will it be positive for Taiwan?
0 voters
Government again urges Lien to talk to Chen before trip
The Presidential Office repeated its call yesterday for Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) Chairman Lien Chan (連戰) to meet with President Chen Shui-bian (陳水扁) to discuss the agenda of his planned trip to China.
call me a cynic but he’s upto something!
surely he can’t do anything useful after the exploits of the last election and since
i think he’s a dodgy git and
:loco:
all views welcome.
Since Lian Zhan is not a member of or advisor to the government, nor a civil servant or member of the armed forces, I don’t see what business Chen Shuibian has intervening in his travel arrangements.
you might want ot clarify the poll a bit. What will be positive for Taiwan? That Lian Zhan goes and sees the President, or that he goes to China?
Seeing as he is not a member of the government then what right does he have making negotiations on my behalf and other ROC citizens.
This smacks of the KMT being so corrupted by power trips that they are suffering withdrawel symptoms and need help to cure their mental illness.
These people are only interested in power, they are not interested in helping anyone but themselves. They’d sell their own mothers and daughters if was worthwhile.
[quote=“Satellite TV”]
Seeing as he is not a member of the government then what right does he have making negotiations on my behalf and other ROC citizens.
This smacks of the KMT being so corrupted by power trips that they are suffering withdrawel symptoms and need help to cure their mental illness.
These people are only interested in power, they are not interested in helping anyone but themselves. They’d sell their own mothers and daughters if was worthwhile.[/quote] 
:bravo: :bravo: :bravo: AMEN
clarification of the poll -
NO for it’s not good for Taiwan, it’s suck up to china and kiss butt which is not positive for Taiwan
YES it’s useful and good for Taiwan that Lien Chan is going to China.
Hows that Mr. He?
Seeing as he is not a member of the government then what right does he have making negotiations on my behalf and other ROC citizens.[/quote]
As chairman of a political party, he can negotiate on behalf of his party and its supporters.
Seeing as he is not a member of the government then what right does he have making negotiations on my behalf and other ROC citizens.[/quote]
As chairman of a political party, he can negotiate on behalf of his party and its supporters.[/quote]
So now you would advocate that all opposition political party leaders start going overseas cutting new deals with foreign governments? What nonsense…
So elected governments are not to be negotiated with… hmmmm :raspberry: :raspberry:
Let’s see of the leader of the US Democrats doesnt hop on a plane and go visit Rasputin oops… I meant Putin in Russia and negotiate the sale of Alaska back to the Russians… that wouldn’t mean much I’m sure 
Would you trust this man to negotiate your country’s future?
Governments negotiate with governments, parties negotiate with parties. It happens all the time. Do you think the DPP asked Lee Teng-Hui’s permission before joining the Liberal International? Do you think Zhirinovsky asked the Russian president’s permission before visiting Taiwan? The KMT has been variously collaborating, fighting and negotiating with the Chinese Communist Party since 1921. They haven’t done any fighting recently and want to try negotiating for a change. Chen Shuibian and Annette Lu have both visited the mainland too, you know. Don’t you think they might have done a little negotiation while they were there?
[quote=“Juba”]
Governments negotiate with governments, parties negotiate with parties.[/quote]
I don’t necessarily disagree with the rest of what you’ve written, but the KMT is walking along a very thin line since in the PRC, the party is the state.
Lien chan as an ex leader of the KMT ( all bar the shouting! ) should be allowed to go as a free citizen but should refrain from interfering in Taiwan politics due to the fact that he is a twice defeated moron of the highest order, how did he get so far? :loco:
His passport should be witheld until he signs a document that states no political activity. passports are witheld from known football hooligans in England when it comes to important international matches 
i reckon that’s democracy, keep a known stirrer away from the sh*t pot!
I don’t have a problem with Lien going to China. China’s not going to just go away if we ignore it, and opening lines of communication would be a good thing, I think. However, I also don’t see why Lien shouldn’t meet with Chen before he goes. He may not be obligated to, but it couldn’t hurt.
I don’t really like Lien; the sooner the KMT gets rid of his influence the better. He’s held them back for far too long. But I think the damage he could do in China is limited; all he could do is open up some talks on relatively minor issues.
I can’t really vote in this poll because we don’t know what Lian will do or say there. I can’t see much happening beyond what PK Chiang already did there.
I must say I can’t see his visit will do any harm to Taiwan, since he’s only an opposition leader, and one likely to be on his way out anyway.
In the present climate, could be positive, but it’s up to governments to act on whatever “agreements” are reached.
So I would say yes, Lian can go there, but the hard decisions will have to be taken by the two governments, not by an opposition party.
The only reason Beijing will allow Lien Chan into China is because there is propaganda value to be milked out of it.
Which puts Lien in a fairly difficult position. If Beijing tries to milk the visit too much, it will show up Lien as a collaborator, regardless of his intent. If, for example, the PRC paints Lien as the real leader of Taiwan (or the real leader in waiting) then it might cause him and his party a lot of trouble here.
I suspect that Lien’s visit will be about as self-defeating for the KMT as the anti-secession law was for the PRC. But I, like other posters here, suspect that damage will be limited. Lien is so hopelessly rigid and inept that he probably thinks he’s in control of the situation. Long experience shows that Lien couldn’t organize a piss-up in a brewery, so there’s no reason to suspect he has the capacity to threaten Taiwan’s security in intelligence terms at least. Symbolism is a different matter, of course, but everyone knows where the KMT stands on that.
Oh, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this little trip
Amen.
And when the president of your (or any) country asks you to come for a visit it is awfully arrogant not to accept.
[quote=“Satellite TV”]So now you would advocate that all opposition political party leaders start going overseas cutting new deals with foreign governments? What nonsense…
So elected governments are not to be negotiated with… hmmmm :raspberry: :raspberry:
Let’s see of the leader of the US Democrats doesnt hop on a plane and go visit Rasputin oops… I meant Putin in Russia and negotiate the sale of Alaska back to the Russians… that wouldn’t mean much I’m sure 
[/quote]
Lien Chan, James Soong, or whatever opposition leader goes to China can’t do anything but talk. It’s just talk and political posturing. They can’t “sell out” Taiwan or cut any deals because they are not in a position of authority to do anything or sell anything. Personally, I think they’re shooting themselves in the foot by doing this, but as for it having any impact on the future of Taiwan, I don’t think so. I think it is more likely to hurt the KMT/PFP than Taiwan.
My assumption is that they believe that if they can get the CCP to start making some concessions, like decreasing the number of missles pointed at Taiwan, improving trade/commerce conditions, or something like that, then it will prove their argument that the DPP is inept and not able to get China to sit at the negotiating table. The problem is that the Taiwanese may not see it that way, and may think the KMT is cozying up to Beijing. The average Taiwanese who is not very knowledgeable about how the government works may believe that the KMT or PFP actually have the power to implement any “deals” or “accords” with China.
Here is an indication that the KMT may indeed be shooting themselves in the foot. In this article in the UK’s Financial Times, at the end there is a quote by Taipei Mayor Ma. Looks like this will benefit Mayor Ma and could lead people to mistakenly take Ma for not advocating the parties platform of being Pro-China, Unification and the continued KMT Sinification of Taiwan. With that said, I am very pleased with what he said and I am wary though that it is a ruse.
news.ft.com/cms/s/160b7bbc-b183- … 511c8.html
[quote]Ma Ying-jeou, the popular Taipei mayor who is running for the post of KMT chairman, urged Mr Lien to make his trip more than a backward journey of nostalgia over the KMT
[quote] Mr Ma said:
very eloquent sandman :bravo: