Harsh fact: Taiwan does not own even a single inch of territorial waters, not to mention an EEZ

In 2004, Collin Powell expressed the official position of the US government: “There is only one China. Taiwan is not independent. It does not enjoy sovereignty as a nation, and that remains our policy, our firm policy.” From here, we can infer that 1) neither Republic of China (only a government in exile) have the sovereign right 2) nor there exists any sovereign state to own any territorial land and water on or near Taiwan. Therefore, by such legal status in international laws, Taiwan does not own even a single inch of territorial waters, not to mention an EEZ.

And there is no solid evidence Christ is the son of God and yet billions believe.

Nobody “owns” a sodding EEZ. Or territorial waters, or whatever other legalese the politicians make up. The sea is the sea. We the people choose to allow governments administration over various parts of it, and they’ve made an almighty pig’s ear out of the whole bloody lot. TBTB are just as dumb and short-sighted as any of the rest of us, and what the US gov’t says doesn’t validate any of it. If people get shot up while pillaging what doesn’t belong to them, that’s their own lookout. They chose to be there, knowing full well that there are other lawbreakers out there with bigger boats and bigger guns. Fuck’em.

Drunken rant over. Flame at will.

But yeah many Philippinos are taking your exact position. Taiwan is not a country ,therefore Taiwan does NOT exist.

Great. So next time when the Taiwan navy blows up a Philippino gunboat, we can remind them that Taiwan does NOT exist. It is a figment of your imagination. It is a fictitious destroyer that blew your gunboat out of the water.

And 87,000 Philippinos are in a temporary state of nonexistence because they are in a non existing place.

The funny part (to me) of this attitude is that these Philippinos seem to be wishing that China gets involved?

I think the shit is going to be much harder to pass if the fisherman in question was from China.

I think the Phil govt will very much wish it was a Taiwanese boat instead that they shot up.

Unfortunately, Philippinos are right and they are smart enough to put their knowledge into good use.

Should they do such thing (Taiwan navy invading Phil EEZ), they can be punished as pirates or terrorists in the international community. Acutally they already did invade Philippines’s EEZ the other day. Tha’s an act of piracy. This shouldn’t be surprising to anyone who knew a little bit about the pirate legacy in Formosa.

Actually Powell spoke wrongly as many commentators stated at the time. The US position is that it recognizes that both sides of the strait acknowledge there is One China which is not the same as saying that is the US position. The US considers Taiwan’s status undetermined.

Powell said that as the 65th United States Secretary of State. Taiwan’s status is undertermined so cannot claim any sovereign right or title to any land and sea.

I know that it’s very painful and disadvantageous to live in a place, which is not governed by a sovereign state. Palestinians know this pain well. Taiwanese will feel the same as its neighboring countries are getting stronger and meaner. On the other hand, it offers a little comfort that the citizens of the PRC are not happier :slight_smile:

I know that it’s very painful and disadvantageous to live in a place, which is not governed by a sovereign state. Palestinians know this pain well. Taiwanese will feel the same as its neighboring countries are getting stronger and meaner. On the other hand, it offers some comfort that the citizens of the PRC are not happier :slight_smile:

:stuck_out_tongue: printless as usual up to his usual shenanigans . Fun tho :slight_smile:

Taiwan govt doesnt exist, blah blah blah. TEchnically correct.

The good news is that more and more “real” countries are simply letting in Taiwanese citizens without a visa, because well its not a real country right so how to issue real visas to fake countries eh? :stuck_out_tongue:

And Japan has finally decided that its good to have some sort of agreement with these pesky Taiwanese pirates from the old colonies.

And of late the hitherto unrecognized and still unrecognized tW govt is appealing to Uncle Sam to talk some sense into the Philippino “savages” (most Taiwanese think of philippinos as savages, but actually the taiwanese are partly related to taiwanese aboriginals who were also at one time considered savages---- taiwanse refer to their aboriginals as Chee huan , which means Green Savage).

So Taiwanese should realize that before they call the Philippinos savages they should also look in the mirror…closely.

But these two kids (taiwan and Philippines) are having a bit of a fight. So Uncle Sam is being asked to say something intelligent to stop the fight and save face for both sides. Sort of like when my two very savage , Taiwanese persian cats would go at each other, and my dad would throw a book at both of them to break it up.

Many philippinos are laughing at the Taiwanese asking Uncle Sam for help and saying Taiwanese should ask their chinese big brother for help.

(NOT SMART a thing to wish for actually)

Speaking about piracy legacy of Taiwan. For thousands of years it was known as a no mans land. The local aboriginals had a nasty habit of beheading every single person that landed on the rock. That is when they could find the time , when they are not too busy beheading themselves.

Sailors would shun the island in fear.

Until the stupid foreigners (dutch , spanish,french and what not) who didnt know any better set foot on the rock. And soon the local savages found themselves up a barrel of a gun. Meantime the portugeuse …never can spell that word…named the island Isla Formosa, but were smart enough to NOT set foot on it, didnt set up any missions on the rock.

The dutch (being both smart and dummies) imported all these male men from China to work in taiwan. These men then married all the local “savage” women and essentially married their race into oblivion.

Except that actually the two become one.

you can always count on tommy to put out a nutshell of taiwan history (and while it will not always be true , it will always be a good story )

There is no way this thread is not a supreme example of trolling.

Now temp me.

[quote=“Novaspes”]There is no way this thread is not a supreme example of trolling.

Now temp me.[/quote]

I promise not to make this thread a worse trolling than the infamous omnipresent One China Policy.

I agree with the ONE CHINA and ONE TAIWAN policy :slight_smile:

Oh, I forgot that the US is the omnipotent leader of the world.

I’m sorry, but isn’t what the US says about what is what and belongs to whom pretty damn irrelevant?

[quote=“tommy525”]:stuck_out_tongue: printless as usual up to his usual shenanigans . Fun tho :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I am also capable of an honest discussion. Here it is. “the notion of order is in fact context-dependent.” (Science, Order, & Creativity, Bohm and Peat1987). A set of policy rules, including One China Policy, Taiwan Relation Act, Shanghai Communiques, Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan, have created and maintained an order in the West Pacific geopolitical region surrounding Taiwan. The actual essence of this order is not easy to describe so therefore a lame term called ‘status quo’ is used to describe it. Anyway, everyone perceives there is an order and everyone likes it. However, as Bohm and Peat pointed out in their book that an order is context dependent, the ‘status quo’ can no longer be an order in a new context. What’s the new context? Just to name a few, 1) Taiwanese people have a distinctive non-Chinese self-identity, 2) China becomes rich, very rich, 3) Taiwan becomes poor, 4) America is less self-confident, 5) fishery resources are depleted, 6) Philippines and Vietnam want to have a bigger slice of pie, 7) North Korea is even more crazy than ever, 8) S Korea becomes a target of resentment, … and so on.

To sum up this new context, a key change is that ROC government has lost its grip of the sovereign claim over Taiwan. If people do not perceive this, bumblings occur. I am sure that Ma will not be the last Bumbler. Stanton warned that ‘status quo’ has changed. People especially Taiwanese people should heed his words carefully.

[quote=“printlessfoot”][quote=“tommy525”]:stuck_out_tongue: printless as usual up to his usual shenanigans . Fun tho :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I am also capable of an honest discussion. Here it is. “the notion of order is in fact context-dependent.” (Science, Order, & Creativity, Bohm and Peat1987). A set of policy rules, including One China Policy, Taiwan Relation Act, Shanghai Communiques, Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan, have created and maintained an order in the West Pacific geopolitical region surrounding Taiwan. The actual essence of this order is not easy to describe so therefore a lame term called ‘status quo’ is used to describe it. Anyway, everyone perceives there is an order and everyone likes it. However, as Bohm and Peat pointed out in their book that an order is context dependent, the ‘status quo’ can no longer be an order in a new context. What’s the new context? Just to name a few, 1) Taiwanese people have a distinctive non-Chinese self-identity, 2) China becomes rich, very rich, 3) Taiwan becomes poor, 4) America is less self-confident, 5) fishery resources are depleted, 6) Philippines and Vietnam want to have a bigger slice of pie, 7) North Korea is even more crazy than ever, 8) S Korea becomes a target of resentment, … and so on.

To sum up this new context, a key change is that ROC government has lost its grip of the sovereign claim over Taiwan. If people do not perceive this, bumblings occur. I am sure that Ma will not be the last Bumbler. Stanton warned that ‘status quo’ has changed. People especially Taiwanese people should heed his words carefully.[/quote]

so… what are we talking about again? exactly?

It doesn’t matter if Taiwan “owns” its territorial waters or an EEZ because China does. Six years ago that would be a very bad thing, but today, with improved relations between the governments here and the one in Beijing (whether you support that or not), China is willing to give Taiwan some leeway in international affairs under the pretense that it’s all the same country. So if a Philippines boat decided to start fishing off the coast of Kaohsiung, they may not consider themselves in Tawian’s territory, but under the “one China” policy they love to harp on about, they ARE in China’s waters. At this stage, I’m sure China would be happy to hand the enforcement aspect over to Taiwanese authorities (within limits) which makes the whole point about it is/is not the territory of Taiwan quite moot.

On another issue, the US recognizes Taiwan as part of China, not undisputed. See the Three Communiques, the cornerstone of Washington’s China policy.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Communiqu%C3%A9s

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]On another issue, the US [color=#000080]recognizes[/color] Taiwan as part of China, not undisputed. See the Three Communiques, the cornerstone of Washington’s China policy.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Communiqu%C3%A9s[/quote]

Acknowledging another party or parties’ position–even with the additional statement that one does not challenge the other party or parties’ position–is not the same thing as agreeing with that position. I think that language was carefully chosen.

[quote=“Novaspes”]There is no way this thread is not a supreme example of trolling.

Now temp me.[/quote]

Taiwan and the Philippines should just get a third-party nation to patrol the sea between the two countries.
Off the top of my head, I think the Swiss Navy is the perfect candidate because Switzerland is still neutral.
The Swiss Navy has a long and proud history patrolling the world’s oceans.