Got Fired

Well, you were asking to get flamed, Taiweiner.

This stereotyping of your “typical foreign teacher in Taiwan” really seems like more of the same prejudiced crap about foreign teachers that I’ve been hearing since I arrived in this country. Certainly I’ve met my fair share of degenerates, but that was when I spent that one month working for Hess (not to stereotype about Hess, just an experience) - after that, my my coworkers at my other two schools were middle aged, highly experienced teachers who held advanced degrees. But those schools also used more alternative, Western methods rather than the traditional buxibans.

As for a good teacher being GOLD in Taiwan, that made me laugh my frigging arse off. Yeah, GOLD. It’s a buxiban, not a real school, Weiner. That’s why when another long time teacher quit my school yesterday (third one in three months), my boss didn’t care - just put up another up another ad on Tealit looking for another “Caucasian teacher with North American/Canadian accent preferred.” My boss even told me he’s not looking for teachers use any creative methods to disrupt his “system,” he just wants them all of “the same uniform quality.” Though he doesn’t offer any training at his school.

Anyway, my point is that a lot of buxiban owners could look in the mirror and find ways to improve. The negativity in this thread is pretty interesting… :wink: :s

A good laoban in Taiwan is like GOLD.

As for the negativity in this thread, did you actually expect that everyone would politely agree or disagree after you suggested that the vast majority of English teachers are a bunch of lowlife mongoloids with hardly the capacity to form a proper sentence?

That’s like my grandfather going around town complaining about the dumb flatfooted Irish cop, the diabolical Jewish money lender, and the watermelon stealing darkies. You’ve got to expect retaliation in a thread like this.

Right on! :bravo:

My advice for teachers is if they have a decent gig then hang on to it. The ESL industry is ripe for a downfall and I suggest that you stay put for now if you are satisfied with where you are at. Chasing that extra 25NT an hour might not be worth it if you have to sacrifice job security to get it.

School owners are in it for the profit and most see rent and NSTs’ salaries as money vampires. (I pay close to 800,000NT a month in teachers’ salaries alone). Owners look closely at both and they are looking for ways to cut those two costs.

I try to explain this to the teachers who work for me. I try to let them know why I have the salary cap that I do. It makes the schools more stable and it insures them of having enough hours.

Well, I certainly was asking to be flamed… I mostly expected it :slight_smile:

I do think you exaggerated a lot of my points. I never said anything close to MOST English teachers had problems. I wasn’t stereotyping anybody at all.

I’ve said it a bunch of times… obviously your case was an example of you certainly being wronged. Perhaps this was the wrong thread to say this in.

By the way, my “A good teacher is Gold” comment could use a little context. I meant that from the perspective of the school owner. In short, if you keep their students and put on a good show, they will love you. That’s not necessarily what I consider to be a good teacher… I’d say that’s a separate issue though. I was talking about job security in general. What makes a “Good teacher” is a totally different topic… actually we had a great discussion about this in another thread pretty recently :slight_smile:

Overall, this is an interesting discussion and one worth having. If it was an easy discussion and everyone agreed, then it wouldn’t be as interesting… I think we can keep personal shots out of it though.

I made my judgements about OP’s situation based on the information he provided. He was let go suddenly after being praised just days before. That fact alone makes the dismissal suspect. I’ve worked in my fair share of jobs here at this point. The behaviour OP describes is eerily similar to the rash, spur of the moment decision making a lot of local managers are prone to. I stand by what I said (provided the information OP posted was correct). His dismissal in all likelihood has little to do with his in-class performance.

I also hear what you are saying, Taiwaner. There are many an irresponsible foreign teacher to be found here. Fault absolutely does not lie with the schools all the time (possibly not even most of the time). All I can say is the irresponsible teacher and the impulsive, disorganized local manager are a match made in heaven; they deserve each other.

Being highly qualified and talented teacher is only part of the equation. You also must learn in integrate with your colleagues and work pragmatically with the administration. This is not exclusive to teaching English in Taiwan. There are many things that happen in my office that I don

[quote=“Taiwaner”]

By the way, my “A good teacher is Gold” comment could use a little context. I meant that from the perspective of the school owner. [color=red]In short, if you keep their students and put on a good show, they will love you. [/color]

[quote]

I have to disagree with this point of view. There is a cost ratio to consider, and ANY teacher who falls into the category of ‘too expensive’ is a liability. ‘Too expensive’ beats out ‘retains students’ ‘pleases parents’ and ‘won’t rock the boat,’ as I wrote in a previous post. The Laoban will get rid of you, hire a newbie, and get in new students to cover the shortfall. They may even lie to the parents and tell them any one of a number of lies about why you are leaving. "Going home, doesn’t like working here etc.) In a country where counting the pennies, and saving your face are the two most important attributes to groom, why is it so surprising that this attitude permeates throughout the buxiban system too?

I agree that this can happen some of the time, but it’s far from the rule. I’d go as far to say that it is a very small segment of schools… but you would likely disagree. I think most schools are upset when their teacher leaves and would be much happier with them staying.

Now THAT is a stereotype :slight_smile:
Dismissing an entire culture like that is not a very fair position. This country deserves a lot more credit than that.
It’s your opinion to have, but I’d say it’s a pretty extreme one and not very accurate.

