Got Fired

He’s either going to fold soon or is planning to buy a new Lexus or house … :wink:

I suppose the best way is to do part-time at two places. That way you make more than you would at one job and you don’t cost your boss too much of the profit he’s making. Good thing they make it legal to have two employers now.

Define irony.

A guy with no educational background telling you that you have classroom mangement issues.

Dude, the problem is that you were working for them for a higher wage than another guy. In their minds, i.e. Taiwanese Buxiban owners, you don’t actually provide anything other than being a foreign face. People may write in and say I am wrong, but that is the plain truth of it. You may work for a buxiban for 10 years and you will never be more than just a face. These people don’t know what a good teacher is, because they aren’t judging those standards. They know what a cheap teacher is, they know what a teacher who retains students is, and they know what a teacher who doesn’t rock the boat is. The first will always outweigh the second. The second will always outweigh the third. Remember also that the Laoban will trust his/her ability to get new students over you abilities as a teacher. So even of you are ‘teacher of the friggin month’ who cares. Retain as many students as you like, but when you become too expensive you have to go. Also remember that the Laoban doesn’t actually care whether the student LEARNS or not, only that they re-sign, and most importantly, that mother pays on time. If you mistake yourself for an educator, check again. You are a business tool, as is the student. Harsh but true.

The only thing you can expect as a buxiban employee (with a Taiwanese boss - qualifier) is to be f*cked around from the moment you start to the moment they fire you.

[color=blue]Caveat emptor, there are a miniscule number of exceptions as is the case with all things. [/color]

I feel sorry for you, and sorry for Dangermouse too. Funk500 has also been through the wash recently. What is the real shame is that you guys are left feeling that somehow you fcked up. It is in their interest to fck you over, cos another, cheaper ‘potato’ is stepping off the plane as we speak.

Potatoes, you stick a fork in the ground, turn over the dirt, and there they are!

1 rule and 1 rule only, keep your morals.

This is one of the most honest, straight-to-the-bone, summarizations of the Taiwanese buxiban secene I’ve read on here. It also applies to Korean hogwans and Japanese eikaiwas.

A great post!

Hear, hear! Well said Tom Hill. It’s a spirit crushing blow to find out you’re just a little cog in a nasty big machine, and the best way to keep your job is to not do it, but there you go. This is the private sector. Business. Profit. You are a cost centre. When your average cost exceeds your average revenue you get fired.

Almost. But you never come close costing more than you bring in.
It’s when your average cost exceeds the average cost of any other component on the market plus the the average expense of bringing you that you get screwed.

They’d rather give you a small token raise and keep you happy so they don’t lose any students if you transfer, but several small raises quickly make you a liability not worth the potential for lost students.

You know, I know there are a lot of times where schools do a lot of unprofessional and crappy things. However, wouldn’t it be interesting if everyone in this forum didn’t automatically assume that it CAN’T possibly be the teachers fault…

I mean, I think we can agree that is part of the problem as well…

[quote=“Taiwaner”]You know, I know there are a lot of times where schools do a lot of unprofessional and crappy things. However, wouldn’t it be interesting if everyone in this forum didn’t automatically assume that it CAN’T possibly be the teachers fault…

I mean, I think we can agree that is part of the problem as well…[/quote]
But in the case of one week saying they hope you can stay for years and then a week later saying you are terminated for having poor classroom management? No warning? Just, “So long, and thanks for all the fish?”

If a teacher does have poor classroom management skills the manager should spend some time training him or her. Then if things don’t improve issue a warning, and finally terminte the teacher. That’s a fair process, and the teacher would be terminated for “cause”. There is a contract involved here, isn’t there?

You’re right. Here, we do often assume the school is the culprit since we are getting the teacher’s version and not the school’s and many of us are sympathetic to the teacher role since we have been there before (or are there still). But assuming the facts are as they were presented by the OP, I think in this case it’s safe to say that at the very minimum the school is acting unprofessionally.

