Hanyu Pinyin Battle Lost?


#161

[quote=“Hobart”][quote=“HakkaSonic”]Hobart really is getting into the political culture here. Dalton Gang and Feiren offer him some support and, shortly thereafter, old Hobart slips `em the red envelope (25 guanxi apiece).

By the way Hobart, they do that in China, too. I think you should start using green envelopes.[/quote]

Don’t be an arsehole. Really now, some of you guys posts are getting ridiculous. I was only saying thanks for their support. I can’t take on every rabid foreigner Hanyu pinyin devotee on Forumosa all by myself. I don’t have the time.[/quote]

The fact that you are seemingly doing it by yourself speaks volumes. In any case, Hobart, I’m not a “rabid foreigner Hanyu pinyin devotee.” I’m just picky about consistency. If the government adopts Tongyong Pinyin for political / identity reasons, that’s one thing. What bothers me is that they adopt Tongyong AND also claim that they want to globalize (i.e. use more international standards), that they want to make things easier for tourists / foreign investors etc. That’s all.


#162

Success! :smiley: Mission Accomplished! :smiley:


#163

Hey Feiren - that is a big increase on the 2 a few months ago!

You are just the sort of missguided sole that these Chinese “experts” are looking for to prove foreigner support. Your petition would be misrepresented as proof that an overwhelming majority of foreigners do not support Hanyu Pinyin. The fact that it has only 5 signatures would be hidden.

Are you realy that keen to kick the rest of the expatriate comunity that hard.


#164

[quote=“HakkaSonic”]Hobart really is getting into the political culture here. Dalton Gang and Feiren offer him some support and, shortly thereafter, old Hobart slips `em the red envelope (25 guanxi apiece).

By the way Hobart, they do that in China, too. I think you should start using green envelopes.[/quote]

i don’t think there’s any need to be insulting, pal. maybe 25 guanxi can buy your support, or in China maybe. :slight_smile:

bah. the x, q and zh are changed. if there’s some kind of major trip-busting changes to the vowels let me know cause i don’t see them


#165

bah. the x, q and zh are changed. if there’s some kind of major trip-busting changes to the vowels let me know cause I don’t see them[/quote]
Daltongang, you underestimate the differences. But even if you hadn’t, any difference whatsoever can only lead to problems. As for percentages, only about half of Taiwan place names are the same in tongyong and hanyu.


#166

One of the very few reasons I can think of for welcoming the coming return to power of the KMT is that it will consign Tongyong to the dustbin of history where it belongs.

But I’m not so sure we’ll be seeing many more of those Hanyu Pinyin signs around Taiwan. It’s far more likely that the old inertia will prevail and nothing will change, save in a few bastions of enlightenment like Mayor Ma’s Taipei.


#167

[quote=“daltongang”][quote=“HakkaSonic”]Hobart really is getting into the political culture here. Dalton Gang and Feiren offer him some support and, shortly thereafter, old Hobart slips `em the red envelope (25 guanxi apiece).

By the way Hobart, they do that in China, too. I think you should start using green envelopes.[/quote]

I don’t think there’s any need to be insulting, pal. maybe 25 guanxi can buy your support, or in China maybe. :slight_smile:[/quote]

Hours after making this statement, daltongang transferred 50 guanxi to Hobart. I think it’s now pretty clear who is the mastermind behind the pro-Tongyong movement.


#168

[quote=“HakkaSonic”]

Hours after making this statement, daltongang transferred 50 guanxi to Hobart. I think it’s now pretty clear who is the mastermind behind the pro-Tongyong movement.[/quote]

hahaha, thought you’d notice. just a small token of respect.

[quote]
Daltongang, you underestimate the differences. But even if you hadn’t, any difference whatsoever can only lead to problems. As for percentages, only about half of Taiwan place names are the same in tongyong and hanyu.[/quote]

wo buyiweiran. perfect tongyong i believe :slight_smile: 72 or half or whatever may be different, but if any tourist has a heart attack finding s-h-i-H-l-i-n or “chongcing n rd” because they know hanyu i’ll eat my hat.


#169

[quote=“daltongang”][quote=“HakkaSonic”]

Hours after making this statement, daltongang transferred 50 guanxi to Hobart. I think it’s now pretty clear who is the mastermind behind the pro-Tongyong movement.[/quote]

hahaha, thought you’d notice. just a small token of respect.

