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The best part of learning more advanced Chinese is being able to give as good as you get. And then some. It helps that I'm tall and weigh 200lbs too....
More power to you Maoman.
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You're right....I *don't* give a damn. I see no reason to.
What is sad and scary to me is that you have become like that Taxi driver.
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So, who was insensitive? What would you have done if this had happened to you in the States? What would have been the reaction of the Police?
One case come to mind, Vincent Chin:
Death of Vincent Chin -
On June 19, 1982, Vincent Chin, aChinese American went to a Detroit bar to celebrate his upcoming wedding. There, two white auto worker, Ronald Ebens and his step-son, Michael Nitz taunted him, reportedly calling him, a “Jap”. Ebens complained: “It’s because of you, ************s, that we’re out of work!”
Once outside, Ebens and Nitz went to their car, took out a baseball bat from the trunk, and approached Chin and his companions, who were waiting in the parking lot to be picked up by another friend. Chin and his friends started running. They were chased and hunted by Ebens and Nitz. They finally trapped Chin in front of a McDonald’s restaurant where Nitz held their prey while Ebens bludgeoned him with a baseball bat. Four day later he died from severe head injuries. Several hundred people, originally invited to Chin’s wedding, attended instead his funeral.
Ebens was a foreman at an automobile plant. Nitz who had been laid off, was going to school part-time. At that time, the American automobile industry was in a depression, facing stiff competition from cars imported from Japan. Apparently, Ebens mistook Vincent Chin for a Japanese.
Charged with second-degree murder, Ebens and Nitz were allowed to plead guilty to manslaughter. On March 16, 1983, Wayne County Circuit Judge, Charles S. Kaufman, after hearing arguments only from the defense attorneys and not from the prosecuting attorney, sentenced the two men to three years probation and fined each of them $3,000 plus $780 in fees. Both of the criminals were permitted to “repay their debt” to society in monthly payment of $125. “These weren’t the kind of men you send to jail,” commented Judge Kaufman. "We’re talking here about a man (Ebens) who’s held down a responsible job with the same company for seventeen or eighteen years and his son (Nitz) who is employed and is a part-time student…These men are not going to go out and harm somebody else. I just didn
The Chin case is isolated similar to the unfortunate assult of your wife by the taxi driver. I do not think either case is representative of the general population. So, please don’t use that against the rest of Taiwanese.
This is the ending to Chin’s story:
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. Sufficient evidence of violation was found and a federal grand jury was convened in September 1983. Two months later the grand jury indicted Ebens and Nitz and two counts. The following year they were in a U.S. district court, whose jury convicted Ebens of violating Chin's civil rights but acquitted him of conspiracy, while acquitting Nitz of both charges. Ebens was sentenced to 25 years in jail and was told to undergo treatment for alcoholism, but he was freed after posting a $20,00 bond.Ebens
I still say its lactose intollerance.
quote[quote] Ryan P. I still say its lactose intollerance. [/quote]Maybe. When I lived in Korea, my body emitted a garlic B.O. due to local diet (even my piss smelled different). It had nothing to do with personal hygiene either.
However, local people never notice these things. This may be why many Americans think European do not take showers.
Racism is not a new concept for me. A group of “men” vandalized our property spray painting racial slurs (misspelled, of course as they were overgrown idiots who didn’t even graduate from high school and lived off federal aid) on our fence and despite there were 12 people who signed statements as having witnessed this as well as three people who did it opening bragging about it, they were let go with no reprimands by a US court of law. Guess what happened again a few weeks later. God bless small-town America.
On a more positive note, despite the whispering Taiwanese high school students, which one unfortunate night when running late to meet a friend I got stuck on a very full bus of them (at least 30 students)…you’d think I was in a cage of snakes with all the hissing, I was riding the MRT home one night and an older woman came and sat down beside me and asked me if my eyelashes were real (I guess they’re long?). We spoke back and forth in English and my limited Mandarin and she then informed that not only was dating a Taiwanese man the best way to learn the language, but that her son was available and was close to my age. Mind you, I am black and she was offering me her son’s hand. I think I’ll tell my great-grandkids that story. It completely made my day. Hell, it might just make my whole time here in Taiwan. No matter how poo-ey I am being treated by the locals, there’s one woman on this island who thinks that I am good enough for her son.
When I asked a private student why no one would sit next to me on the bus, he gave me the same answer that longdong got- most Taiwanese were afraid that I’d start speaking English to them and they’d be unable to respond well, thereby losing face in front of everyone on the bus.
I always liked the bus rider trick of pretending to be asleep in order to preserve your seat, even if there’s a 7 month pregnant woman, 88 year old man and a couple of blind nuns standing in front of you…
quote[quote] I always liked the bus rider trick of pretending to be asleep in order to preserve your seat, even if there's a 7 month pregnant woman, 88 year old man and a couple of blind nuns standing in front of you... [/quote]In a case like this, I think one needs to offer one’s own seat OR (if not seated) politely wake up the “new nacroleptic” passenger.