From what I see, most contracts in Taiwan don’t protect the employee. They should have a schedule that cannot be changed and a guaranteed monthly salary. Whether you’re teaching 80 hours/month or 120 on a 120/month contract, the salary should not change. That’s the school’s problem. Anything over is OT. Anything under is “too bad, so sad, boss”.

[quote=“Taiwaner”]You know, I know there are a lot of times where schools do a lot of unprofessional and crappy things. However, wouldn’t it be interesting if everyone in this forum didn’t automatically assume that it CAN’T possibly be the teachers fault…

I mean, I think we can agree that is part of the problem as well…[/quote]

Well, in my case he hadn’t observed my classes since the first week - three months ago - and now he starts taking away classes from me three months later even though he hadn’t monitored my progress in this one particular “problem class” since. And he didn’t even take away the problem class - he took away my intermediate writing classes and transferred them to a Chinese teacher who has no experience in teaching writing and has repeatedly asked me to help her edit the kids’ papers…

I mean, to fire you or take classes away without warning is kind of fishy, especially when this practice of cutting costs by reducing the foreign teacher to a goofy white mascot is so common. I just wish he had told me he wants to save money rather than slander my teaching without giving me any actual constructive criticism or explain what he doesn’t like about the way I say the phonics sounds. Of course he’s not a teacher either so…I just wonder why he went through the trouble of getting me an ARC - hope he doesn’t cancle it.

And my coworkers have degrees in education…and he’s been “punishing” them as well. I’d like the parent’s to know what’s really going on there.

I wasn’t saying that it was the original OP’s fault… I’m sorry if it seemed I was. It certainly seems that the school is wrong in your situation. I was making a general comment.

As a general rule, I think teachers do more wrong on this island than schools. This opinion may anger a lot of people, but I think it’s more or less true.

Is it any different back home? I think teachers here in Taiwan have WAY more job security than most people back home. People get laid off all the time back in the States. As many people have noted, it doesn’t take much to get a job here in Taiwan.
If you get laid off at home, you blame the job or the employer, not the entire country. In this country, people many times blame the entire country of Taiwan, the culture, etc. I don’t really think that’s very fair…

Anyway, maybe this is a topic better for another thread! It might make for an interesting one… :slight_smile:

The few times I’ve gone out with a group of English teachers most have been pretty cool but without exception there is always one or two that lack the basic social skills to hold a civilized conversation. I can just imagine these are the same ones that are having the shouting bouts with their supervisors, making serious cultural blunders, etc. etc. Many posters also claim they are up teacher of the year and/or have two-year waiting list for their class before they are inexcusable let go. My guess is there ability to understand/read their environment is fairly poor.

Well, I’ll say this:

I know a LOT of teachers here in Taiwan. I’ve met a good number of teachers who have told me they were fired/let go from their schools. In about 90% of these cases, it was obvious almost immediately to me why. Sometimes it was their attitude, sometimes it was a lack of being able to hold a typical conversation. There could be a variety of reasons. Either way, it was readily apparent that they were people who would have problems succeeding anywhere. Everyone around them understood why.

It doesn’t sound like the original OP was one of these type of people. It sounds like he was one of the 10%. His situation seems like he was really wronged.

Anyway, my point is that a lot of teachers could look in the mirror and find ways to improve. The negativity in this thread is pretty interesting…

A good teacher in Taiwan is like GOLD. A good teacher in Taiwan probably has more job security than anyone in the world. Of course, sometimes schools lose students, or close down. In such a case, they would need to let their employees go. But, that is the case anywhere.

Anyway, I think I’m off on a tangent again that doesn’t have much to do with this original thread. My overall point is that schools could do a lot to improve… but so could teachers.

