Graves in Canada

The apparently related arson attacks and definitely related boycotts would seem to suggest otherwise.

No it wouldn’t, but I think that’s another topic.

It’s “socialist” when Americans want to criticize it (or when Canadians want to criticize the government if anyone other than a certain party is in power at the time) and “capitalist” at all other times. :wall:

Ever is a long time. :cactus:

They will never pay up with a large enough amount to settle the score once and for all. Never ever.


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Even with legalisation, the punitive measures outside of the narrow scopes punish minorities. Race, cannabis and the Canadian war on drugs: An examination of cannabis arrest data by race in five cities - PubMed (

So dumb backpackers lauding it, are indeed lauding ongoing wars on drugs. My analogy is not off.

Is genocide a term that just gets thrown around these days? :roll: Not to mention equating the Catholic church to Nazi Germany…
I see I’m in hostile territory. And from your posts I don’t have any hope in us seeing eye to eye.
But I’ll make an attempt to add some perspective.
In Christianity there’s little more important than the salvation of the soul. It’s that primarily which motivated and motivates missionaries to go forego material wellbeing and quite possibly their life - one such story I think being recounted in the article posted here - to minister among such people groups; not some grand scheme of cultural genocide or whatever you want to call it. Then also, the commandment to care for the poor and sick. Which is why schools, hospitals and universities were established.
Another thing. Hindsight is 20/20, all the more so via the lens of 21st century moral ideals. I’m highly sceptical of the notion that whatever the shortcomings in the conditions in these schools were they were for nefarious purposes. I get the impression boarding schools in general were miserable places. Our ideas and understanding around education and discipline has changed over time as we learn from our mistakes and failures.
And then, to suggest, as you do, along the lines that the churches exist merely for the propagation of genocide, tyranny and evil, or that that kiddy-diddling is among the organisational objectives of the RCC… well, if you undertake a strict regimen of confirmation bias then perhaps I can see how you may come to that conclusion.

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changed my mind, question deleted

People just aren’t used to hearing the word outside of discussions about Nazism and a select few events like Rwanda. There are many events through the millennia that would qualify if people bothered to look into and think about them.

Of course they exist for other reasons. But then, non-Christian places of worship also exist for other reasons, yet that hasn’t always stopped the overzealous from suggesting otherwise or, y’know, doing everything they can to wipe them out. :cactus:

Certainly, in these cases more important than other people’s lives.

I’ve not seen any evidence that the church in pursuing its goals here somehow recklessly caused the death of indigenous. Certainly not intentionally.

Does intentionally exposing children to a nasty disease qualify as recklessly causing death?

Bryce’s report named poor ventilation and poor standards of care from school officials as the primary cause of deaths as opposed to the racial susceptibility hypothesis rather popular at the time. Put simply, Bryce “exposed the genocidal practices of government-sanctioned residential schools, where healthy Indigenous children were purposefully exposed to children infected with TB, spreading the disease through the school population.”4,5 Importantly, it was not only the Canadian government but the broader population that learned of Bryce’s report; for example, on Nov. 15, 1907, The Evening Citizen (an earlier edition of the The Ottawa Citizen ) ran a front-page story with the headline “Schools Aid White Plague — Startling Death Rolls Revealed Among Indians — Absolute Inattention to the Bare Necessities of Health.”6

Btw, keep in mind that when people speak of genocide, they’re not always talking about the deaths of individual persons. You could theoretically have a genocide with zero deaths, though off the top of my head I can’t think of any that turned out that way.

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Although probably technically the wrong way to use the word, many people (myself included) use the word genocidal for trying to wipe away a culture, religion, language etc via forcing people to change. Not killing people, but killing the way of life. This is more what i meant by them being genocidal in canada indoctrinaion, changing their race, erasing language and spirtual beliefs etc). Though throughout history they have done a fairly good job of getting rid of other people from other groups as well throughout europe, americas etc. It may not be their golden rule and the reason missionaries go, but it certainly has been done often. regardless of how successful thye were, NO one should get a pass for causing such tyranny. And it was tyranny, to be sure!

its wrong, so i do have this bias towards such groups that commit such crimes and never face the music. fuck them. But not a fuck every individual who is catholic. Just to be clear. Like that saying 1 bad apple spoils the bunch. Unfortunately it took more han one bad apple to murder millions of people, rape, starve, indoctrinate etc. This isnt just a once in a while occurance, a few kids type of situation, where the church could deny involvement.

Edit. @TaiwanTonny Although i think you are right we likely wont see eye to eye on catholic tyranny, i do actually appreciate your attempts at sharing more perspective.

Actually that was my point – it is technically correct.

The TRC already said this in 2015. When the MMIWG inquiry said it in 2019, there were ripostes from pundits along the lines of oh they just had their feelings hurt, this is a new low for wokism and so on. :roll:

(Btw if you read Jonathan Kay’s clever little piece of disingenuity, please note that he’s a bit selective when quoting the ICTY, and it’s not like there’s a consensus that the ICTY was perfect anyway. I agree he has a point when he argues that cultural appropriation is not genocide, but for that characterization of contemporary discourse he relies on one comment by one artist he doesn’t even bother naming.)


Cultural genocide fits

I believe the goal of the residential school system was to ‘kill the Indian in the child’

And I also read somewhere that historically in Canada Indigenous people were allowed to become legal human beings if they denounced/declined Indian status, just went looking for a link on that but couldn’t find one.

So cultural genocide is certainly a good way to describe what was happening in Canada up to at least the 60s, and arguably further (last residential school closed in 1994, and culturally there continues to be a large Euro-settler influence).

I thought the MMIW report didn’t focus sufficiently on domestic abuse and internal issues. I understand that there is the argument that the church and previous governments (in addition to the whole colonization thing) destroyed their societies, but I don’t think that absolves individual Indigenous men of murdering their women, which must happen at least some of the time. An impartial report focusing on MMIW and not on a woke agenda would have taken this more seriously, and I think they shot themselves in the foot and squandered a chance to make a difference.

I also recall that the process itself involved a lot of fighting among the people working on the report, so that whole thing was a mess. Can’t blame the media for a bad process that resulted in a bad product:

I’m not saying there aren’t problems, I’m just firm that the woke attitudes prevalent in universities are not a solution.

Coming full circle then to my original question. How is it an entire race of a country can share the blame for things they mostly had no hand in doing, simply being guilty of being born the “wrong color”, and the catholic institution always seems to get a pass?

I really don’t think that institution is getting a pass from people in general (outside of the third world perhaps). In many countries, the catalyst for its fall from grace is abuse scandals in general, and in Canada it’s been those for ~30 years, now with complicity in genocide added on top. Just sayin’.

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Also, presumably the people who burned down those churches recently weren’t giving a pass.

Thats great, can you share some links/resources how the government is reprimanding the catholic cults in light of these infractions?

So far i have only read about vigilante style justice.

Such graves also exist in the US. A process of reckoning is happening there too through a new federal investigation.

Here’s an exchange about it with Native American (Pueblo) Secretary of the Interior Debra Haaland:


Oh, I thought you meant humans in geneeral.

But the judiciary is a branch of government, so every time it orders compensation for one thing or another, that is (in a sense) a reprimand by the government.

(No comment on your use of the C word there, btw.)

I decided to look up that passage of Dante.

Then he names famous Greeks and Romans and even a few Arabs and says he could go on but there are too many to name. There’s no sign or hint of torment. They aren’t allowed into Paradise, but they get their own little ersatz paradise downstairs.

So to repeat, this is the non-canonical yet traditional view of the horrible fate in store for virtuous non-Christians (excluding the select few who made it to Purgatory or Paradise). As for the other eight circles of Hell, many Christians can be found in them. Just sayin’. :cactus: