Gogoro electric scooter


#101

They will need help from government subsidies to make a go of it. if they could penalize polluting gas scooters it would be more stick too…but few have the balls to do that in Taiwan. Maybe parking space could be reserved for electric scooters too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


#102

oooo, bad idea. They should just put a price tag on the thing and let people make up their minds. Sales tactics like that are unprofessional and pointless. Unless … perhaps they’re using that method on the (potential) early adopters to gauge people’s reactions so they can set the market price correctly?


#103

They probably haven’t set a price yet especially as they are waiting to confirm subsidy from Taipei city government.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


#104

[quote=“finley”]I noticed a shiny new Gogoro showroom near the Vieshow cinema the other day, but didn’t have a chance to pop in. It looks the business. I must say, Taiwanese design has changed out of all recognition since I first got here. Kudos to the young guys who are making this stuff happen.

If they actually start building some charging stations in co-operation with a well-established company, I’d like to get one.[/quote]
Which one cinema? There are many!


#105

The other thing my supervisor said is “They won’t sell in Taiwan because of the seat.”

Apparently the back of the seat is too wide for a passenger to straddle comfortably.


#106

Yep I remember Taiwanese telling me they like tea not coffee and don’t drink milk too :slight_smile:.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


#107

I can’t even get a robot vacuum to maintain good battery life when it’s running off lithium ion. Those batteries work great for things like tablets and smartphones but I’m hesitant when it comes to machinery. I’ve had two roombas get limp-wristed on me.


#108

Wouldn’t be your problem, they are subscription base.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


#109

Those consumer gadgets with rechargeable batteries are shit. The batteries are always underrated - basically, the thing is designed to work for a few months and then fail. The ball’n’chain insisted on buying a battery vacuum cleaner once, which took about 50 charge cycles and then failed. When I opened it up it was fitted with crappy NiMH cells rated at about 2Ah, but the motor ran at about 10 amps (that is, the batteries were being drained at ~5C). No surprise they gave out.

Apparently Gogoro have paid a lot of attention to getting the design right - which makes good business sense if they’re going to shoulder the hassle of charging and replacing the batteries.

BP: the showroom is near the Taipei City Hall MRT. Walk towards the Vieshow cinema from the MRT and you can’t miss it.


#110

uScooters anyone?


#111

The DEAL BREAKER is you HAVE TO CHARGE AT THERE STATION!

Sounds like a monopoly to me!

batteries last 100km if driving at 40kph but who never goes above 40kph?

real world I think they will last 55-80km’s

If its 50 NT to swipe your yoyo card to get 2 new batteries then well, there is no ownership benefit

Basically you are paying just as much as you would if you were driving a gas 125cc scooter

But you get stuck limiting yourself to big cities with stations no out of town driving

My ride gets 70KM/per liter so about 25nt to drive 70Kms

I know they will charge 25Nt or more to swap out 2 batteries NO BENEFIT OF OWNERSHIP

and the only reason to get people to make the electric switch is “it’s cheaper”

but unfortunately monitizing the charging stations in this monopoly fashion makes it

more of an inconvience then a convience to own this model since you are limited to the city, its not cheaper then gas.

If the company was smart they would say the startions are free then in 2-3 years when everyone and there mom

has one start charging 25nt to recharge charging right off the bat to recharge makes me feel just fine

sticking with a gas scooter after all same price, plus I CAN go out of town

After studying electric vehicles many years and majoring in business I must say this companies

business plan is flawed Customers need a reason to make the switch

What is the reward/positive reason why I should switch? Is it cheaper?

If they want to charge 10nt for a double battery swap (highly unlikely) then yeah im interested

if 20-25 nt for a double battery swap (each scooter has 2 batteries) then im just paying same

or more for electricity then my gas scooter if my batteries die in less then 70km im paying

more then my gas scooter

***Now for the positives,…

The design is solid nice frame all aluminum kinda unibody vespa style

nice 8.5hp motor capable of 95kph top speed

nice belt drive system thats strong and light requiring no lubrication

Has reverse atleast it said on the left throttle (looks interesting?)

