GPS Suggestions

I need to visit customers sometimes with addresses in Chinese (which I could also ‘copy and paste’ I guess). My Chinese is fine but I don’t know how to input with BPMF, so I need Hanyu Pinyin input otherwise it could be inconvenient sometimes.When I went to the store the salesmen claimed none of them had hanyu pinyin input along with Taiwan map. Of course I know there should be a way around this, for instance purchasing in Hong Kong or if the salesmen were any good they could install some software for me to do this. I want to use the Chinese system as it is superior to English/Google Maps for locations, restaurants etc.

The other thing is I want a standalone unit for the car (not my mobile phone), any specific recommendations? According to what I have heard, mobile phones are not very accurate because the antennae are not good enough.

Sorry, can’t help with hanyu pinyin input. But I did some “research” earlier on GPS and signal strength, acquiring a “lock”, accuracy, etc., and can at least try to shed some light on this (very simplified):

If this sentence is to be taken literally, then I think it is wrong:

If the phone has no GPS receiver built in, then it only “guesses” location based on the phone network, then yes, it’s too inaccurate to be very useful. But that has nothing to do with antenna size.

If the phone has GPS, then it can be as accurate as it gets with GPS - which is way better than what you need for useful car navigation. The antenna size still has nothing to do with that.

The antenna position, though, can be a difference. If you have a car built in GPS, I guess the antenna would be installed on the roof, outside the car body. If you have a standalone GPS, like a phone, and you only turn it on while you are in the car already, then it can have a too weak signal (for example due to metallized windshield etc.) to be very accurate, or to even find it’s position within a short time. Of course you can also get outside mounted antennas for that kind of GPS, but that’s another case…

If you are interested in a bit more details… or wonder why your GPS does not find where it is even it “sees” so many satellites… read on :wink:

The issue here is: Especially during the first time after turning on (unless you already used the GPS within the last hours), until it achieves a “lock” on the position, any GPS system needs a pretty strong signal, to “download” some info (Ephemeris data). With this data each satellite tells where in space it is. It transmits this data again and again, and you need ~ half a minute (IIRC) of a clear, uninterrupted signal to completely receive it. Unfortunately, since the satellites move, this data is only valid for a few hours. Anyway, after the GPS has acquired this data for enough satellites (at least 4 - 3 for position and 1 for time), it can accurately find it’s position even if the signals are much weaker than necessary for this download. The more satellites the GPS can use (eg. it has their data and also has a signal from them) the more accurate your GPS gets.

This is also why sometimes your GPS “sees” 6 satellites, but still can’t figure out where it is (gets no lock).

So what you want to do, in order to have a good accuracy (having enough satellites all the time) and little time to the “lock”, is to have the GPS unit standing still and with good view of as much sky as possible. Metal, concrete, Water etc. block the satellite signals. Even your body/arm, trees, etc. block this line of sight to the satellites, while plastic and glass for example don’t. So for example what I do is to lean the GPS to my home window, turn it on, and a minute later, after I finished dressing, putting on shoes, packing, whatever, take it with me. That makes sure that (even if you turn the GPS off for less than a few hours, while going to the car for example) it already “knows” the current data for a few satellites. If it gets a signal from those satellites later on, even it’s very weak (through metallized windshield etc.) it will still get an accurate position.

Additionally, the GPS also needs some basic satellite data about all satellites (called Almanach), which takes a few minutes to download. This data is valid for a much longer time though (a few months IIRC), so as long as your GPS never completely loses power (remove battery?) you will not have to worry about this part much.

Another (newer) option is called A-GPS (Assisted GPS). Many newer phones, especially smart phones, have some kind of Internet-based assisted GPS. That means they can download the necessary satellite data from the internet instead from the satellites’ signals, and then only need a very weak signal to actually use those satellites. Another option is that some GPS can calculate new data for a few days from data they have downloaded before. Anyway, both systems mean that even in most cars you can use such a kind of handheld / phone GPS without much difference to a mounted one - plus you can take it with you hiking, sailing etc.

This look up table is the best advice I can offer, and I think it’s worth getting familiar with BPMF if you’re living in Taiwan long term. I didn’t used to think so, but I eventually changed my mind.

[quote=“headhonchoII”]I need to visit customers sometimes with addresses in Chinese (which I could also ‘copy and paste’ I guess). My Chinese is fine but I don’t know how to input with BPMF, so I need Hanyu Pinyin input otherwise it could be inconvenient sometimes.When I went to the store the salesmen claimed none of them had hanyu pinyin input along with Taiwan map. Of course I know there should be a way around this, for instance purchasing in Hong Kong or if the salesmen were any good they could install some software for me to do this. I want to use the Chinese system as it is superior to English/Google Maps for locations, restaurants etc.

The other thing is I want a standalone unit for the car (not my mobile phone), any specific recommendations? According to what I have heard, mobile phones are not very accurate because the antennae are not good enough.[/quote]
I don’t think any unit I’ve ever seen supported pasted text from other applications. IIWY I’d learn BPMF, it’s easy enough and it’s more accurate / consistent than any transliteration system. If the map database of street names is only in Chinese, then it will not support pinyin or any input in other alphabets. Even if you got an English version or English input capable version from HK or elsewhere, if the map database itself doesn’t have any phoneticized names to find, it won’t find them.

I am currently using TomTom Navigator 6 on a old HTC Touch Cruise with a built-in SIRF-II chip. It acquires a signal as fast as my standalone Garmin GPS76S, is no more likely to drop the signal and is no less accurate. Not all smart phones are created equal. When running the Taiwan maps the system must be run in Chinese and names can only be entered in Chinese via BPMF. You can probably understand why the programs are created on the assumption that anyone who can read a map in Chinese can input in BPMF. We are not the target market.

Thanks for your advice everybody. Actually hanyu pinyin input should be able to work fine on any Chinese map, the searchable item is the Chinese character, not the pinyin input. So I am pretty sure that a hong kong bought system should work in combination with downloadable Taiwan Chinese map (they use the same traditional Chinese there) or there is another work around, just don’t know how to do it.
I have done the same thing with my Nokia and it worked fine.
Taiwan…trying to wear me down to learn BPMF for 10 years…might succumb someday yet!

Didn’t see this topic before, otherwise I would recommended only Garmin.
Since they got rid off their map supplier and maintain the maps by their own, they are very accurate. TT still use the same map supplier as Garmin before.
Even the maps are only available in Chinese,but the user interface can be in english or any other language.
Advantage of Garmin: Routes and Waypoints can be prepared at the PC and then send it to the device.
You can head also over to garmaps.appspot.com and test there some address and compare the result with Google Maps.
Stay away from maps supplied by Teleatlas for Taiwan. They are lousy. (Tested Sygic before, failed).
Papago was leading in Taiwan, but somehow they didn’t pay atterntion to the market and lost their marketshare.
Suggestion from me: test Garmin and some other devices at 3C, but make sure they have the latest maps installed

I had a Mio PDA that had GPS in it. I was not fond of the Mio software, but it also came bundled with Papago software - and that was much better :thumbsup: I never checked if it has English though, considering that I can speak Chinese. That unit is long broken though, and now, on the rare occasion, I use the Papago I have installed in my HTC phone. No English on that one, but that could be as the phone itself does not have English as an option.

I bought a Mio and then returned it. It has better software but worse hardware than Garmin. I have a cheap little Garmin and I use it in both my motorbike and my car. I love it. Helps so much when going somewhere in another city. I use the chinese maps and I can’t read or write Chinese at all. But you can add in your own “favorites” and then use the search function to find those. So…you could take a little time and put in the english names for most cities. Then when you wanted to go somewhere you could just search for a name you’d already put in.

Oh and on the Mio it didn’t show any names for cities on the map. The map was just blank. I hated that about it. The Garmin looks like a regular map. And can be zoomed out further.

I had word from a customer the other day who managed to get a full English maps version for his recent locally purchased GPS. He was kind enough to send me the email from Garmin on the matter:

[quote]Dear Sir:

Thanks for contacting GARMIN corp.
If you live in Taiwan now, we suggest you to purchase the Taiwan version device because the Taiwan City Navigator map (street map) is only pre-installed on the local device now.

For car navigation, we suggest you purchasing the nuvi 1480, 1470, 1370, 765, or 265w TWN device because the Taiwan City Navigator map (street map) is only pre-installed on these local device now. These models all can support Taiwan City Navigator English map and English interface. And the street names of our Taiwan City Navigator English map are spelled by Tongyong Pinyin. The latest Taiwan City Navigator English map is 8.63B version, however this map doesn’t support 3D exit, 3D building, speedcamera or advanced address search function. In addition, we have to remind you that this English map is not detailed as Chinese map.

If you have any other problem, please let us know. Thank you.

Best regards,

Catherine Lin
Marketing Dept, GARMIN Corp.
Tel: (02)2642-9199
Fax:(02)2642-9099
Add:No 68, Jangshu 2nd Road, Shijr, Taipei County, Taiwan,
2010/01/05[/quote]

[quote=“sulavaca”]I had word from a customer the other day who managed to get a full English maps version for his recent locally purchased GPS. He was kind enough to send me the email from Garmin on the matter:

[quote]Dear Sir:

Thanks for contacting GARMIN corp.
If you live in Taiwan now, we suggest you to purchase the Taiwan version device because the Taiwan City Navigator map (street map) is only pre-installed on the local device now.

For car navigation, we suggest you purchasing the nuvi 1480, 1470, 1370, 765, or 265w TWN device because the Taiwan City Navigator map (street map) is only pre-installed on these local device now. These models all can support Taiwan City Navigator English map and English interface. And the street names of our Taiwan City Navigator English map are spelled by Tongyong Pinyin. The latest Taiwan City Navigator English map is 8.63B version, however this map doesn’t support 3D exit, 3D building, speedcamera or advanced address search function. In addition, we have to remind you that this English map is not detailed as Chinese map.

If you have any other problem, please let us know. Thank you.

Best regards,

Catherine Lin
Marketing Dept, GARMIN Corp.
Tel: (02)2642-9199
Fax:(02)2642-9099
Add:No 68, Jangshu 2nd Road, Shijr, Taipei County, Taiwan,
2010/01/05[/quote][/quote]

They told me that as well a year ago. They said if I swung by there they would install it for me. But you can’t have both maps on one unit. So you lose the more detailed chinese one. And addresses are usually in Chinese. I can’t read a word of Chinese…and I use the Chinese map. And it’s fine. Trust me.

Not true that you cannot use both maps on the device

According to Garmin headquarters it is true. I know you can put more than one map in the device…but for some reason they said I had to pick either English or Chinese for the map…not both.

You can install both maps simultaneously and choose to activate Chinese, English or both. With both activated, the device then displays an odd mixture of English and Chinese. It’s worth noting that the free English map floating around online isn’t very good because it doesn’t have indexed, searchable addresses. You can search by name, though.

And I’d like to re-state that even though I can’t read or write a word of Chinese…the Chinese map is fine and I use it all the time.

I’m not an expert on GPS (in fact, don’t own one yet, but maybe soon…). Anyway, I would guess that these smartphone 3G GPS devices would not work in those few places in Taiwan where you have no cell phone signal. When you’re driving on a highway, that shouldn’t be a problem, but I have been up in the mountains hiking and couldn’t pick up a cell phone signal. And since that is the situation where I most need a GPS, this is obviously a drawback. Something to keep in mind.

cheers,
DB

We have a Carmax which we negotiated to be installed in our Toyota Camry we bought last year. We didn’tget it for free - but we did get it as part of the whole extras package.

In one sentence: do NOT buy a Carmax GPS + DVD player. The GPS was TERRIBLE untilwe finally - after arguing with Toyota Jhubei 3 times - got them to upgrade the software. THEN the maps became much more accurate and up to date, but the system still gets confused a lot and we have to power off / on.

To address your other concern about switching between DVD + MP3 + USB + GPS, that part of it is the ONLY part that works well. The DVD / MP3 / USB drive software is OLD and will only read the first 8 characters of the filename. Additionally, the extra Carmax TV’s we have for the kids are poor quality and have broken TWICE. We are still waiting for Toyota to replace the right rear seat monitor - 90 days now.

So in short, I would be skeptical and check out ANY car manufacturer GPS + DVD before buying it. I would recommend getting an in-dash mounted one - but look on Yahoo for a Pioneer, Alpine, or other reputable quality manufacturer. Yes you’ll pay more, but just be tougher on the negotiations up front and get a bit more discount = good to go.

MAZDA 3 GPS navigation/Dual CPU/windows CE 6.0/High Resolution and Resolution/iphone rotary style
Absolutely perfect for you :slight_smile:

So is one better off trying to order without the CD player (and installing aftermarket) or is that not even an option?

certainly i’d go for an aftermarket GPS, since they’re easier to upgrade and can be taken away with you if you go abroad.