Guardian Unlimited Operation Clark County

[quote]My dear, beloved Brits,
I understand the Guardian is sponsoring a service where British citizens write to Americans to advise them on how to vote. Thank heavens! I was adrift in a sea of confusion and you are my beacon of hope!

Feel free to respond to this email with your advice. Please keep in mind that I am something of an anglophile, so this is not confrontational. Please remember, too, that I am merely an American. That means I am not very bright. It means I have no culture or sense of history. It also means that I am barely literate, so please don’t use big, fancy words.

Set me straight, folks!
Dayton, Ohio


:notworthy: :notworthy: good to see some of the colonials still know their place in the natural order :wink: [/quote]

And now Mahathir is sticking his oar in…

[i]And more at:[/i] … V0410-2488

But read his interview in the Malaysian newpaper [b]The Star:[/b]

[quote]Will it make any difference who wins the US elections?

It won

Have the Iranians worked out reverse psycology or are they serious?

Bush Receives Endorsement From Iran


I think that the Iranian government knows full well that it would rather have K-K-Ke-ke-kerry in office.

MT: No feel free to lambaste America at every turn always being the first one to point out that “but America has done this, that or the other too.” Shall we check to see if your posts on other threads are equally self-incriminating.

My Bushiban owner sucks. Ah, says MT, but my boss sucks even more and here’s why.

Or my family used to beat me within an inch of my life for failing an exam, and then MT, but my father and mother used to send me to a concentration camp for the summer if I did not get good grades.

Why is MT so keen to always take the opposing team’s side? This, I have a problem with especially when we compare the degrees of dastardly behavior.

Saddam was evil to which MT chimes in with “But the US once sold computers to the man and some US computer companies have not paid their taxes.”

Hitler gassed millions of innocent victims, which prompts MT to reply: Yes, but the US could have stopped Germany from gassing those victims by bombing train tracks to Auschwitz. Why didn’t we? We are therefore morally culpable to the same degree and I know some Americans like Spook and Screaming Jesus who think we should do the same thing to our Jews so…

Or France sold weapons to a country that directly threatened the security of one of its closest allies to which MT points out: Well no wonder! America bombed German forces in their country killing innocent French women and children in the process! No wonder! They are just trying to get back at us and rightly so!

Guardian calls it quits in Clark County fiasco
"The Guardian yesterday ran up the white flag and called a halt to “Operation Clark County”, the newspaper’s ambitious scheme to recruit thousands of readers to persuade American voters in a swing state to kick out President George W Bush in next month’s election.
The cancellation of the project came 24 hours after the first of some 14,000 letters from Guardian readers began arriving in Clark County. The missives led to widespread complaints about foreign interference in a US election.
It also prompted a surge of indignant local voters calling the county’s Republican party offering to volunteer for Mr Bush."
(excerted from article)

Hmmm…probably seemed like a good plan when they 1st thought it up!

there’s a reason i predicted a bush win in ohio. stupid condescending foreigners aghast that americans might vote for bush. lol. that they would pick a conservative midwestern county is strange. one might think they would have had more luck writing letters to new yorkers who would have been THRILLED to have their positions validated by those sophisticated euros.

a shame they stopped the operation. they could have driven even more people to bush’s side.

i wonder if the guardian knows the general attitude to the un, gun control, the death penalty, or homosexuality in clark county… and these people were supposed to be swayed by letters from brits? :bravo:

it’s always funny to see foreigners go out of their way to prove how little they know about america or americans.

You mean like in contrast to Americans, who know little to nothing about “foreigners?”

It is quite astounding the effort some will put into believing that the “average” American is an uneducated hayseed barefoot and playing an out of tune guitar.
Of course this just helps them self-justify their own parochial view of their moral and social superiority.
The condescending attitude displayed towards the “average” American, both by ‘foreigners’ and a number of SLA’s (Self Loathing American’s) perpetuates a myth. A myth which is the basis for a rather shaky belief system. To challenge the veracity of this myth or point a finger at the falsehood it supports is seen as heresy by those who chose to base their values and world view on it.

I, personally, believe I was put on this planet to point that finger and laugh…Loudly and Long…LOL :laughing:

[quote=“Hobbes”]An Honest Question

Has there been any allegation of UK government involvement in this Ohio campaign? Does this foreign government vs. foreign private actor dichotomy make a difference to how any of you would view this issue?

I haven’t spent a lot of time thinking about it, but my initial reaction is that there should be a lot less “angst” associated with a private foreign newspaper doing this kind of thing than there would be if the actor were a foreign government. Just a thought.

Incidentally, if I have missed something and indeed we are talking about foreign government action here – then I agree with Mother Theresa and hexuan that there would be a certain level of irony/hypocrisy in objecting to a foreign government trying to influence an election if it’s true that the US government does the same thing.

It’s worth noting, however, that pointing out the hypocrisy of those who criticise Action X is not exactly a defense of Action X is it? For example, the fact many of the foreign governments who criticised the US over the Abu Ghraib affair are themselves guilty prison abuse does not excuse the actions of the US troops does it?[/quote]

Interesting points Hobbes.

First, I want to repeat that I never criticized the US at all in this thread, so I don’t know why I was so violently attacked. I simply noted that some in this thread and many in the letters from Ohio argued that people from the UK have no right to try to influence a US election, so I pointed out that the US govt has done that extensively for years. You’re right, Hobbes, that doesn’t mean that the Guardian’s actions are any more (or less) legitimate, but it does support the argument that those posters and letter writers are hypocrites (if they would support the US actions).

But I never voiced an opinion whether it’s wrong for private entities to try to influence foreign elections. But now that I’ve been attacked for condemning the practice I’ll admit that I see nothing wrong with it. I see nothing wrong with foreigners criticizing many of the bufoons and criminals in Taiwan politics. So why shouldn’t Brits have a right to criticize the Shrub?

Moreover, the US presidential election is hardly a local election. The US president has a huge impact on countless issues that affect people all over the world, so why the heck shouldn’t these people who will be influenced by the outcome of the election have a right to try to get a good president elected?

I agree with you that there should be less “angst” over a foreign corporation, such as the Guardian, or other private entity engaging in such a campaign as opposed to a government. As for a goverment’s right to try to influence foreign elections, for me I guess it depends on the facts of the particular situation, although I object to the use of assasination, defamation, economic sabotage, and other CIA-style dirty tactics to sway an election.

MT wrote:

[quote]Shocking. UK trying to influence a US election.

The US would never try to influence a foreign election now would it? [/quote]

And then he provided a list of links proving past US efforts to influence other elections. To me that is rushing as always to find fault with America. He is certainly free to do so, but other posters such as myself are certainly free to view such self-abasing groveling for foreign what? admiration? respect? approval? applause? with the contempt that it so richly deserves. I suggest you write a letter to Le Monde or the Guardian and fill it with the contempt which you hold for your country and its leaders. I am sure that it would be a big hit, not as big as Michael Moore, but no doubt highly appreciated nonetheless.

But we only have ourselves to blame for the “education” that children like MT and John Walker Lindh received while in the San Francisco Public School system and others of its ilk. When they are taught (brainwashed) that their nation is nothing but a neocolonial exploiter of natural resources and a harsh taskmaster of the little brown peoples that must be visited on cheap spring break holidays where the advanced but condescending white peoples can help the little brown peoples pick coffee beans while smoking doobies and trying to score their unmarried teenage girls at night while discussing “Che Guevera” and “Noam Chomsky” is it any wonder that we have arrived to witness the day that posters such as MT would rush at every opportunity to post “But America is bad too” messages at each and every opportunity? It is what they were rewarded for as children in school.

Teacher: Who is the most evil nation in the world?

MT: I know I know Ms. Redcommieshitforbrainsowsky. Is it America?

Teacher: That’s right MT. You are great. You are good. That is right. Hurray Little MT! Hurray!

Teacher: Now who has done more to destroy the world and make children in third world countries constipated?

MT waving his hands wildly: I know teacher. I know. Is it America and its evil corporations which only hope to make a profit at the expense and even death of innocent women and children?

Teacher: How right and smart you are little MT.

Teacher: Now can anyone tell me who has killed more people in the world than anyone else?

MT: I know. I know. First, the Chinese Communists, then the Russian Communists, then the German Nazis, then the Japanese Militarists, then all the tinpot corrupt African dictators, then all the Revolutionary “movements” then the French, then the oh wait. What’s wrong teacher? Did I get it wrong?

Teacher: Bad student MT! Those weren’t murders. Those were needed efforts to remove wrong-thinking people that were holding back the righteous armed struggle of the masses to overthrow tyranny. Now go to the principal’s office but before that write out the first chapter of Noam Chomsky’s book 50 times on the blackboard. We will have no such screwing around in my class!