The smart battery has some chip linking it to “the system” of your scooter and charge stations

This “linking chip” could and most likely will be hacked/ bypassed to allow at home charging/ aftermarket batteries

if this catches on im 99.9999% certain eventually after market batteries and charger + hack mod will come

out allowing to charge at home/ carry additional batteries to extend trip to 200km’s

As a consumer I will be one of the ones waiting and watching to see who hacks / mods one first to charge at home

take alternative battery sources or what after market company comes out first with an at home charger

I know it would cost like 5-10nt max to fully charge at home these packs so im sorry but im not interested in paying

your 25nt monopolistic same as gas prices to recharge at your monopoly charge/electric station

with gas prices beating you

I know how they will pitch it to,… the good thing is you never have to worry about replacing an expensive battery pack

well that may be true but I also know that these packs last 10-15 years so im good with that lifespan if overall im saving

a ton more money on charging during those 10-15 years and in another 15 years we will have batteries that last 30

years or longer electric motors last forever so I am not worried about replacing expensive batteries if thats your

sales pitch since I know they last nearly forever and will only get better in the future but I am worried about paying

more for electricity then gasoline because well Thats just ridiculous :loco:

Honestly guys these bikes are to simple like bread and butter or legos or computer hardware

just dump the brick battery monopoly system keep the scooter hardware add mod own battery

and it really is a nice solid ride switching to electric should be cool, eco friendly and most importantly cheaper :loco:

Anyone interested in an alternative battery for replacement of this scoot seach A123 batteries

they come in the Dewalt power tools battery packs the a123 batteries are the “holy grail” of all batteries

for any and all electric vehicles super long long life and recharge cycle

much better then the panasonic cells this scoot uses


#112

If people have the capability to charge at home then there will certainly be another option (different escooter). The problem is that way too many people don’t have the capability at all to charge at home. This business model works for them while the charge at home model is near impossible.

70 km/liter on your scooter? I doubt it. Definitely not in the city and extremely unlikely in the countryside unless you are going real slow to optimize fuel efficiency.

I am also lukewarm on e-scooters myself since 90% of my usage is long weekend rides in the mountains. I walk or ride my bike in the city a lot. But there are other reasons for people to switch rather than fuel/electricity cost. For one these scooters should be cheaper to maintain. I think it’s possible that the initial purchase price can be lower but I’m not convinced that they actually will launch it at a reasonable price. There is also the environmental aspect. In the US people are buying Prius’s and even the Tesla not because they are committed to the environment or they save that much fuel but rather to show others that they are green. This is a bit of a foreign concept in Taiwan but it’s possible that these catch on with the middle class here in that same way.


#113

[quote=“Abacus”]If people have the capability to charge at home then there will certainly be another option (different escooter). The problem is that way too many people don’t have the capability at all to charge at home. This business model works for them while the charge at home model is near impossible.

70 km/liter on your scooter? I doubt it. Definitely not in the city and extremely unlikely in the countryside unless you are going real slow to optimize fuel efficiency.

[/quote]

Huh? don’t have the capacity to charge at home? You mean lazy people?
EVERYONE has the capability to charge at home here are the requirements

Have a home with 110v outlet
be capable of lifting 9kg battery cell for longer then 1 minute
Basically be “not lazy” but I know this might be a deal breaker for some that think 9kg is a lot
I call it an eco workout after all the batteries are like dungbells
I am of course speaking if an at home charger exhisted for this model

There is another e scooter on the market now that does charge at home
I know a Taiwanese couple that hauls up a way heavier battery to there 5th floor home
the problem with this model is the range and speed are way way to low to make it a hot item
its the same model Taiwan gov workers use to drive around and put tickets on cars

as for my scoot its a 2014 Honda MSX 125 I bought it because it gets 68km’s per liter
So I rounded up to 70km’s close enough and thats at a steady speed of 60kph not bad
Fuel economy scanned right from the energy consumption tag
HONDA 全球戰略小車 MSX125

4行程單缸空冷引擎

噴射系統PGM-Fi、驚人省油的數據

通過能源局認證1級能源機種,平均油耗68.1公里/公升

The closest thing that came close was the kymco vjr 50cc at 63.5km liter
So i bought the honda for this reason fuel economy let me go get the energy tag that
came on it since I know there will still be a few dis beleivers and scan post it here
H#LL i don’t blame you, I was even in disbeilief when I saw 68km per liter


#114

You’d think someone who majored in business might be able to spell and write in coherent paragraphs.

There’s no such thing as a ‘holy grail’ of batteries, or not yet. A123 batteries are just a variant on LiFePO4 technology, which do have pretty good cycle life but are also rather heavy (about the same as NiMH). They’re also non-recyclable. How do you know they’re “better” than the Panasonic cells? On what measure? Generally, when comparing cell technology there are all sorts of tradeoffs, and you pick the one that suits your application.

There’s nothing wrong with Gogoro’s business model. They’re targeting customers who don’t want the hassle of owning and charging batteries. People who prefer the hassle of owning and charging batteries can buy scooters from another company. However, that hasn’t worked out so well to date, has it? Gogoro don’t have to be all things to all men, and I think it would be a huge mistake to try. Apple sell cool widgets to people who like cool widgets, and extend a middle digit to people who don’t. Selling what you’re good at is a good business model, in general.

