California congressional candidates Tan D. Nguyen has already started off the season with the first overtly dirty trick of the season – in Orange County, investigators are finding information directly linking him and his staff to a letter sent to 14,000 families in Spanish to tell them that:
Just to be clear on this point, it’s fine for legal immigrants to vote. This is just like the sort of intimidation that the GOP usually gets caught out on in Orange County. One of their previous candidates posted uniformed “security guards” at 20 predominantly-hispanic polling sites to scare legal, elgible hispanic voters into thinking that they were somehow breaking the law by voting – back then, the GOP had to pay $400,000 to settle out a civil suit brought against it. However, this sort of activity is exactly what the GOP is all about – get ready for more efforts to ensure that blacks, hispanics, and others are given incorrect information and otherwise threatened.
[quote]Nguyen, a Vietnamese immigrant whose opposition to illegal immigration has figured heavily in his underdog campaign, was not immediately available to react to the committee’s vote. His attorney, David Wiechert, said Thursday night that his client does not plan to quit.
‘‘Mr. Nguyen has no intention of dropping out of the race. He would do the public a disservice if he dropped out,’’ Wiechert said.
The attorney said he and Nguyen met with investigators for two hours Thursday. He described the meeting as ‘‘pleasant and professional’’ but declined to elaborate.[/quote]
Well mofangongren, at least we KNOW that the Democrats would NEVER do anything like this, right? Surely the complete integrity of the Democrats and the sure and certain knowledge that they would NEVER stoop to such shenanigans should make you feel a bit better?
Legal immigrants who are not naturalized cannot vote in federal elections; but to say all immigrants cannot vote in federal elections is wrong, as some have been naturalized. Furthermore, it will likely have the effect of confusing and scaring away some immigrants who would have the right to vote in some local and state elections. This is the crux of the problem with the letter, as it appears intended to scare away some legitimate immigrant voters.
For further clarity:
Legal immigrants who have become naturalized can vote in all elections.
Legal immigrants who are permanent residents but who have not become naturalized can vote in only some local and state elections, TTBOMU.
[quote]Voting
One of the most important privileges of democracy in the United States of America is the right to participate in choosing elected officials through voting. As a Permanent Resident you can only vote in local and state elections that do not require you to be a US citizen. It is very important that you do not vote in national, state or local elections that require a voter to be a US citizen when you are not a US citizen. There are criminal penalties for voting when you are not a US citizen and it is a requirement for voting. You can be removed (deported) from the US if you vote in elections limited to US citizens.[/quote] USGov source
Where does it say the letter was sent to ILLEGAL immigrants only? If you actually had read the article you would have noticed that it was sent to ‘Democratic voters’, which implies that those people are indeed eligable to vote.
Further the letter reads:
Seems pretty clear that he is suggestion no immigrant is allowed to vote and would be committing a crime, which is not true.
Put the two together and it’s pretty clear what he has been trying to do.
Where does it say the letter was sent to ILLEGAL immigrants only? If you actually had read the article you would have noticed that it was sent to ‘Democratic voters’, which implies that those people are indeed eligable to vote.
Further the letter reads:
Seems pretty clear that he is suggestion no immigrant is allowed to vote and would be committing a crime, which is not true.
Put the two together and it’s pretty clear what he has been trying to do.[/quote]
Yeah, I just caught that reading through the posts. I have edited my original post since you have captured it here. I didn’t read the article because I have not registered to NYT online.
You’re correct; acc. to the IHT article, [quote]Several of the people who received the letters appeared to be naturalized citizens, said John Trasvina, interim president and general counsel for the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund. Naturalized citizens can register to vote[/quote]
Note the Attorney General’s opinion on this:
[quote]Nathan Barankin, a spokesman for state Attorney General Bill Lockyer, said… The sender could be charged with a felony and receive up to three years in state prison[/quote]
[quote]The reports of letters being sent to Hispanic voters in California warning them that it is crime for immigrants to vote in an election is extremely alarming. Whoever sent these letters committed both a despicable act of political intimidation and a hate crime and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Nothing is more un-American than the kind of political intimidation represented by these acts. Further, targeting voters of Hispanic descent is racist and constitutes a hate crime under California law. [/quote]
According to Spanish language news sites, which I’m searching for a copy of the original letter (no luck so far), the FBI is also pursuing the senders. This very poor partial copyis all I’ve got so far. Here’s a Spanish excerpt from a news site:
Wow, are you channeling Fred? This is the same sort of reaction I got when I pointed out the GOP’s 2000 and 2004 efforts to distribute lists of “felons” that were used to keep similar-named persons in Florida from being allowed to vote. Then Texas gov. Bush had sent lists of Texas felons to then-FL gov. Bush – people with only similar names were then stopped. The NAACP sued over it and got a settlement in 2000. Although it was legit voters being turned away on bogus grounds, I still remember Fred, MaPoSquid and the others screaming that it’s perfectly OK to block felons from voting when that was never the issue of contention.
So now we’ve got you making this bogus claim that we’re talking about illegal immigrants. The strawman alert here has reached Ray Bolgerian proportions.
Well, why would they? In this particular district, a Democratic candidate surnamed Sanchez wouldn’t really want to block the hispanic vote for anything in this world. For the past many years, the Republicans have made a great run of playing race politics – from George W. Bush in 1988 with his “Willie Horton” ads, through to Rovian push-polling suggesting “mixed race love children” and various other ploys.
No, I just meant the Dems would NEVER do anything underhand. I mean, just ASK a republican to find evidence of Democratic sneakiness or illegal acts or anything like that. Of course you’ll have to wait for a long, long time, as the Dems are blemish-free.
Just because there are some Dems who break the law doesn’t mean we shouldn’t criticize Republicans (and Dems) when they break the law, Sandman. Your comment doesn’t seem relevant to me.
Oh, JD, here’s my rough translation of the portion of the letter visible in the pic file I linked to above:
[quote]Greetings Nellie Diaz,
This letter is being sent to you because you are registered to vote. If you are a US citizen, we ask that you participate in the democratic process of voting.
You are notified that if your residence in this country is illegal or if you are an immigrant, voting in a federal election is a crime which may…[/quote]
Technically correct, but IMO intended to intimidate, and I agree with Schwarzie that targeting registered voters of a specific ethnicity with such a letter is a hate crime.
Relevant? Whatever. Politicians acting like scum are just that. When’s the last time you saw Mofangongren criticize ANYONE other than the GOP. That’s my point.
I generally share your lack of respect, DB, for the argument (so often heard in political debate) which says “Oh yeah? Well, so-and-so in YOUR party did [some other terrible thing]!” It’s a pretty worthless point in so far as it is intended to excuse the initial bad act being discussed.
In this case, however, I think that Sandman may have been reacting to the tone of MFGR’s post (starting with the name of the thread) which suggests that this letter was somehow endorsed by or planned by the GOP.
In fact, notwithstanding the fact that the candidate has fired the staffer who wrote the letter, the California GOP has said that the candidate should withdraw from the race if it turns out that he knew about the letter before it went out. The Orange County GOP has taken an even harder line, and called on the candidate to withdraw even if it is not shown that he had knowledge of the letter.
MFGR could have said: “Orange County GOP takes hard line against alleged candidate misconduct” or “Candidate fires staffer in response to letter – GOP Still Insists that Candidate Withdraw”, or even (if you really insist on giving it a partisan slant by not mentioning the fact that the GOP wants to kick this guy out) “Republican Candidate Accused of Dirty Tricks”
Instead we get “GOP Starts Using Dirty Tricks”. :s
When such pains are taken to misleadingly present the story as one of party, rather individual misconduct, the implication is that this story is really about the GOP as compared to the Democrats – that one party does “dirty tricks” and that the other does not. That was the notion that I think Sandman found amusing.
How the hell do you DO it Hobbes? Thanks.
Its just the colours – you can’t REALLY express yourself so much better than I can. That’s it. The colours. People would be able to figure out what I meant if I could figure out how to use colours.
