices. For obvious reasons I am a bit careful about disclosing my complete address details at this moment, but will do so as soon as
prudent.

Ironlady:
Having the same family name (and character) as the former first Lady of Downing Street, Terry Thatcher is one of the best-known and qualified translators and interpreters in Taiwan, as well one of the most outspoken Segue moderators. She has been slandered, raided, and dragged to the tax office as a result of a certain party on this forum.

Little Iron:
Another avocat of honest freelancing and honest work. This person’s name also appeard on GLOSSIKA’s hitlist, delivered to the owner of this website. It seems however that the folks at GLOSSIKA haven’t quite figured out Little Iron’s real identity. To my knowledge this is a independent entity though, and a regular and respected contributor to the forum.

“Jay”:
A high-quality translator who has also appeared on GLOSSIKA’s hitlist. However, this person has stated clearly that he has never worked for GLOSSIKA. (only decided against working for them after checking their
credentials)

“Peter”:
Another hitlist member who has been keeping a low profile, staying up the mountain, till this situation has played itself out.

Gus:
Owner of this website (as is obvious). A very honest, community-oriented and straightforward person who found himself at the receiving end of one of GLOSSIKA’s “Pending Lawsuit Notification” (quote/unquote) letters, in which he was threathened with legal action if he would not comply with
GLOSSIKA’s requests.

IMS:
A seemingly legally-registered Taiwanese company which seems to have had some contact with GLOSSIKA in the past. Obviously not so anymore. Only one post of IMS was found, responding to an accusing post by a third party.

Marc T. (of MTI):
Two posts so far as far as I can see. It seems IMS is the Taiwan subsidiary or affiliate of MTI Communications. Accusations were made against MTI and Marc T. has responded to defend his company
(IMS and Marc.T (of MTI) are one and the same???) Seems clear enough.

GLOSSIKA:
The reason all this has started. This, according to government records, is an illegal non-registered company. They have threatened a number of people and companies (some of which are listed above). Their integrity seems a bit dubious from they way they have worded their postings and have spammed the forum. The threads speak for themselves.

James Campbell: = GLOSSIKA (aka Jim, Mike, Michael, Steven
Kang/Campbell)
Fiona Campbell: = GLOSSIKA (aka Monique, Irene, Emily, Binbin,
Liebling (Tiara-woman in some of the
posts), Chu/Campbell/Zhang/Xia)

(there may be more aliases, so forgive me if I left a few out)

“I am Impressed”:
Posted as guest, but looking at the tone of the message, could this be another GLOSSIKA posting???

Please note that there are a number of other people and companies who have not participated on this forum yet, although a number of them have either been raided/threatened or not paid…

This list is not complete, so please do not feel offended if you’re not on this list…[/u]


#15

Our company did not post in this whole Glossika thing except when provoked. Albert was right to point out that I have only responded three times, once as IMS and twice as myself.

As a company one has to stay professional and give any entity the benefit of the doubt. Having read that three companies had been raided, I sent out courtesy invitations to meet in our office tomorrow in order to discuss posibilities with regard to fending off slanderous accusations and/or attacks.

This is the courtesy email I sent James Campbell at Glossika before the weekend:

[color=red]Dear James,

Having read and listened to the events of the last few weeks I think this would be a good time to set up a meeting and discuss options.

I am aware that there was an incident with our Taiwan subsidiary last year. Miss Charlene Lin has resigned from our Taiwan subsiduary this last spring, but having read through the available information I may not have been fully informed. I have also been given photocopied material addressed to other entities, from which I may have drawn some wrong conclusions.

More to the point is that we had a visit from a number of gentlemen in uniform this morning as well. The foreigners employed full-time here in Taiwan have an ARC, so no problems with them, and they left after a few minutes, but I do not appreciate these visits. We were contacted by the BSA (Business Software Alliance) not so long ago as well, but we have a site licence for Adobe, and are a MS Certified partner, so no issues with that visit either.

Now it seems that we are being slandered on a number of forums as well.

I will be returning to Europe soon, and am not scheduled to be in Taipei again untill some time in December, so I would like to set up a meeting with you and see what options we have before I leave Taiwan again.

Please let me know if this coming Tuesday 12 November 2002 at 6pm is a good time for you.

Hope to hear fom you soon, etc, etc… [/color]

However, no direct reply has been received. As a professional courtesy one would expect a reply in a situation as grave as this.

In the hope that this post will attract their attention a bit more, I hope to be receiving a more positive reply from my colleagues, so that we can lay this whole matter to rest.


#16

You would think the respective authorities in Taiwan would have better things to do that get involved in what appears to be inter-company feuding.


#17

Dear Albert, Chessman71, et al,

I am who I say I am. A Canadian musician. I’m thinking of maybe grabbing one of your Happy Hour gigs, we could all get down and cry the blues together. No, I’m kidding.

Actually, what takes me to your site has been an interest generated by a family member. He met a bunch of Taiwanese while teaching ESL in Ottawa, and has expressed an interest in travelling to your fair isle…I was merely looking around.

I don’t know exactly why I chose to get involved. Maybe the words of the hymn on Sunday, “reach out to others to show the world you care”! Whatever the excuse, I seem to have gotten in deeper than I intended.

Public defamation is not something I condone. Albert, I see you continue to hold fast to the claim that Glossika is an unregistered, illegal company. The old "guilty until proven’ innocent approach. I don’t suppose that I’m the only one out there who objects. But I can’t blame people for not speaking out. In fact, it makes me a little nervous myself.

I figure that company registration papers are pretty precious items. I wouldn’t be photocopying them and delivering them to the “enemy” either. Sorry, that’s just the way I see it.

Again, all the best to everyone over there. I understand it’s a pretty crowded country, but surely there’s room for everyone.

S


#18

I can tell you what kissmyassika is probably doing- they passed out some pre-new year hong bao to certain police and tax officials. But how much guanxi do they really have? :wink: The foreign community should really pull together over this, because if these a-holes can succeed in intimidating people, other a-holes may catch wind of it and feel it’s not so hard to push around lao wai in Taiwan. I’m going to get in touch with my old DPP/KMT contacts and see what I can find out. :shock: You must fight guanxi with guanxi in a land where the rule of law is , for the most part, still theoretical. :stuck_out_tongue:


#19

[quote=“call me impressed”]Dear Albert, Chessman71, et al,

[/quote]

There is very little to be gained by wading into a debate when you don’t really know what you’re talking about. Many of us here have spent many years living and working in Taiwan - whereas you have leapt in to make fatuous pronouncements which are of no benefit to anyone. Perhaps if you knew (or cared) about the environment members of this board have to work in and the sort of tactics used by many unscrupulous businesses to evade what slender protection the law allows workers in Taiwan, your posts would be less arrogant, less condescending, and more helpful to us all. I wonder could you in future at least concede that there are foreigners living and working in Taiwan who simply want a level playing field and some very basic rights (for example to be paid for the work they are doing and freedom from arbitrary intererence), which rights are taken for granted in the various countries from which we came, and which rights are extended to and enjoyed by Taiwanese people living and working legally in those respective countries.


#20

[quote=“hexuan”]
There is very little to be gained by wading into a debate when you don’t really know what you’re talking about. [/quote]

All I’m going to say about this is that maybe none of us know the whole story …