There are many reasons people buy things, and it doesn’t always boil down to cost. However, I’m pretty sure Gogoro could sell recharges for somewhat less money than a gasoline scooter. Physics is on their side. The only thing that might screw that up would be bad marketing.


#115

[quote=“finley”]You’d think someone who majored in business might be able to spell and write in coherent paragraphs.

There’s no such thing as a ‘holy grail’ of batteries, or not yet. A123 batteries are just a variant on LiFePO4 technology, which do have pretty good cycle life but are also rather heavy (about the same as NiMH). They’re also non-recyclable. How do you know they’re “better” than the Panasonic cells? On what measure? Generally, when comparing cell technology there are all sorts of tradeoffs, and you pick the one that suits your application.

There’s nothing wrong with Gogoro’s business model. They’re targeting customers who don’t want the hassle of owning and charging batteries. People who prefer the hassle of owning and charging batteries can buy scooters from another company. However, that hasn’t worked out so well to date, has it? Gogoro don’t have to be all things to all men, and I think it would be a huge mistake to try. Apple sell cool widgets to people who like cool widgets, and extend a middle digit to people who don’t. Selling what you’re good at is a good business model, in general.

There are many reasons people buy things, and it doesn’t always boil down to cost. However, I’m pretty sure Gogoro could sell recharges for somewhat less money than a gasoline scooter. Physics is on their side. The only thing that might screw that up would be bad marketing.[/quote]

If you want to get technical and try to bash me on typing clean up yours first LoL

I type double spaced at time because its cleaner to read leaving spaces instead of periods

This is how I type online, deal with it Im not here to impress anyone, nor to pass a college level class

So yes i will be leaving out proper punctuation on forums as I have always done before

You said “apple sell cool widgets” should be “apple sales cool widgets” not sell need the “s”

apple sell cool widgets sounds kinda broken asian English to me but thats besides the point

Back to the point who said owning and maintaining batteries is a “hassle” its really not
A123 are the holy grail do your research You know NASA yeah they use them
Taiwan is a small market 20 million you need to think outside the box like what other people want
although the super easy charge station has appeal to some lazies in Taiwan in the bigger market
most people don’t mind charging at home and don’t care about charging at home

The other e scooter model failed because it goes 45kph and has a 30km range not because of charging
In the US we have an extremely popular E motorcycle that goes 180kph and has a 200km range
its called Brammo it charges at home, or any place theres a 110v outlet it was a huge success
so much so it got sold to Hong Kong as there official city police motorcycle

If gogoro is so great why didn’t they think about all this or are they happy just targeting the
lazy big city hipsters willing to pay more for electricity then gas

I see another taiwanese company focused on what works in Taiwan with no
out of box thinking concerning export sales and the rest of the world but hey what do I know
Im just a little experienced businessman clearly im out of my league for posting all this


#116

Shouldn’t it be sells cool widgets?

edit:
note sell needs the s


#117

A smartphone can cost up to what? 30000NT$?
That makes economically absolutely no sense, especially when replacing it every 2 years.
Also, I think, you should be paying much more for your gas since you are polluting the air I breath.
If you asked me, for stinking around down by my window, it should be 10 NT$ for every 5 minutes and for waking me up in the middle of the night, another 100NT$.


#118

[quote=“Guy1983”][quote=“finley”]You’d think someone who majored in business might be able to spell and write in coherent paragraphs.

There’s no such thing as a ‘holy grail’ of batteries, or not yet. A123 batteries are just a variant on LiFePO4 technology, which do have pretty good cycle life but are also rather heavy (about the same as NiMH). They’re also non-recyclable. How do you know they’re “better” than the Panasonic cells? On what measure? Generally, when comparing cell technology there are all sorts of tradeoffs, and you pick the one that suits your application.

There’s nothing wrong with Gogoro’s business model. They’re targeting customers who don’t want the hassle of owning and charging batteries. People who prefer the hassle of owning and charging batteries can buy scooters from another company. However, that hasn’t worked out so well to date, has it? Gogoro don’t have to be all things to all men, and I think it would be a huge mistake to try. Apple sell cool widgets to people who like cool widgets, and extend a middle digit to people who don’t. Selling what you’re good at is a good business model, in general.