I believe we can sometimes use the “losing face” for forces of good. Smart foreigners discover this trick early on.
quote[quote] Guess what happened again a few weeks later. God bless small-town America. [/quote]What? This happened in multi-culture America? I am shocked beyond belief. Americans are so enlightened, and so sophisticated. So much like Mai Longdong. (I’m being facetious, of course)
Dare I make this distinction? Racists in America (and some Europeans) tend express their racist hatred with physical violence (beating, burning cross, etc.) more than racist in Asia. Maybe this is more a reflection of the higher level of violence in society.
Taiwanese tend to be more racist toward people of darker complexion ('though the younger TW admire Alisha Keyes, Coby Bryant, etc).
Do you find yourself being treated worst than the paler foreigner people in Taiwan? If so, how different?
UrbanJet, you are living off of stereotypes as much as Mai LongDong. There is no difference between the two countries as far as attacks go. Foreigners getting attacked in either place is rare but it happens. Read through the fighting in Taiwan topic if you don’t believe me.
Re: Seats on the bus. I have this horrible fear of Mr Free-English Lessons. I’m sitting on the MRT reading my paper and about once a week someone will sit next to me and start looking at the paper and stuff and I JUST KNOW that he’s going to start talking English with me. I am so anxious I can’t read the paper anymore, but try not to make eye-contact to enocurage him. Then when it finally happens “what does this word mean?” I try and reply politely in Mandarin, but sometimes I lose it and am ruder than I like to be and scare the poor bugger away and end up feeling guilty for not talking to someone.
Bri
Brian,
Just say you’re from provincial town Ireland, only speak Gaelic and pig latin, and you just carry around the paper for fun.
Actually, this (or a toned-down version at least) has helped me out a few times. Kinda… For example, there was once a crazy lady over by Cheng Gong University in Tainan (some of you might actually know who I’m talking about) that spoke fluent English while rambling up and down the street. I hung out a lot on that street because my gan a-yi’s fried rice place was there. One day she stopped and started talking loudly to me in English from about 5 meters away. My a-yi’s husband saved the day… ‘He doesn’t speak English; he’s French.’ (I’m from the US) She said, ‘oh’ and walked away. (She had previously told my English friend that if he were American, she’d have to kill him…)
(She must have forgotten I was ‘French’, because a couple of days later she came by and told me in perfct English that she was going on a spaceship soon with Richard Nixon and Miss Piggy. I wished her a good flight; she said thanks and left…)
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Originally posted by LittleIron: ...there was once a crazy lady over by Cheng Gong University in Tainan (some of you might actually know who I'm talking about) that spoke fluent English while rambling up and down the street.
I always wondered what became of Linda Arrigo… (arrigo@seed.net.tw)
Rumor was she was an ex-professor at ChengDa(hence her perfect English) that had a breakdown. She shows up for a few days every couple of weeks, walking up and down the road behind the U with all the food shops and 'net cafes speaking English very loudly. Apparently she has medicine that makes her better but she forgets to take it sometimes…
Sounds like the start of a good urban legend…
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Originally posted by Urbanjet:In a case like this, I think one needs to offer one’s own seat OR (if not seated) politely wake up the “new nacroleptic” passenger.
I believe we can sometimes use the “losing face” for forces of good. Smart foreigners discover this trick early on.
When I lived in London I would give up my seat to the elderly but after I got to Taiwan I stopped since they seemed sturdy enough to push me out of the way to get on the bus first or make it to the seat so I figured f*** them - if your strong enough to push me out of the way your strong enough to stand.
I don’t offer my seat to people with children either - pregnant or not - they always give the seat to the kid and stand themselves. I didn’t
give up my seat for your child.
quote[quote] Just say you're from provincial town Ireland, only speak Gaelic and pig Latin, and you just carry around the paper for fun. [/quote]I’ve always thought of saying, “I’m sorry, I’m Bulgarian, and don’t speak a word of English” to the 'Mr Free English Lesson", people. But I have trouble lying so blatantly (and I don’t know the Chinese for Bulgaria). So how do others deal with this problem?
I know it doesn’t seem to bother some people, but actually I think it weird when complete strangers suddenly start talking to me. Of course, it wouldn’t be so bad if they were just being friendly, but thery’re not interested in that. So I always speak back in Chinese with the idea that if they’re actually just interested in conversation and friendship, then they’ll be happy to speak Chinese with me. In that case I wouldn’t mind switching to English later. This only happens occasionally. But somtimes you really have to put someone off, here’s some of the methods I’ve thought of or heard of:
The polite way: Politely in Chinese “I’m sorry, I’m tired at the moment and would just like to read my paper”.
Totally ignoring the speaker and then maybe “oh sorry, were you talking to me” (in Chinese of course).
The above “I’m sorry I’m from Uzbekistan and don’t speak English”
Big Dork’s “I’ve taken a vow not to speak English for a month”
If someone is really rude and trying to impress his friend’s with his English ability: (in English) “I’m sorry I don’t understand what you’re saying”.
For the same guy above: Reply using very very difficult English that he won’t possibly understand.
