Half of Taiwanese are overweight - really?

Life Health & Fitness
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[quote=“tommy525”]Quick question. I am trying to eat right ,but my life currently consists of mainly WORK. And its hard to get much exercise in. More then a few mins of walking a day.

I try to eat right and all that, but im around 30pct body fat (according to my scale) and thats of course too high. Would it benefit me at all to drink one of those cans of protein shakes for bfast? Currently not even eating much bfast due to time constraints.

Or would that not benefit me. I don’t want to waste 2.50 usd/can on that if its not going to do me any good. It says it has 27gms of protein in each shake.[/quote]

For a quick breakfast with a bit of protein i’d eat a boiled egg or two, a handful of almonds, and some fruit. Better nutrition and cheaper than 2.50 usd. What is your body going to do with 27 grams of protein if you’re not even exercising? The body doesn’t store excess protein. Even if you’re working out you’re better off eating smaller amounts of protein more frequently during the day rather than large amounts at one time. For those that drink shakes with large doses of protein the body flushes most of it out anyway, which is a positive thing considering the damage the kidneys would suffer if forced to process that much at one time. That’s why professional bodybuilders often eat 5 or even 6 meals a day, so they can feed their body a constant stream of protein in quantities the body can handle and steadily build muscle. If you’re not tearing your muscles down with strenuous activity or weight training you’re not going to need to worry much about protein anyway, unless you want to get into some diet fad like the “primal diet” (high protein, high fat, low carb). Even then it’s said it’s not a good idea to get more than 1/3 of your total calories from protein. I’m not an expert or a professional, but that’s from years of listening to the so-called experts.

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Formosa Fitness sounds like the go-to guy on the subject, but IMO a protein shake is a waste of time if your body can’t use it. It’ll just end up going directly down the toilet (literally).

If you “don’t have time” for exercise (and to be honest, there are very few people who genuinely don’t have nine hours a week to spare … if you consider it important enough) then I’d suggest:

  1. Buy an isometric exercise gadget. It needs to be one with some sort of measurement device built-in. These things are still knocking around on ebay (and possibly new from some factory in China):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullworker
    Be very careful to do some stretching and warmup before using it, though. Isometric exercise works by pushing your muscles to their limit, which means your joints are under extreme stress.

  2. Read the Atkins diet book, and follow the instructions to the letter. Atkins is, in fact, a modified bodybuilder cutting cycle. It’s nothing new - Arnie types have been doing it since the 80s.

I can assure you that both of these will work. However, you can’t do them simultaneously because losing fat and gaining muscle mass have different dietary requirements. Do the muscle work first. Get at least 1.5g/kg protein a day, preferably from proper food (meat, eggs, milk, fish). Eat as many “slow” carbs as you like. Don’t worry too much about your fat intake. Cut down your processed-sugar and processed-carbs (e.g., white bread and soft drinks) intake because they’re simply not good for you. Six months later you should be at least 50% stronger, although it might not show much. Then do Atkins. If you stick with it for 3 months, you will (to quote a great line from American Beauty) look good naked, which I am sure tommy will consider a Good Thing. Repeat ad infinitum.

As well as the above, you must try to improve your cardiovascular health; apart from anything else, it’ll put a limit on your muscle growth. A 20-minute brisk walk is better than nothing, but 20 minutes on a stepper or elliptical trainer is even better. I wouldn’t recommend a treadmill without a trainer to show you how to run correctly.

Oh … and as louisfriend just said, eat your breakfast.

All protein enters your bloodstream as amino acids, or very short chains of them. Your kidneys mostly flush out protein metabolites, not protein (protein in the urine is a symptom of kidney disease). Those metabolites would normally come from the natural breakdown of muscle, which is being continually replaced. I imagine this myth arises from the fact that, during weight training, your muscles are “damaged” and there will be a spike in urine creatinine, possibly to an “abnormal” level. In fact there’s nothing abnormal about it at all. It’s just your kidneys doing their job, and as far as I know it doesn’t harm them in any way as long as you don’t have a pre-existing kidney disease.

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thanks guys !

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[quote=“tommy525”]I try to eat right and all that, but im around 30pct body fat (according to my scale) and thats of course too high. Would it benefit me at all to drink one of those cans of protein shakes for bfast? Currently not even eating much bfast due to time constraints.

Or would that not benefit me. I don’t want to waste 2.50 usd/can on that if its not going to do me any good. It says it has 27gms of protein in each shake.[/quote]

Well the first thing i spot is that you “try to eat right” but you’re at 30% body fat. That kinda doesn’t add up. I think you need to start by admitting you might not know how to eat right for your activity level. It’s not uncommon. The recomendation of the Atkins book is a good one.

As to whether or not you should have a protein shake, if you’re already not eating much breakfast but you add the calories of a protein shake on top of what you’re already eating without increasing activity levels then you could be in trouble. Adding more calories without increasing exercise is usually a bad idea. And in this case, a canned protein shake you didn’t make yourself is likely to be loaded with sugar.