You mean like in contrast to Americans, who know little to nothing about “foreigners?”[/quote]

when’s the last time american citizens lectured canadians on who they should vote for?

we don’t care enough about who runs your country to tell you who to vote for. :wink:

Fred, for god’s sake learn to read. I’ll repeat it again: I NEVER CRITICIZED THE US OR ITS GOVERNMENT IN THIS THREAD. You keep seeing it that way because you are so blinded by your unfailing support for the US government, no matter what it might do, and your instinctive defensiveness whenever you perceive potential criticism. You wrote:

As I explained, Fred, I only posted links to US efforts to influence foreign elections because a number of people (particularly those from Ohio) flew into a rage that a foreigner might try to influence a US election and claimed they have no damned right. I was merely pointing out that they are hypocrites (if they support the US policies).


So quit being so obtuse and defensive. Try to listen to people’s views before shooting them down with personal insults. Try to rein in your prejudices. Your tirades against perceived threats to america are growing old.

Why post the links at all? Do you feel that it is your “duty” or “moral obligation” to immediately jump on the side of those criticizing your nation? What does this serve? If it were a rational conversation with a rational examination of government (s) and their efforts to influence other nations’ elections, then I say fine. But always the criticism is directed only one way and you are far too eager in my opinion to jump on that bandwagon. Why?

Why not at the same time, post a link showing the desperate efforts the French go to in Africa and even in UN elections to “influence” the vote? Are you going to compare this with the guns and tanks the Russians used to send into Eastern Europe or threaten to send in to ensure the right “results” in their elections?

I know you are from California and that well explains a lot but think of what the US has done to guarantee free and fair elections around the world. For you to post only negatives on how certain groups in the US in the words of some sites “attempt” to influence elections is a gross injustice.

The fact that most Europeans today have free elections can be attributed to whom? The UN? the French? the Russians?

The fact that most of East Asia now has free elections can be attributed to whom? China? the UN? Russia? Japan?

The fact that most of Latin America enjoys free elections can be attributed to whom? Cuba? Russia? China? The UN? Brazil? Who?

So I really must protest at what I see is a gross calumny against the nation that has single-handedly done the most to advance democracy around the world, not perfectly but a damned sight better than what anyone else has attempted or do you think that our government should be more like the French and just buy what we want and pay off who we want and sell whatever we want the people be damned?

Or should we do what the Scandinavians and Germans do? Just send monitors and instructors but not supply the security or force or protection to ensure that any elections at all can take place? I mean what is more important to advancing democracy around the world? The US 7th fleet or 50 Norwegian vote monitors led by Jimmy Carter? What do you think?

MT, Fred doesn’t read, he just types. Types, types, types. He’s trying to single-handedly disprove the notion that a million monkeys cranking away on typewriters might someday replicate the works of Shakespeare.


23r90qwevnowievnqvweo;fjisdfmwefifiwefnweifnef;nasfnwiefnaweifnaeifn/vnkv iwerqp48r49r8ufjserovnsf[c

My God you are right! When I type without thinking, I can mimic (ape) your posts perfectly! Who would have thought! Thanks for the tip!

Love Fred

Oh, come now! Where’s the proper capitalization and punctuation? Plus, numbers starting a sentence should be spelled out. Here, I let Word edit your piece a bit:

"Twenty-three or 90 queef no wizens vowel;
Fijis dame edify we fun we if novenas fancied newbie naive/ankh;
I were kewpie 48 or 49 or 8 fun sermons flocks fake environ;
I of nave

OH yeah MFGR:

Well, then why don’t you have word translate this for you!

F*** Y**!!! hahaa

Gosh, MFGR: Now I know why you like to type like the ignorant ape you are! It’s so fun! so creative! so expressive! so so so er Shakespearean delivered through a monkey jumping on a typewriter!

Getting back to the topic, Flicka’s post elsewhere ([ … ht=#250234](US Presidential Election 2004 IV brings to light an interesting fact.

I think it’s fascinating and a bit hilarious that the Republicans Abroad Taiwan (RAT?) consider the Guardian such an enemy that they have made it an urgent matter to try to silence that voice within the Taiwan media. Guess they can’t stand the heat of an open media and haven’t been able to provide any credible publication-quality material of their own.

Do the RATs actually sit around in a bunker somewhere trying to think of how now, with just 1-1/2 weeks before the election, they should spend efforts to try to get the Guardian out of the Taipei Times??

Just curious.

actually, i believe the topic was what a biased paper the guardian is. to make matters worse, they started their letter writing campaign to inject their bias into the american electorate. i wonder at what point they realized that they were actually costing kerry votes through their lame-brained stunt. :slight_smile:

Where’s the link for this Republicans Abroad effort? MFGR?

Also, did I out insult you for a change. I cannot believe you changed the subject like that you nasty baboon faced so and so. So there! sdfijsdfjsdfsifjseifsdfjsdilfjsdifj (translate that!)

freddie strikes again!