OK, go ahead and pretend we haven’t seen this sort of voter intimidation before as business-as-usual for the GOP under Rove. Sure, the GOPpers were ready to come out and condemn it once it was exposed widely via the Associated Press and other stories. Who wouldn’t? But don’t come along pretending this isn’t something we haven’t seen straight out of the GOP playbook time and time again in recent elections.
Trent Lott figured he was among good friends when he expressed his fervent wishes that Strom Thurmond had been elected president in 1948 on a platform that consisted in its entirety of segregating blacks. Lott figured we could’ve avoided some of the “problems” we’ve had all these many years if only we’d had President Thurmond keeping the blacks and whites separate.
Rove was glad to use the race card to smash down a fellow Republican in the South Carolina primaries in 2000 – using push-polling tactics to suggest that John McCain’s adopted Bangladeshi daughter was “actually” a mixed-race love child.
In this same district, it wasn’t all that long ago that the Republican candidate had uniformed “security guards” running about supposedly to “keep illegal aliens from voting” at polling sites. In other districts, there have been other Republican efforts to spread misinformation about the polls.
Yes, it is a matter of the GOP having a record of tolerating and encouraging this sort of election intimidation. Yes, it is a matter of the GOP gleefully playing race politics. LBJ observed upon pushing through the key laws that were supposed to destroy the Jim Crow era that the Democratic Party had lost the South for a generation – and boy have the Republicans tried to take full advantage of that. The supposed “party of Lincoln” has made a great political living pandering to the worst notions of prejudice and fear existing in the American society.
Hobbes, you want this to be about individuals – then perhaps some individuals ought to grow a pair and do something to shape up their party before it starts another shitty war, presides over years more of child abuse, or uses racist campaigning to divide America. Most of us consider ourselves stakeholders in the American society – “shareholders” if you need the corporate terminology – our nation and our government is not some sort of political “game” that has to be won or lost at the expense of anybody else. But that’s what we’ve got, thanks to Rove’s brilliant ideas about how to carve up the nation. We don’t want that crap anymore. I’ll be standing over here with the Americans who value family, healthy kids, sensible government spending, solid foreign policy, a strong defense, and policies that encourage Americans to do and be the best – you’re welcome anytime to brush your teeth and join up with us.
Isn’t that exactly what happened? To me, as a disinterested bystander, you just perfectly illustrated Hobbes point. Your entire premise is simply your idea that GOP this, GOP that, GOP the other.
It’s the GOP that is disciplining this guy, not anyone else.
THAT’S why its so difficult to take you seriously on this subject – you seem to have tunnel vision.
Surely it’s impossible to vote if you’re not eligible.
I mean, you have to register to vote, don’t you? Isn’t there some kind of check in that process to verify a persons eligibility? Even simply a question to make sure you are a citizen or naturalized resident.
And then when you go to the polling booth, don’t you need to have your name marked off against the electoral roll before you can cast a vote?
So it would be impossible for a non-eligible person to actually cast a vote, wouldn’t it? Hence, no laws could be broken. So what’s the point of mentioning it in the letter in the first place?
[quote=“cfimages”]Surely it’s impossible to vote if you’re not eligible.
I mean, you have to register to vote, don’t you? Isn’t there some kind of check in that process to verify a persons eligibility? Even simply a question to make sure you are a citizen or naturalized resident.
And then when you go to the polling booth, don’t you need to have your name marked off against the electoral roll before you can cast a vote?
So it would be impossible for a non-eligible person to actually cast a vote, wouldn’t it? Hence, no laws could be broken. So what’s the point of mentioning it in the letter in the first place?[/quote]
Yes, but I think the point of the letter was to scare legitimate voters who are immigrants from voting. It seems that the author of the letter was hoping recent naturalized immigrants, ones who have a lawful right to vote in the upcoming federal election, would read the letter and fail to vote out of fear that they would be breaking the law. The letter was trying to take advantage of any lack of understanding that these people may have of their rights as U.S. citizens.
I don’t think the letter was necessarily intended for illegal immigrants or legal immigrants who cannot vote. It seems that the purpose of the letter was to scare off legitimate voters. It was not written to be logical or legally correct.