There are many reasons people buy things, and it doesn’t always boil down to cost. However, I’m pretty sure Gogoro could sell recharges for somewhat less money than a gasoline scooter. Physics is on their side. The only thing that might screw that up would be bad marketing.[/quote]

If you want to get technical and try to bash me on typing clean up yours first LoL

I type double spaced at time because its cleaner to read leaving spaces instead of periods

This is how I type online, deal with it Im not here to impress anyone, nor to pass a college level class

So yes i will be leaving out proper punctuation on forums as I have always done before

You said “apple sell cool widgets” should be “apple sales cool widgets” not sell need the “s”

apple sell cool widgets sounds kinda broken Asian English to me but thats besides the point

Back to the point who said owning and maintaining batteries is a “hassle” its really not
A123 are the holy grail do your research You know NASA yeah they use them
Taiwan is a small market 20 million you need to think outside the box like what other people want
although the super easy charge station has appeal to some lazies in Taiwan in the bigger market
most people don’t mind charging at home and don’t care about charging at home

The other e scooter model failed because it goes 45kph and has a 30km range not because of charging
In the US we have an extremely popular E motorcycle that goes 180kph and has a 200km range
its called Brammo it charges at home, or any place theres a 110v outlet it was a huge success
so much so it got sold to Hong Kong as there official city police motorcycle

If gogoro is so great why didn’t they think about all this or are they happy just targeting the
lazy big city hipsters willing to pay more for electricity then gas

I see another taiwanese company focused on what works in Taiwan with no
out of box thinking concerning export sales and the rest of the world but hey what do I know
Im just a little experienced businessman clearly im out of my league for posting all this[/quote]

In all fairness, your grammar really is a mess.


#119

[quote=“Guy1983”][quote=“Abacus”]If people have the capability to charge at home then there will certainly be another option (different escooter). The problem is that way too many people don’t have the capability at all to charge at home. This business model works for them while the charge at home model is near impossible.

70 km/liter on your scooter? I doubt it. Definitely not in the city and extremely unlikely in the countryside unless you are going real slow to optimize fuel efficiency.

[/quote]

Huh? don’t have the capacity to charge at home? You mean lazy people?
EVERYONE has the capability to charge at home here are the requirements

Have a home with 110v outlet
be capable of lifting 9kg battery cell for longer then 1 minute
Basically be “not lazy” but I know this might be a deal breaker for some that think 9kg is a lot
I call it an eco workout after all the batteries are like dungbells
I am of course speaking if an at home charger exhisted for this model

There is another e scooter on the market now that does charge at home
I know a Taiwanese couple that hauls up a way heavier battery to there 5th floor home
the problem with this model is the range and speed are way way to low to make it a hot item
its the same model Taiwan gov workers use to drive around and put tickets on cars

as for my scoot its a 2014 Honda MSX 125 I bought it because it gets 68km’s per liter
So I rounded up to 70km’s close enough and thats at a steady speed of 60kph not bad
Fuel economy scanned right from the energy consumption tag
HONDA 全球戰略小車 MSX125

4行程單缸空冷引擎

噴射系統PGM-Fi、驚人省油的數據

通過能源局認證1級能源機種,平均油耗68.1公里/公升

The closest thing that came close was the kymco vjr 50cc at 63.5km liter
So i bought the honda for this reason fuel economy let me go get the energy tag that
came on it since I know there will still be a few dis beleivers and scan post it here
H#LL I don’t blame you, I was even in disbeilief when I saw 68km per liter[/quote]

There is nothing lazy about not wanting to schlepp two 9kg batteries around all the time. I think it would be hilarious explaining to a 40-50 kg woman that a couple times/wk she is going to need to carry over 1/3 of her body weight to and from her apartment.

I’m impressed by your fuel economy but there are very, very few people getting that fuel economy in Taiwan. And there are very few that want a 100K motorcycle. I would guess that the typical fuel economy is half that and that is what your numbers should be comparing. This product isn’t being marketed directly for you but rather the Taiwanese population as a whole. There are also a lot more costs to owning a scooter than just fuel costs. Regular maintenance and repairs should be cheaper on an e-scooter.

For you Gogoro makes very little sense. For me it also makes very little sense (long weekend rides in the mountains). For the typical Taiwanese that commutes around in the city it might make sense if the purchase price is <50K (half the price of your motorcycle and less than a new scooter) and the so called inflated recharge price can simply beat gasoline (it should be able to by a fair amount). It remains to be seen what they will sell them at or what the recharge will be priced at.


#120

Speed limit is 50 km/h in most cities and even outside … some even 40 km/h. So, basically most people on a scooter in Taiwan are speeding!

Another incentive to get an e-scooter … tax the gasoline powered high enough.

[quote]If gogoro is so great why didn’t they think about all this or are they happy just targeting the
lazy big city hipsters willing to pay more for electricity then gas[/quote]

Because polution in cities is the worst, and you have a higher population density living in apartments that can’t charge their e-scooter. Simple economics!