For a laugh: Talk away and offer increasingly outrageous lies as to where you’re from and what you do etc
“I’m an English teacher and you? … You have a restaurant, well I expect that I’ll be able to come over for free meals then? No?..”
A preprinted card with ‘the usual information’ on it (where you’re from, what you do etc) to save time replying to his questions, and at the bottom, your name, title - Personal English Trainer, fees - 3000NT and hour, and phone number
Actually I’ve never used most of these and always seem to end up felling like I’ve offended someone. Any others?
quote:So "native english speakers" have their little troubles too...;-) I can honestly say "Sorry, I'm a German." and although this does not say anything about my abilities in any language, people will mostly respond "Oh, I see..." and leave me alone. Also every time people ask for my "english name" I tell them I don't have one. One thing you could try is to ask in Chinese "Why do you think every foreigner is an American?" This question will make most people suppose you are not from an English speaking country. Unfortunately, there are certain people that will right then become interested in a lengthy conversation...
Originally posted by Bu Lai En: I've always thought of saying, "I'm sorry, I'm Bulgarian, and don't speak a word of English" to the 'Mr Free English Lesson", people. But I have trouble lying so blatantly (and I don't know the Chinese for Bulgaria). So how do others deal with this problem?
quote[quote]6) For the same guy above: Reply using very very difficult English that he won’t possibly understand.[/quote]
A former fellow student did that, with one difference: He was teaching English (to Japanese) that way…
quote[quote]7) For a laugh: Talk away and offer increasingly outrageous lies as to where you’re from and what you do etc[/quote]
The answer is “42”… And if they ask what that means: “Read the book…” If you’re talking way too mysterious, even missionaries will leave you alone…
quote[quote]9) A preprinted card with ‘the usual information’ on it (where you’re from, what you do etc) to save time replying to his questions, and at the bottom, your name, title - Personal English Trainer, fees - 3000NT and hour, and phone number[/quote]
The “Hudson Hawk Way” - I actually had thought about that method, using cards with answers (probably best in Chinese) to a few frequently asked questions. I’m very curious about the possible reactions…
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Originally posted by Gazza:I don’t offer my seat to people with children either - pregnant or not - they always give the seat to the kid and stand themselves. I didn’t
give up my seat for your child.
Gazza,
If a mother offers the seat to her child, it might be because she doesn’t want him to fall if the bus comes to a sudden stop. Some of the bus drivers here don’t give a damn if someone gets hurt on their bus. I have seen a mother with a young baby in her arms nearly fall because the bus driver took off suddenly before she could take a seat or grab on to something.
As for the older folks who push and shove, I find it easier to forgive them than the younger ones who really should know better.
Also, I often get elderly people offering me a seat when I’m accompanied by one or both of my children, and even teenagers. I am always pleasantly surprised, because I am often mistaken for the imported nanny/housekeeper due to my coloring and features, and we all know how that goes.
I also have had more than a few people grab onto my four year old before he took a tumble, and/or guide him to a seat.
What goes around definitely comes around.
Jennifer
I was wanting to address some of the comments made earlier about racism and the comparisons between the US and Taiwan. Racism, this hate of difference, seems to be a part of the human condition and exists evrywhere in the world. As for this implied my country is less racist than your country stuff, I say bollocks.
Taiwan is a relatively small and homogeneous country. Now consider for a moment that the US has 2.85 million people and one could easily make the assumption that there is at least one representative from every country in the world living there, if not thousands or millions. Sihks and Hindus, Kurds and Turks, Roma and English. Yes Racism does exist in the US, and its ugliest side is the home grown variety of racism stemming from one of the worst crimes against humanity, slavery. I think, at least from my experience here in Taiwan, that the palpable difference is that the US has been struggling and openly dealing with this nasty scar for a long time. That doesn’t mean that it has healed, but that people acknowledge that it exists and they talk about it in the courtrooms, schools, universities, churches, basketball courts, pool rooms and what have you. It is a national obsession.
In Taiwan, I don’t think people are as willing to acknowledge that racism exists. I have had local friends here lecture me on how racist the US is and then turn around two minutes later and make some snide (and awful) comment about how tight with money those Hakka (ke-jia-ren) are. Or watch people split their sides with laughter the second someone says AIDS. Or froth at the mouth at the mere mention of the Japanese. And as for Taiwan ever really confronting the dirty laundry of 228 and at least having some of those soldiers talk before they all die off… Well, you get my point.
In the end, if you tell me that the US is racist, I will whole heartedly agree with you and I also think that the tragedy of Vincent Chen could easily happen again. You hear about similar incidents at least once a year if not more often in the US. But one must at least tacitly accept that the very diversity which makes the US so strong will also have its dark side at times. There are just too many different people, with separate religious beliefs, age-old hatreds, cultural identities and other variables for ugly confrontations not to happen. But most Americans can look at themselves in the mirror and say to themselves that they are ashamed when they see it in their own.
I’m not sure most Taiwanese are ready for that last step, but there is nothing I would like to see more than some compelling evidence to prove me wrong.