Okay, then, I hereby offer my serices signing bullsh*t forms for the Canadian passport renewal athorities. You can mail the form, pay via paypal of course, and I’ll send it back signed. I’ll even sign it in Chinese, or with a chop, if you like, though this might cost extra.
Well, Kage, I guess the urge to think logically is harder to kill than you’d imagine. I guess I kind of think of Canada as being not too terribly different from the States, (better health care policy and beef industry regs, of course). This is just such utter nonsense that it’s difficult to believe. Nope, we’re not in (Ar)Kansas any more!
Yup. You hit the nail on the head there. As I said, people from other countries make fun of us for this.
I guess I need to start hanging on the street corners in Tianmu trying to cultivate relationships with lawyers, judges, university professors, high school principals and the like.
me: “Hi, I’m looking for a friend … No, no money can be charged for the service.”
Yup. You hit the nail on the head there. As I said, people from other countries make fun of us for this.
I guess I need to start hanging on the street corners in Tianmu trying to cultivate relationships with lawyers, judges, university professors, high school principals and the like.
me: “Hi, I’m looking for a friend … No, no money can be charged for the service.”[/quote]
So, they called your guy. A phone call. How do they know that the guy who signed is the same one who they’re talking to, other than to take the word of the guy on the phone–whom they cannot see? The word, and document of their own citizen is not enough, but a stranger, possibly a foreigner who doesn’t even speak English–this is carved in stone and they can base international travel documents on it. And the need for a professional guarantor seems designed to keep non-professional, or non-wealthy, from getting out of the counrty. Interesting. Mind boggeling.
[quote=“housecat”]So, they called your guy. A phone call. How do they know that the guy who signed is the same one who they’re talking to, other than to take the word of the guy on the phone–whom they cannot see?[/quote] Good point. I think they may have done it in front of me to gauge my reaction to them checking my references. See if I got all fidgety and sweaty. Some kind of psychological test, perhaps.
[quote] And the need for a professional guarantor seems designed to keep non-professional, or non-wealthy, from getting out of the counrty.[/quote] Yeah, well… (sigh)
At least they changed it for Canadian residents. Now any passport holder can sign for another person - if they live in Canada.
I know that in country, they require that your guarrantor be a member of the provincial order of whatever profession he/she represents. Be it the Quebec Order of Lawyers or the Manitoba Order of Engineers, and the information that the guarrantor gives in their phone interview can easily be corroberated that way.
Funny, that’s what my 70 year old father said when they asked him for fingerprinting and detained him for over and hour because he “wasn’t in the system” on entry to the US last year!
Funny, that’s what my 70 year old father said when they asked him for fingerprinting and detained him for over and hour because he “wasn’t in the system” on entry to the US last year! [/quote]
[quote=“TheGingerMan”]My children’s passports are up for renewal. This time I am trying to avoid having to shell out twice for the “Declaration in Lieu of Guarantor” form.
Not having much success convincing my kids’ doctor and dentist that signing the guarantor form won’t come back to haunt them one day.They seem to be of the opinion that they are attesting to something far more complicated than merely stating that a photo is a true likeness of a passport applicant.
I am trying also to avoid the massive tongue-wagging I had to endure from the desk-jockeys at the trade office the last time I renewed my own passport without a guarantor. I tried to explain the reluctance I had encountered in trying to obtain my own guarantor, but the clerk’s and her supervisor’s eyes both glazed over and they just droned on endlessly about the following:
Has anyone had any success getting a Taiwanese guarantor? What arguments/inducements did one use to overcome reluctance?[/quote]
I can’t know the particulars of your situation or what the twerps at the trade office are doing, but do you have an ARC? When I renewed my passport in 2006, I was allowed to use my ARC as a piece of identification in lieu of a guarantor. Then again, I had only been here for one year and you say the twerps told you three years. Perhaps you could call and ask tomorrow.
The twerps are like most uncivil servants in Canada: lazy, arrogant, and stupid. Their mantra seems to be, “If I can do nothing and get away with it, I will do nothing.” Even so, ask them if they will call your doctor/dentist and explain that there are no legal repercussions to doing this; the worst they can do is say no. The laziness is one of the reasons I quit the federal uncivil service, even though it was a protected union job. I couldn’t stand their pathetic work ethic.
One more thing, is the young woman still there, the Montrealer of Chinese descent? She was reasonable to deal with though a bit of a scatterbrain who got information wrong more than once. The “chef du mission” in 2006, on the other hand, was a complete prick who flew off the handle because I wanted to ask him questions, rather than deal only with his subordinates (and some scatterbrained behaviour). It seemed he didn’t want to do his job, as per usual with uncivil servants.
Those working at the embassies in South Korea and the Philippines never exhibited his level arrogance, laziness or stupidity. The ambassador to Korea would even make time to talk, while the prick here in Taiwan acts like Canadian citizens are interrupting his trips to Snake Alley and “barbershops” or whatever it is that is putting him off. He should quit if he doesn’t like doing his job.
For others reading the thread, this is obviously a warning: get to know your doctor or dentist well, going to the same one regularly. Experience has taught me never to depend on uncivil servants to give the facts, even when they’re legally required to. By the time they would get penalized for their misconduct, you or I would be punished (e.g. an expired passport and deported) for it first even when it’s not one’s own fault.
Failing that, plan a four week holiday back to Canada near the time your passport expires. Don’t send your passport re-application through the mail, take it into the local Member of Parliament constituency office. They have a daily “black bag” that goes to Ottawa, and passport applications can be returned in as little as two weeks, or at least, that happened for me back in 2001. Write to the MP where you live/lived and see if that’s still possible.
Yup. You hit the nail on the head there. As I said, people from other countries make fun of us for this.
I guess I need to start hanging on the street corners in Tianmu trying to cultivate relationships with lawyers, judges, university professors, high school principals and the like.
me: “Hi, I’m looking for a friend … No, no money can be charged for the service.”[/quote]
So, they called your guy. A phone call. How do they know that the guy who signed is the same one who they’re talking to, other than to take the word of the guy on the phone–whom they cannot see? The word, and document of their own citizen is not enough, but a stranger, possibly a foreigner who doesn’t even speak English–this is carved in stone and they can base international travel documents on it. And the need for a professional guarantor seems designed to keep non-professional, or non-wealthy, from getting out of the counrty. Interesting. Mind boggeling.[/quote]
I don’t mind the fact that we’re limited to five year passports (though the US’s ten would be nice) and that pretty much only people with clean records (never arrested) can even get passports. It keeps troublemakers from ruining Canadians’ reputations and keeps those who travel on a short leash to avoid getting into trouble.
What galls me is what I said in my other reply on this post: the unthinking arrogance and unwillingness to listen of the uncivil servants we’re forced to deal with. When I was leaving Canada for the first time, I went to CRA (then called CCRA) for info on tax agreements between countries. Get this:
Go and ask for info.
CRA moron tells me, “We don’t have that (tax info). Try immigration.”
Ask her to look. Comes back in ten minutes, saying, “I can’t find it, we must not have it.”
I ask for supervisor, she says no. I ask to look for it myself. She says no.
I leave for a half hour, return and ask a different person for a supervisor.
Talk to supervisor and ask for tax info. Says he doesn’t know where to look.
I ask to look for the info myself. Twice. Supervisor finally allows me to look.
Go to library. Find index book in one minute. Find “tax agreement” info for Korea in three.
Show supervisor. Tell supervisor of earlier moron. Show moron the book.
Ask moron why she couldn’t find it in ten minutes while I could in four. Moron clams up.
Look at supervisor. Supervisor doesn’t care that moron was incompetent, lazy or arrogant.
Shake head, hand them the book, leave in disgust.
I didn’t work there yet I could find it the first time I tried, while the moron couldn’t find it in ten minutes? More likely, she snuck off for an extra coffee break and didn’t even try.
I’ve gotten passports for myself and my daughter here (as well as her citizenship, which, interestingly enough, came after her passport), and I’ve never had a problem with the staff. Now, I’ve always had a guarantor, but still, I found the service at the Trade Office to be friendly, polite, and speedy. Every time, the passports were ready before they were promised, and in the case of my daughter’s citizenship, that came through months earlier than promised! I’m not trying to downplay the negative experience of others, just saying that not everyone comes away disappointed.
As I said, people from other countries make fun of us for this. 
Yeah, well… (sigh)