What world are you living in? Teachers in North America have way more job security than teachers in Taiwan. Teachers back home must have a reason to be fired, not just sacked overnight on a boss’ whim. Have you ever held an actual job in the U.S. or Canada, much less Europe (where apparently it’s close to impossible to be fired in many countries)? Taiwan is a system of pure, raw, robber baron capitalism, where there is practically no social safety net and all the power is in the hands of the employers, where workers’ rights have only begun to barely exist. You can’t even by fired from McDonald’s in America without “just cause”, or else the ex-employer will have to help fund your unemployment checks. That system doesn’t exist in Taiwan, at least not for English teaching jobs, so employers have nothing to lose by firing employees at any whim. Your statement that

is wildly over the top. It does not jibe with reality. Do you know how hard it is to fire government employees back home? Unless there’s gross incompetence, getting caught screwing students, peddling drugs on the side, etc., teachers back home just don’t get fired. Lots of teachers back home do terrible jobs and stay on for 20 years until they get their pensions, something they couldn’t get away with in an environment like Taiwan.

Yeah, really. Even between Taiwan, Japan and Korea, Taiwan probably has the least secure jobs.

I’d agree that government workers in the States have more job security than teachers in Taiwan. Same goes for public school teachers back home. But, its a LOT harder to find those jobs to begin with back home. I know a lot of public school teachers who CAN’T find teaching jobs outside of the poorest areas in the country.

And for those who would complain about the behavior of students in Taiwan… I’d ask you to teach for a year in Harlem, The Bronx, or many places in Los Angeles. Trust me, you’d never complain again.

Mod Lang: Have you ever heard of someone (qualified) who COULDN’T find a job in Taiwan? I never have. Obviously, this doesn’t include minorities who are clearly HORRIBLY treated in Taiwan.

Anyway, I don’t want to get in a big argument about this… I was just making the point that it’s not always the schools fault. Fair, I think.

[quote=“Taiwaner”]Well, I’ll say this:

A good teacher in Taiwan is like GOLD. A good teacher in Taiwan probably has more job security than anyone in the world. [/quote]

I am that ‘golden’ teacher, and I can tell you, that this has been one long f*ck about from day ONE. A GOLD teacher is even more problematic to the school, as they know what BS goes on day tp day. I find that my ‘knowledge’ and ‘training’ run counter to the way schools want things done here. Taiwanese schools rule NUMBER 1, “Do what I say or else.” Go read through other threads, even foreign owners have said they wouldn’t want teachers who had their own ideas or attempted to be creative. Automoton Don, thats what they want.
Take your blinkers off please. A good teacher in Taiwan is a pain in the *ss for many many reasons. A teacher in Taiwan who gets fired didn’t always deserve it, ask Dangermouse.

I agree. But saying it’s more often the teacher’s fault than the school’s is going a bit far.

What I think we assume too often on the part of the school is “bad faith”. I was recently treated in a poor way by a school. An oral contract where I had fulfilled my part of the bargain already was suddenly tossed out, leaving me in a vulnerable situation. But I think they are acting in accordance with what they really believe to be right according to their viewpoint.

I don’t think schools are always out to cheat or screw us over when policies work against us. But whenever there’s a report of a discrepancy we always seem to assume the worst of the school management.

You have a point, we do side with the teacher blindly in some instances. But I think the general argument that the employment conditions here are sub-standard and heavily weighted to the side of employers is also very valid.

Ha, I should have know what I was getting here… silly me for forgetting that it’s many times difficult on Forumosa to express another opinion in a mature way without being personally attacked… Thanks to Puwaihun for expressing your response in a similar way to how I expressed it.

I won’t be taken down that road, but I do stand by what I said: It’s not as one sided as it might seem from these posts.

I’ll leave you with this thought:
When Ramblin’ Rube says that Taiwan is a “Good place to take a dump, make some coin and leave before your contract is over to screw your school” (a thought which essentially dismisses an entire country) and no one takes umbrage with THAT perspective, but DO with my perspective… then, well I think things might be a little off base.

Comment removed by TomHill.