Good Bye Chirac

Sorry Fred Smith no time to answer. Or I ll miss my plane for my holidays… again. Will not be about for a few weeks.

Well it is a high price to pay (the champaign) for a few cheers… and on the other hand many curses. Maybe if you say Vive Chirac and Vive Villepin (Joke)

TC, Kouchner is a great guy. Former french doctor, at the head of Medecins du Monde, was on the ground in Kosovo. So I m very happy he has been chosen for this assignment.
He approved the Iraq invasion back in 2002 because he said any dictatorship should be removed . Agree with that. But if I met him, I would ask him, what about Zimbabwe, what about Korea , why not go to Darfur immediately ?
I m waiting to see him in action (Darfur) as well as Sarkozy in the foreign affairs field.

Sarkosy taking two socialists in the government is going to destroy the socialists for the next election in June. He is getting the votes of some socialists (who will realise that expelling Kouchner is a childish act) and votes from the center (Bayrou). That s a very good move tactically. Also a young woman of moroccon origin.
Already we can feel the change of rhythm. Sarkozy is everywhere to be seen. (not like Chirac).
dablindfrog yes Vive la France. Got go go

This insistence on all or nothing is becoming extremely tiresome. Iraq had strategic implications that Zimbabwe and Darfur do not. Also, given the lack of success in nation building in Iraq, what makes you think that attempts in nations like Zimbabwe and Darfur would be more successful. Finally, the cost of invading or attacking North Korea outweighs the benefits. Without Chinese support, which we do not have, we can not realistically do anything. Couple that with no support for said action by the government of South Korea and you see where we are. We also do not realistically have the option of invading or attacking Iran at present.

This is why we have a diplomatic corps. Different countries with different leaders at different times required nuanced (I thought that the French loved this word) approaches. If all these nations are exactly the same and should be treated exactly the same with the exact same policies, why not just have the same policy carried out by one person sitting at a desk in DC?

Only 200 or so views. Will Fred Smith get the attention he so desperately craves? news at 11.

now that’s quite a turn around,
since when do the almighty US of A need support???
previous to invading iraq,the word was “support or not,we’ll prevail”

yeah right!
was there neighboring country support against iraq?
if not,why would the US need one now?

anyway,you managed to sum up a good ol’ coalition:roll: ,NK AND iran at the same time should be a piece of cake

[quote=“fred smith”]

This is why we have a diplomatic corps. [/quote]

hahahaha,ur too funny lately,diplomacy.

diplomacy is working wonders now all around iraq,isn’t it?

you 2 faced Chavez worshiper!!!
what’s different between iraq and NK??
unpredictable and violent leader:check
WMD:check (actually that’s one REAL threat that iraq didn’t even have!)
history of anti US feelings:check
see,nothing different between them 2

let me tell you the decisive difference:no OIL!

a air-head in an office anywhere in the world would have done a better job than any of your “war advisor’s” ,generals and monkey faced president put together :raspberry:

The invasion was a cake walk.

Where did it say the occupation would be?

Given that Bush has many of the same advisors as his father (who studiously chose to avoid the invasion), including Kenneth Pollack, what makes you think that no one in the administration anticipated the difficulties of keeping Iraq together? Ironically, this is why the smaller footprint (smaller occupation force) was deemed the way to go as they did not want to inflame Iraqi sensibilities.

Oil. The simpleton’s reply. Yes, it was about oil. Oil revenues give these tinpot dictators the weapons and money to act above their station. But it is not as presented about “controlling” Iraq’s oil otherwise if that were the case, why not the liberal shrieks about the pisspoor job we have done about taking control in any way shape or form over this resource?

All this sniping over the US action is nearly immoral on so many levels.