Taiwaner, this site functions to support the international community. You can hold your belief that your fellow foreign resident is a nincumpoop-- and that most if not all buxibans are victims of the abuse these teachers bring-- if you want. I believe expressing it here isn’t helpful. Local schools and companies have their own support networks. Don’t pillory people for trying to be supportive of someone who was quite likely mistreated and, as a result, may have experienced some degree of hardship.

I suggest you re-examine your premise that foreign employees (except you, right :wink: ) are more often at fault than employers here. I suggest that you may be wrong in that assumption.

This site is a service to the foreign community. Let’s all try to be supportive of each other.

In retrospect, there was no good way possible for me to say, “Sometimes it’s the teachers fault too”. That’s really all I’ve said.

I would have been beat up for that comment no matter how nicely I said it… so I’m not complaining.

I still think it’s not such an evil thing to say though. :help:

I think most people here are intelligent adults. It’s obvious that “sometimes it’s the teacher’s fault too.” It doesn’t need to be stated all the time and it’s not very helpful in a thread where the OP was more than likely the victim of poor management.

This is hilarious

Toasty, I’d be willing to bet that if you took a poll of newbies who read this thread, they would most certainly NOT think it was “obvious” that sometimes it was the teachers fault too.

If I were sitting home in the States pondering a move to Taiwan, this thread would make me think twice, three and four times. I just don’t think a lot of the opinions expressed here necessarily reflected reality. I attempted to show a different perspective. Is that not what a forum is for? Are you trying to censor my opinion? I qualified my statement NUMEROUS times to say that I wasn’t talking about the OP, but rather the teaching environment in Taiwan, in general.

I expressed my opinion in an extremely polite, and non-confrontational way. In fact, I’d like to hear how I could possibly have expressed it any more nicely.

You saying that my opinion doesn’t belong here is extremely condescending.

Ok, I’ll get back to just patting everyone on the back the way they want :laughing:

Of course it is possible to offer a contradictory statement, and of course there is a way to offer it. Your post did not put it in a good way. Let me show you the parts which I felt were badly put:

This argument is weak. This argument is not backed up, regardless of supporting the Buxiban over the teachers.

Do you? What percentage of ALL the teachers here do you know? Have you met me?

In what capacity have you met these people? With what measuremnts have you made these assessments ‘that EVERYONE’ agrees with. These comments are spurious at best, and make it sound like you can easily judge what is wrong with people. Are you a consultant, or just opinionated?

You could therefore start a new thread.

If you want to say that: ‘One shouldn’t always focus squarely on the mistakes of the Laoban, and that sometimes the teacher is at fault,’ your comments would have been duly noted.

I for one read your comments as being ill thought out, and deliberately inflammatory.

Ok, well I can see how some of those comments could be taken as Tom Hill judged them. However, this is a place for opinions. I’m not writing a term paper here where I have to back up my statements with documented evidence. What I said about teachers was even CLOSE to what has been said about schools (as Purple said as well).

Look, what happened is that I jumped in and said something different than a lot of people who are angry (and rightly so). No matter how I expressed these opinions, people were bound to be upset.

Anyway, I think we all seem to agree with the point I was making: “It’s not always the schools fault”. I’ll happily leave it at that.

[quote=“purple people eaters”]This is hilarious

Your saying that I didn’t support the OP is a ridiculous exaggeration of what I said. I’ve said, in practically every post, that his situation seems quite obviously wrong.

I think Purple was talking about comments like this:

Ramblin Rube said:

[quote]Those other pus holes of Asia are just that compared to the shit that goes on in Taiwan. Yet, for any short termers, my advice has always been, and still is, do your one year or two, cut your contract short before your laoban can, laugh your ass off all the way to the bank and fuck Taiwan. As for the other piss stops in Asia, that’s exactly what they are. At least Taiwan is a good place to take a dump and leave with some coin.
[/quote]

How is it that people are offended by my and Purple’s statements, but NOT by the above?

Clarification: I wonder at the suitability of your opinion in this thread, not whether or not you actually support the OP. Nice to know you do, though.

Why imply people like myself would support Rube (which I don’t) just because we condemn an obviously irresponsible employer? Let’s avoid the red herrings here and stay on topic.

I think what Purple and I have said about the posts in this thread is very relevant. It’s interesting that everyone would jump down our throats for saying, “Maybe it’s not all the schools fault, all the time”

Meanwhile, someone else has basically dismissed Taiwan as a country and called it a shithole and everyone remains silent…

I think there is some relevance there. Maybe I’m just crazy.

The closest thing to job security is to be some place where:
a) schools are clamouring for foreigners.
b) no foreigner wants live.

[quote=“Taiwaner”]I think what Purple and I have said about the posts in this thread is very relevant. It’s interesting that everyone would jump down our throats for saying, “Maybe it’s not all the schools fault, all the time”

Meanwhile, someone else has basically dismissed Taiwan as a country and called it a shithole and everyone remains silent…

I think there is some relevance there. Maybe I’m just crazy.[/quote]

I strongly disagree with Rube’s comments. Does that satisfy you?

Still, I feel you are taking this thread in the wrong direction. Supporting a mistreated teacher does not equal a) ignoring the fact that irresponsible employees exist–indeed stating such is not needed in a discussion like this one b) supporting a teacher in Taiwan does not equal supporting far-out comments about Taiwan being a “shithole.”

I fail to see the relevence. You even agree OP was mistreated. Your comments seem out of place in light of your actual opinion of the OP’s problem (and hence the original purpose of this thread).