cctang: Good explanation of China’s Internet censorship. But, are you saying YOU represent 1.3 billion Chinese, or that “Aurora” is saying that SHE does? I think Aurora may have resisted brainwashing…
But how come forumosa.com is not blocked for you? It has a lot of stuff about Falun Gong, Falun Dafa, Liberate Taiwan, Free Taiwan, Taiwan is Independent, Over 3,000 Unarmed Protestors Were Killed at Tiananmen Square in 1989 by PLA Soldiers, Down With CCP, etc.
ac_dropout: Uhhh… Google.com DOES NOT censor anything about America. Nothing at all. Your “hypothetical situation” is not even worth thinking about, because it doesn’t exist. And OBVIOUSLY if Google did that, there’d be a backlash. There are already so many Americans against what the USA is doing in the Middle-East.
I was being facetious. I try not to speak for all 1.3 billion Chinese, at least certainly not on points where I genuinely understand there’s serious disagreement and controversy. Aurora isn’t quite so humble.
As far as why Forumosa.com isn’t blocked… I’m sure there are specific pages on Forumosa that would be blocked automatically, but I’ve never seen it happen. I’m not on the mainland right now, but when I was last month, I had no issues. Same was true with the Taipei Times. UDN and China Times were blocked, however. I think there’s much greater latitude for English-language material than Chinese-language material.
No, not all results show that they are being blocked, in fact most do not. For example, Playboy.com does, because the domain is blocked and there are no results. But not when you’re looking for something like Tibet organizations or Tiananmen, and when there ARE RESULTS, theres no indications that the search results are skewed.
So Google is misleading the American public; when a search generates results, and is manipulated, the Chinese public is not informed.
No, not all results show that they are being blocked, in fact most do not. For example, Playboy.com does, because the domain is blocked and there are no results. But not when you’re looking for something like Tibet organizations or Tiananmen, and when there ARE RESULTS, theres no indications that the search results are skewed.
So Google is misleading the American public; when a search generates results, and is manipulated, the Chinese public is not informed.[/quote]
Christ, man. Are you really blind?
The “indication that the search results are skewed” are on every single one of the above searches with the sole exception of playboy.com. Which part of this is difficult for you to comprehend?
[quote=“X3M”]ac and cc:
The two of you need a reality check. Both of you are talking bullshit which would be cencored in China, but you still go on doing it because you can. :fume: :fume:
Why can’t you guys accept that we only want all Chinese to read/see what is going on around ther world, and in the neighbourhood? -Defending cencorship is really out of bounds and common sense!!![/quote]
I think you’re trying to say “I wish all Chinese would refer to Tiananmen as Tiananmen, instead of 6-4.”
Or more specifically you wished that everyone precieve the world as you do, expect the same search results as you do, and draw the same conclusion as you do.
I’m sure there some Chinese guy out there in China also wishing the same of foriegners from outside the PRC. “Why can’t they just see things the way I do.”
CCTang, could you point out to me, where, in this screenshot is any warnings about censorship? As I keep saying, Google censorship warnings are not on ALL pages, only SOME of the results.
You won’t acknowledge this, its like we’re playing a game of “make-pretend”.
I’m not advocating Playboy onto China, I’m pointing out that Google is being, at best, only partial honest, which means they’re also lying. I don’t see why you’re staunchly defending censorship of your people. Are you trying to say the Chinese people need censorship? That they’re not mature enough to interpret information on their own and make rational decisions?
[quote=“ShrimpCrackers”]CCTang, could you point out to me, where, in this screenshot is any warnings about censorship? As I keep saying, Google censorship warnings are not on ALL pages, only SOME of the results.
[/quote]
You’re loco. Here’s what you just said on your previous post:
Make up your mind.
And I’m also happy to report for your sake that the google.cn search for ‘playboy.com’ is now not being blocked:
[quote=“cctang”][quote=“ShrimpCrackers”]CCTang, could you point out to me, where, in this screenshot is any warnings about censorship? As I keep saying, Google censorship warnings are not on ALL pages, only SOME of the results.
[/quote]
You’re loco. Here’s what you just said on your previous post:
Make up your mind.
And I’m also happy to report for your sake that the google.cn search for ‘playboy.com’ is now not being blocked:
google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q= … .com&meta=[/quote]
Yes, thanks for pointing out that Google.Cn has been tweaking itself over time. During the time when I initially complained about Tibet and Tiananmen, there were no warnings, on top or on the bottom, and there are now. Its been gradually changing itself, as documented by you, and many other places like Diggnation and the images site pointed out before. But no matter because Google.cn is blocked in Beijing and various other places now anyway. Looks like your party heads can’t make up their minds.
[quote=“ShrimpCrackers”]
Yes, thanks for pointing out that Google.Cn has been tweaking itself over time. During the time when I initially complained about Tibet and Tiananmen, there were no warnings, on top or on the bottom, and there are now. Its been gradually changing itself, as documented by you, and many other places like Diggnation and the images site pointed out before. But no matter because Google.cn is blocked in Beijing and various other places now anyway. Looks like your party heads can’t make up their minds.[/quote]
I, for one, don’t think this ShrimpCrackers person has ever tried any of this himself. cctang pointed out that he doesn’t read Chinese; well I would like to point out he doesn’t even do his own research. He just takes others’ words. That’s why he is always behind the ball. Most fanatical TI’ers are like this.