HOWEVER, protein isn’t just any old calories. We’ve seen (and some research has backed this up) people eat a protein meal in the morning and find themselves eating slightly less at lunch. Having protein first thing in the morning blunts cortisol, which is good for fat loss. So if I were you’re trainer, I’d have you try it for a week and see if you eat less at lunch, thereby possibly losing some weight.

As for the recommendations in the thread to not consume much protein if you aren’t exercising, the body needs protein to maintain the muscle mass it has. And all kinds of people – exercisers and non-exercisers alike – have done well on the Atkins diet, paleo, primal, etc. We’ve seen some dramatic fat loss in short times due to a high protein diet. So I can’t agree with the recommendations to not do high protein unless you’re exercising heavily.

People talk about protein going down the toilet but that’s due to people having weak digestive systems, not the protein itself. Everyone I know and certainly everyone on high protein needs to be taking a pre and probiotic at least semi-regularly to maintain a healthy gut. Your body needs support when changing to a diet like this and that’s often overlooked. However, there’s a big difference between a steak and a whey shake. Whey is super easy for the body to digest and steak is much more complex. Keep that in mind, as well.

All protein enters your bloodstream as amino acids, or very short chains of them. Your kidneys mostly flush out protein metabolites, not protein (protein in the urine is a symptom of kidney disease). Those metabolites would normally come from the natural breakdown of muscle, which is being continually replaced. I imagine this myth arises from the fact that, during weight training, your muscles are “damaged” and there will be a spike in urine creatinine, possibly to an “abnormal” level. In fact there’s nothing abnormal about it at all. It’s just your kidneys doing their job, and as far as I know it doesn’t harm them in any way as long as you don’t have a pre-existing kidney disease.[/quote]

Thanks for saving me the time in explaining that. :bow:

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From what I’ve read there are conflicting opinions and various study results regarding high protein diets. All agree that a high protein diet is ill-advised for those with weak or otherwise compromised kidney function, as the nitrogen waste from digested protein sources causes further harm. But, the nitrogen waste is itself toxic and the body must remove it. In excess this can strain even healthy kidneys over time, according to some peoples’ views. Other studies show it’s not shown to be harmful, but for how long? I don’t think I’ll subject my body to the constant removal of a toxic substance at a much-greater-than-necessary level for long periods of time, but that’s just me. If you’re out of shape and have high body fat your kidneys may be under more strain than your realize. It might be a good idea to make sure your kidneys are healthy to start with before you choose to place higher demands on them, imo.

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Tommy, this eat every 3 hours system has worked out great for me. No more mid-morning crashes. Also taking away all sugary treats -chocolates, candies, creamy cakes and packed cookies (our friend bakes low sugar dense cakes for treats, sure you can find those in SF) Oh and avoid granola bars and other supposedly healthy packed stuff.

Definetively go for breakfast every day. If you do not have time before you go out, do the protein shake and then at the office, sip coffee and a sammich/filled bread/omelette and potatoes like I had today. Just make sure you are never too hungry. That wil keep your energy levels up and then you can add moderate exercise, combining some weight lifting for instance -at home, while listening to salsa music -which, BTW, some salsa lessons would get you sweating quickly. I know we are all busy but we are not spring chickens anymore and we have to take care of ourselves if we want to last and keep the machinery running properly. It is not about carrying a six pack, but rather about lie beyond sixty. That should be our goal.

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Seems to me the whole debate about “high protein” comes down to the definition of “high”. The normal recommendation is ~1g/kg/day, but vegans survive (barely) on much less. A hard day in the fields (or 2hrs at the gym) might push that to 2-3g/day. Realistically, that might mean 200g of meat and 1kg of other sources. People have been eating like that for millennia without any noticeable epidemics of kidney failure. It’s physically impossible to eat a balanced diet which contains “too much” protein - one’s stomach simply isn’t that big.

If you already have a bad diet loaded with sugar, synthetic fats and refined carbs, a protein shake in the morning is not addressing the actual problem. While it might blunt your lunchtime appetite, especially if you’re not eating breakfast at all, I can’t agree that it’s a good idea, either financially or nutritionally. There are far better ways of achieving that result.

If, on the other hand, you’re on an Atkins-like diet (which, in its later phases, is simply healthy eating) then you will inevitably be eating more protein (and fat) because you’re eating fewer processed carbohydrates. But when you look at how that protein is delivered, it’s no bad thing. It annoys me when people dismissively characterize Atkins as a “high protein” diet, and therefore (QED!) harmful. This misconception is based on the American view that protein comes only from meat, and vegetables are some sort of esoteric food for sandal-wearing liberals. In his book, Atkins actually makes a lot of noise about vegetables - he uses them to add bulk to a meal, and also for their raw nutritional value (including protein). Your meat intake will most likely be lower than the American average: ~200g/day, apparently, which seems like waaay too much for a sedentary adult - not because of the protein content (40-60g) but because of the well-documented effects of too much meat. If Americans aren’t getting enough protein, it’s because they’re not eating their veg.

The above is not directed at tommy specifically. Just random pontificating.

Tommy: Icon is right, don’t let yourself get hungry. That’s when you pig out on stuff you shouldn’t, and your body will do weird things with your food if it thinks you’re starving. If you “don’t feel like” breakfast early in the morning, it just takes practice. Give it a week, and start small; you’ll soon get used to it. Although you can have breakfast on the hoof, it’s not ideal. Get up earlier and make it a little ritual - 20 minutes of stress-free eating. Your life is your own, not your employer’s, so learn to take it back.

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I don’t think it would be too devastating for most of us if you took off some time from checking new posts on Forumosa to make time for exercise. I enjoy reading your posts and all, but I’m just saying it’s not too hard to find time to exercise if you try.

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Disclaimer: I’m not trying to refute what finely and formosa fitness are saying, i’m just throwing out some other ideas that exist out there. I’m getting to the point where it’s hard to believe the validity of any study. A year or two or 5 later a different study usually claims something completely opposite, especially when it comes to diet. Refined and processed sugars and grains seem to be the biggest evils in the modern diet. I think finely has a good point about the source of protein. When i ate mostly vegetarian back home i often combined rice and pinto beans, which together cover all 8 essential amino acids. That along with some dairy foods and a fair amount of peanut butter made my diet fairly high in protein. But it also included a lot of healthy carbs and fats and not much animal fat. Never felt or looked better. Nevertheless, from what I’ve heard i definitely wouldn’t take any protein supplements. Vitamins are a waste of money too. Eat the right foods and you’ll get better quality and enough quantity.

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Bump. According to this article, it’s not half of Taiwanese who are overweight - but around 45%.

This is from a rather weird article from the Taiwan News about how “Taiwan is the most overweight country in Asia”. The numbers are that “a shockingly high 45.4 percent” have a BMI over 24. And that’s apparently the fattest in Asia. No caveats about accuracy of BMI (or that it’s over 25 that’s supposed to be overweight).

And the rest of the article goes into how this would seem to totally contradict that fact a third of the population exercises regularly, and then it quotes a Traditional Chinese physician about how to exercise properly in order to lose weight (don’t “suddenly engage in an intensive activity”; and don’t be “overly strenuous”).

And nothing, nothing whatsoever, is said about diet.

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Disagree. Diet is enormously more important for losing or keeping off weight than exercise. However, exercise has many important benefits than just burning calories.

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I really don’t know where they get this stuff from. I just got back from the Philippines where literally everyone is overweight - or at least has a bulging spare tyre. About 15% are grossly obese - shapeless bags of flab with barely enough muscle mass to hold their insides inside. I come back to Taiwan and, with a few exceptions (old people, mostly) everyone looks “normal” to me.

BMI is a completely useless metric for obesity, especially when comparing across different countries. Unless the researchers are doing proper tests for both visceral and subcutaneous fat, in every country in Asia, their observations are meaningless.

Chen’s recommendation for exercise - steady-state, low-heartrate cardio - is completely ineffective for weight maintenance. In fact it’s precisely the sort of exercise that can induce a fat-storage response in people who take the standard advise to limit calories and eat less fat.

2 Likes
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A lot of people here still think BMI is legit. Information should be widely disseminated about how it’s basically bullshit.

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There are people for whom BMI gets it wrong, like body builders, but in general if an individual has a high BMI then they are fat.

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The other issue is height. Based on their BMI a short person might be led to believe they are thinner than they really are, while the opposite is true for tall people. I think according to the BMI calculator I’m emaciated, which is simply not true.

I understand the statistical convenience of having one tidy number especially when it comes to a really big sample size, but I think to make the BMI formula better reflect reality, it should be adjusted to suit the average height of the group being tested.

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Nobody who knows anything about this is going to disagree with that.

Yeah, that would be the obvious country that comes to mind. My guess is perhaps they have better numbers for Taiwan - pretty much everybody does a regular health check of some sort whereas perhaps it isn’t so readily available in poorer countries.

BMI is intended to take generalized info from large populations and nobody has demonstrated that it’s not effective in doing precisely this. However, even for individuals, outside of the rare person like a bodybuilder who has intentionally increased their bodyweight 30kg above what they would weigh otherwise, it’s probably a fair enough indicator that a person is overweight.

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I’m calling this out as false as well.

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There’s no way a whole 45% of people here are overweight. Unless they all hide indoors where I can’t see them?

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BMI is there or thereabouts correct and it gives fat people a straightforward number they can ignore.

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Partly our perceptions of thin and fat have changed, I think. Just into “overweight” by BMI looks kind of thin by today’s standards; the people in beach photos from the 1960s - presumably somewhat normal at the time - look almost emaciated today.

But, as Finley and others have suggested, there have got to be issues with applying BMI as the same standard to different populations. (And the article does define over 24 BMI as overweight, which isn’t the normal standard either; that 24.01 - 24.99 range covers quite a few people.)