Was Saddam a bad person?
Did Saddam obey or respect international law?
Was Saddam one of the worst tyrants of the 20th century?
Was Saddam reformable?
Was Saddam a threat to his people and his neighbors?
Did Saddam have the plan and intent to build wmds?
Is Iraq and its stability in the interests of some of its neighbors but especially the West?
Is the US effort in Iraq contributing to this stability?
Is the US effort in Iraq to be supported in terms of humanitarian interests?

Once all these questions are answered, it becomes bewildering to me why so many are so interested in bashing the US and Bush. Again, if international law is your thing, then consider this…

While the US led effort did NOT receive the UN sanction, and is therefore NOT legal, it neither received UN condemnation and therefore technically is NOT illegal. Once the US led invasion had taken place, the UN voted to grant the US occupation authority. Ergo, a precedent similar to those in Bosnia and Kosovo and the first Gulf War had been set.

AND given that the US led effort had to invade to stop Saddam because sanctions were not, we have to examine why those sanctions were not working. In this regard, in addition to the neighboring countries, we have most notably France, China and Russia as those nations consisently flouting International Law and the resolutions enacted by the UN (all binding) and thus what are we to make of their “principled” opposition to the invasion. I mean if this is all about international law and such, why then not even more oppobrium heaped on these nations for contributing to the collapse of sanctions particularly when these actions were clearly ILLEGAL? Why more for the US action which was not legal but certainly not illegal?

We now have the EU and in particular Germany as the No. 1 trading partner of the mullahs in Iran. We have been told that this time negotiations not force will be the preferred and better option. How’s that working out? Not so well? Gee color me fucking suprised.

While it is cute that many people here have no end of opinions and that is their luxury and right to do so, the simple fact is that very few of these are realistically going to be enacted into any kind of policy. Discussing these in that context then takes on the interesting invective of heated barstool conversations. May pass the time, but a futile effort nonetheless.

More on Le Jacques …

Raid on spy’s home ‘reveals details of Chirac’s secret £30m bank account’
news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=805742007
[i]"Claims of Mr Chirac’s secret nest egg first came to the attention of the French authorities in 1996 when his friend Shoichi Osada, a Japanese banker, decided to invest £500 million in France, so triggering a routine investigation by the DGSE, which is said to have stumbled upon the then president’s Japanese account.

Thrown into a panic, Mr Chirac is said to have summoned Gen Rondot in 2001 and ordered him to destroy all DGSE evidence of the account. Unfortunately for the president, the spy simply removed the notes and memos about the affair to his home, where they were seized in March last year by Mr d’Huy and Mr Pons. Since then, the judges have been discreetly pursuing an investigation, interviewing 20 intelligence officers about the affair.

Mr Chirac is reported to have struck a deal with Mr Sarkozy, whereby the latter will push through judicial reforms ensuring the ex-president escapes prosecution. However, the magistrates are expected to move before the reforms are passed this summer."[/i]
[i]“Last year, Mr Chirac “categorically denied” having a bank account in Japan.”[/i]

Anybody getting any emails like this…?

"Honorable Sir

I contact you at last resort, hoping that you may assist me to mutual benefit. I am the former ruler of a European nation. I have £30 million in a Japanese bank, but can not access these funds. My political enemies tell many lies about me, and if they knew of this money would use the knowledge falsely to create a scandal. If you would act in complete confidence as my agent in the matter of transferring these funds…"

[quote=“SHARLEE”]
We re going to love America without Bush. Vive l Amerique et vive l’Europe.[/quote]

Who is “we’re”. Are you in communication with all of them? It’s always better to present facts rather then an opinion. That is fact.

double post

[quote=“shellbackdiver”]

Who is “we’re”. [/quote]

not being SHARLEE i can only assume she means the french,or even the entire world.

[quote=“shellbackdiver”]

Are you in communication with all of them? [/quote]

i’m sure that,since she lives in france,she’d have a pretty damn good idea about what the frenchs in general would feel like at the thoughts of a Bush free world.

i doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out the popularity-or lack thereof-of your beloved leader on the world stage,that is a fact

Thanks for the factual clarification.