[quote]
Daltongang, you underestimate the differences. But even if you hadn’t, any difference whatsoever can only lead to problems. As for percentages, only about half of Taiwan place names are the same in tongyong and hanyu.[/quote]

wo buyiweiran. perfect tongyong I believe :slight_smile: 72 or half or whatever may be different, but if any tourist has a heart attack finding s-h-i-H-l-i-n or “chongcing n rd” because they know hanyu I’ll eat my hat.[/quote]

Dalton, will you learn how to use HTML, please? That second quote was Cranky’s, but the way you put in the message makes it look like I’m the one who’s whacked out obsessive about Tongyong and Hanyu.


#170

Hobart, I was reading some of your posts and for some reason the song Daydream Believer popped into my head. I decided to rewrite the lyrics just for you.

"Tongyong Believer

Oh, I don’t need, any facts
I just want to grind my axe
Tongyong Pinyin is the way to go…

Scholarship? Oh, no thanks
You must all be commie wanks
You’re probably real big fans of Edgar Snow…

Cheer up Hanyu-ites
You’ll soon be alright
Next year if the KMT
Can win election night

I hate X and Q
By formosa, yes I do
I’d hope they’d never make it to Taiwan…
But then Ma Ying-jeou
Brought them in with one quick blow
And now those letters may never be gone…

Cheer up Hanyu-ites
You’ll soon be alright
Next year if the KMT
Can win election night."


#171

That very unpleasant TSU legislator Chen Chien-ming (


#172

This article kind of says it all. Key point: The Mandarin Promotion Council, under the Ministry of Education, votes to adopt Tongyong Pinyin. The outcome: 10 for Tongyong Pinyin, 0 against, and 16 absentions. Am I to assume it would have passed if one person voted for Tongyong and 25 abstained? Doesn’t say much for academic freedom in Taiwan.


#173

These guys have to be a demonstration case of sh*t for brains. They should be dissected and put in a glass case.

“Asked whether the needs of foreigners were taken into account when choosing the system, Huang said “foreigners will solve the question themselves.””

So, despite the fact that romanisation is for foreigners, these idiots continue on their merry way and say f**k the foreigners - our political games are much more interesting.

This sort of thinking will see Taiwan once again rejected for UN membership in 2049.


#174

My favorite part is the guy who says: “very few foreigners who understand Mandarin know the differences between Tongyong and Hanyu, given that Hanyu is the system used overseas for Mandarin study.” Yes, and if I made up my own system, Hakkasonic pinyin, very few foreigners would know the difference between it and Hanyu as well.


#175

Romanization is not just for foreigners. It will be widely used by Taiwanese in government agencies, businesses, computer systems, and in the schools.

Foreigners, at least those with a North American/Europoean background, are a tiny minority that can’t vote. Why should the government cater to us?


#176

[quote=“Feiren”][quote=“rian”]
So, despite the fact that romanisation is for foreigners, these idiots continue on their merry way and say f**k the foreigners - our political games are much more interesting.
[/quote]

Romanization is not just for foreigners. It will be widely used by Taiwanese in government agencies, businesses, computer systems, and in the schools.

Foreigners, at least those with a North American/Europoean background, are a tiny minority that can’t vote. Why should the government cater to us?[/quote]

Feiren, haven’t we been over this already?

Anyway, I have a question: What do you think of the vote on Tongyong Pinyin – 10 for, 0 against and 16 abstentions? Do you think that this is indicative that even most of the “experts” within the government think that Tongyong Pinyin is not such a good idea? After all, if they thought it was good for Taiwan and its citizens, why abstain?


#177

The vote was along political and ideological lines. The Mandarin Promotion Council was historically was a tool to enforce Mandarin speaking in education and government. Broadly speaking, the “experts” on that committee were pro-unification. Now of course the new government has stacked the council with friendly pro-independence “experts.” Those for AND those against Tongyong are primarily driven by ideological rather than scholarly agendas. When foreigners blindly support Hanyu Pinyin, they play into the hands of the pro-unification camp.


#178

Feiren, you are contradicting yourself. If the council was indeed, as you write, “stacked” with pro-independence experts, why couldn’t it even get half of them to vote in favour of Tongyong Pinyin? Does this mean that even the pro-independence camp thinks it’s a bad idea?


#179

I don’t remember all the details. I think that some of the committee members who abstained were absent. Pressure was exerted on others to stop them from voting.


#180

Pressure from whom? The point is that if the deck was stacked in favor of pro-independence types, at the very least, a simple majority should have voted for adopting Tongyong Pinyin. Why didn’t they, especially since it’s claimed that Tongyong is so great for romanizing aboriginal languages, etc.?