For your information, Google.cn is not blocked in Beijing, as can be easily verified using a Beijing-based proxy. Google cache, which is sometimes blocked, is not currently blocked, either. Playboy also shows up on Google.cn searches. Get with the program.
Most of the conservative in the USA want to get rid of playboy. Look at the founder of Hustler, shot by a fanatic in the USA, and left in a wheelchair.
What kind of sympathy to you plan to garner with the hyperbole that the people in China can’t get enough smut. There’s 1.4 billion of them, don’t you think they’ve been doing enough work in the bedroom already without the need for smut.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]What does playboy have to do with anything?
Most of the conservative in the USA want to get rid of playboy. Look at the founder of Hustler, shot by a fanatic in the USA, and left in a wheelchair.
What kind of sympathy to you plan to garner with the hyperbole that the people in China can’t get enough smut. There’s 1.4 billion of them, don’t you think they’ve been doing enough work in the bedroom already without the need for smut.[/quote]
Not to mention this high class smut will keep restless Chinese men from considering threatening the sacred Ilha Formosa
I’m not so technical, don’t know if you’d be able to do it on your own, but when I was living with my boyfriend in China and surfing the net for human rights in china and looking for information from the taiwanese government, everything was blocked, eventhough the search-result from Google.dk/google.com showed pages about my search.
When I tried to click on the search-result-link the site was blocked.
Hmmm…a bit annoying since I was planning on reading about taiwan…
Later my boyfriend bought his company a new route/access (I guess it was :s ) and after that I could pretty much read everything I wanted!
Oh…by the way - for some reason I could ALWAYS find porn (Even the hardcore stuff)
zeugmite wrote:[quote]For your information, Google.cn is not blocked in Beijing, as can be easily verified using a Beijing-based proxy. Google cache, which is sometimes blocked, is not currently blocked, either. Playboy also shows up on Google.cn searches. Get with the program.[/quote]
Hello?! zeugmite - OF COURSE google.cn is NOT blocked in Beijing! YOU get with the programme!!!
tinster - good point. That’s exactly what ShrimpCrackers and I are saying.
The bottom line is that Google sucks - and so do all the other search engines that self-censor themselves just for the sake of a couple bucks in China. Who was that dude that said the Internet companies should not succumb to this strangling of human rights and put up a united front, rather than trying to beat each other to the “China market”?
Actually, I can read Chinese, and I tried to search for 台灣獨立 (Taiwan Independence) on google.cn - and it DID NOT say anything about self-filtering out certain results. And the only remotely relevant result I got was 台灣獨立運動 (Taiwan Independence Movement) from zh.wikipedia.org
With all the rage over this I’ve yet to see how google staying out of China somehow promotes free speech or better access to information. Even a censored form of google is better than the alternative of no google. Like anyone else, Google has to pick their battles and this is one they could never win. As for greed, sure Google wants to make money, but how’s that different than every other business?
Taiwan has freedom that boarder on anarchy most of the time. Is this form of freedom worth sacrificing security, peace and prosperity over?
Even the extreme TI supporters of Japanophile inclination have always cited the security, peace and prosperity of Japan’s rule over Taiwan as being more valuable than the freedom the KMT brought to Taiwan.
Fair enough question but it doesn’t really address the situation. Google allowing sensorship of google.cn doesn’t take away anyone’s freedom. People in china and anywhere else still have the same amount of freedom as before, when they had no Google whatsoever. If Google told China hell no we won’t let you censor us then China would just block them out altogether, and what good does that do for anyone?
[quote=“shawn_c”]Actually, I can read Chinese, and I tried to search for 台灣獨立 (Taiwan Independence) on google.cn - and it DID NOT say anything about self-filtering out certain results. And the only remotely relevant result I got was 台灣獨立運動 (Taiwan Independence Movement) from zh.wikipedia.org
[/quote]
Are you guys just incredibly unlucky, or what (I have a few theories on the ‘what’)? I just did exactly the same search, and found dramatically different results. Check for yourself:
World United Formusans for Independence (wufi.org.tw)
Society of Mainlanders for Taiwanese Independence (gati.org.tw)
As well as ET Today’s headline, and the Wikipedia article on the topic.
And at the bottom of it all: 据当地法律法规和政策，部分搜索结果未予显示。
EDIT: Ah, looks like the earlier guess was right. The issue is absolutely one of simplified versus traditional characters. Searching for 台灣獨立 in traditional format shows shawn_c’s results; in simplified, my results.
Well, this extreme TI supporter of Japanophile inclination prefers to cite the Taiwanese people’s perspective of days past…
“The Japanese were dogs, and the KMT are pigs. At least a dog is good for guarding one’s home.”
During the KMT’s first years in Taiwan, their troops overran public buildings, stripping them of fixtures, even doorknobs. Then, there was the large-scale pilfering of people’s residences whose contents were shipped back to the mainland. Stripping Taiwan of its wealth as if it were a conquered enemy territory did not sit well with locals.
No pain, no gain? As for the freedom the KMT brought to Taiwan, this must be the freedom to elect government officials. This only happened after many dangwai lost their freedom and lives fighting for it over the decades, finally ending the longest period of martial law in world history. Thank you very much.
