God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything

Never having been religious myself, I can’t understand why so many people believe so literally in the god(s) of their various religion. God as a metaphor is fine - I can see how that can give comfort, but to take the bible/qu’ran/bhagavad gita/etc as literal truth seems stupid to me.

What’s worse is the anti-science crowd, on one hand they deny scientific evidence that contradicts their religion, yet on the other they live in houses with electricity, watch TV, create websites telling the world why they’re right, drive cars to church etc. Things that would be impossible without science. Unless they believe that God created the internet.

And let’s keep religion out of politics.

And schools.

As one of those people, I believe profoundly in God.

I’m too lazy to get up in the morning to make the sun come up.

Speaking of schools:

[quote]KABUL, June 12 (AP) - (Kyodo)— At least two female teachers were killed and three people, including a child, were wounded Tuesday when militants opened fire on a girls school in southern Afghanistan, the Afghan Interior Ministry said.

Two men on a motorbike opened fire at teachers and students of the Fatema girls’ school as they were going toward their homes in Lowgar Province at around noon, the ministry said in a statement.

The attackers fled the area, leaving their motorbike behind, it added.

At least 85 students and teachers were killed last year in attacks blamed on militants who oppose education for girls and teaching of boys, according to Afghanistan’s Ministry of Education.

Militants also burned down 187 schools and 350 were closed because of security concerns, the ministry said recently. [/quote]
breitbart.com/article.php?id … le=1&cat=0

And I watched a bbc documentary called “Sex Crimes and the Vatican.” The new poop has some dirty laundry it seems…covering up others’ sex crimes against kids.

Assuming that our everly expanding fathead-equipped ugly bags of mostly water are even worthy of some kind of superior being, then it’s equally possible to assume that whatever ‘god’ that may hold sway over our precarious existance is none other than an eon-aged 350-pound Abyssinian woman with one deep, dark, & diverse sense of humor.

[b][i]“Creator: a comedian whose audience is afraid to laugh.”
H.L. MENCKEN[/b][/i]

Stray Dog, Hitchens is also published in large fonts with lots of colour pictures. It’s not one of those books with nothing but tiny little writing in them.

Can you lend it to me then?

Can you lend it to me then?[/quote]
I could. The cardboard pages make it a bit heavy, though.

[quote=“jdsmith”]Hitchens is writing a lot of things that resonate with me, like gods/religion were invented a long time by things that scared the shit out of protohumans (not to be confused with proto_tw who is not an ape man…not really) like thunder and lighting, eclipses etc…all these things that can now be explained and understood by a majority of the human population.

So isn’t it fair to say that, given a modern education, humanity has evolved past the boundaries of religion and god?[/quote]

The problem is that religion is not solely based on, nor even primarily based on, a need to understand natural phenomenon. Most people now accept scientific explanations for the natural world, but still practice religion to at least some degree. I’m surprised Hitchens would latch on to that old chestnut, as anthropologists who study the origins of religion give it very little weight.

Of all the proposed origins of religion, I think the most persuasive are those that focus on biological rather than cultural impacts. For example, there is something about the way our brains work (and this is not well understood) that compel us to perceive ourselves and each other with a mind/body duality. It’s simply intuitive for us to think of our consciousness as merely co-existing with our physical bodies, capable of moving on to some kind of afterlife after our bodies die. All religions attempt to explain in some form or fashion the existence and purpose of the soul and its place in the next life.

Our minds also intuitively understand complexity to arise out of more complexity. Paley’s famous watchmaker argument sums it up nicely: If a man is walking along the beach and finds a watch, he instantly assumes it was made, rather than coming together by random chance. Well it takes serious study and reflection for we humans to understand that complexity can arise out of simplicity, and that even the most complex phenomena in nature are better understood as a product of blind evolutionary forces than the product of a divine creator. But again, that has to be learned. Intuitively, we believe there is some kind of complex explanation for the cosmos, whether it be direct creation from a single intelligence or some other supernatural forces.

I think religions probably confer some kind of evolutionary benefit as well. Perhaps directly, as religion often plays a major part in group identity, and tends to encompass and promote the community’s values. Or indirectly, as a by-product of some other advantageous trait. For instance, humans seem to be programmed to believe their parents unwaveringly during childhood. Religious people seem to use the same mechanism of blind trust and suspension of disbelief to accept otherwise unbelievable and irrational doctrine.

Finally, religious experience is very common and very difficult for science to explain away. I myself had a profound religious experience that resulted in me converting to a fundamentalist form of Christianity several years ago (which I have since renounced, obviously). It was the single most profound experience of my life, and I doubt I will ever really know what happened. There have been neurological studies done on people having religious experiences, but they don’t refute the reality of religious experience any more than describing what part of the brain is active while looking at a chair disproves a person is looking at a chair.

Religious experience is significant for two reasons. First, it lends credibility to doctrinal aspects of the religion. If someone perceives his religious experience as part of a particular religion, then other aspects of that religion tend to seem more plausible. That’s how it worked with me anyways. Second, religious experience is not something easily matched in the secular world. Perhaps Hitchens can achieve it through reading literature, but most of us can’t. Religion, be it organized religion or some loose form of spiritualism, offers experiences that otherwise can’t be found.

I haven’t read Hitchens’ book yet, but I suspect it is about as devoid of understanding as Harris’ “End of Faith”. I think I’ll put it near the bottom of my “to buy” list.

Try acid.

Try acid.[/quote]

Wow man the walls are breathing, I can see the music, and I lost my ego. I am going to the mirror to look at myself in it. Holy shit my face is melting, cool.

then there’s those type of peoples

and after watching 5 minutes of one of his “shows”,you get shivers,your mouth is agape,and you feel sudden urges to go kill the twat…

but he’s no fool,he’s just surfing the wave of pathetic,gullible,backbone-less masses,and makes a fortune out of it.

dawkins “root of all evils” is a good watch too

and JD,
you’re aware that the US of A is a mighty castle of cards bonded by religion,right?
it would be interesting to see what would result is religion was outlawed from both politics and education…

and when you express your wish of a religion free leadership and decision making,it’s like you’re taking jabs at good ol’georges… :laughing: :laughing:

[quote]and JD,
you’re aware that the US of A is a mighty castle of cards bonded by religion,right?[/quote]
Sure. The Puritans were a bunch of inloterant dickheads. Don’t see many of them around these days.

[quote]
it would be interesting to see what would result is religion was outlawed from both politics and education…[/quote]
I wouldn’t want it to be OUTLAWED. I would hope people would see the light and realize that “God has no place in politics, just as facts have no place in organized religion.”

[quote]
and when you express your wish of a religion free leadership and decision making,it’s like you’re taking jabs at good ol’georges…[/quote]
Absolutely. So?

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote]and JD,
you’re aware that the US of A is a mighty castle of cards bonded by religion,right?[/quote]
Sure. The Puritans were a bunch of inloterant dickheads. Don’t see many of them around these days.
[/quote]

don’t be so obtuse,
you knew i referred to the current govt

excerpt from washingtonmonthly.com/featur … livan.html

it is well documented that bush ,throughout his terms in office,was on constant communication with the most influential religious leaders .

how about his comments in the light of
“god set me the task to invade iraq”

bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressr … bush.shtml

chew on that for starters :wink:

I don’t know of any US President in recent history to not play the god card. Bush is nothing special in that department, just more obvious. And there are far worse examples in the world of religious national heads.

If anything, Bush should be brought to task for hiring incompetent graduates of Liberty University to serve in his administration.

As for being obtuse, my mistake for reading “bonded” as “founded.” Pre-coffee post.

i mentioned bush because i like to talk about the current flavour,but i know that in the states,religion and politics have long been intertwined,does it make it more alright?no

by the way,is your signature a quote from god???

There is nothing wrong with forgiveness.

I don’t know. I think it’s pretty spot on that America was founded by Puritans - a group of people who came to the continent because they believed in the right to freedom of religion, but punished anyone who didn’t follow their brand of religion.

I think that world would be better off separating religion from God and politicians from government. It seems the former in both cases is only holding back faith in the latter.

Isn’t it sad how our kids are taught the pilgrims came to America for the right of religious freedom? It’s true that the Puritans called for toleration in England, but that was only because they were in the minority at the time. Their intention in the New World was to create a Christian society free from pagan influences and implemented as strict a theocracy as their crown-approved charter and English law permitted. They championed the cause of their puritanical brethren during the English Civil War and hailed Cromwell as a godly hero. Why do we feel the need to spoon feed our children ignorance and lies?

How do we separate politicians from government? Or did you mean religious politicians?

No there isn’t. To err is human, to forgive humane. :wink: