Ugly. 4 gripes.
(I have to acknowledge this last one is very subjective…)
I’m with you on that one, although in fairness they do look better in person… that said, the Hartford with the cast rims and wide rear tire etc. knocks the KTR all over the playground looks wise, IMHO… it’s wierd the KTR was Kymco’s answer to the Hartford which was selling really well in post big bike, “motorcycle revival” Taiwan… but even though it was the looks of the Hartford that was driving sales, and the KTR was a straight knock off of a Honda 220cc funky retro bike, Kymco still managed to get the KTR’s looks horribly wrong… but like I always say, it does satisfy the 3 crucial criteria for Taiwanese consumers… cheap, cheap and cheap…
Isn’t it amazing what a difference some nice wheels make? With regular rims it would be just another boring grandpa-bike…
Now that’s for sure, however, Ratlung is as Taiwanese as the Pope. Well, quite so 
The KTR sucks in the rain unless it’s fitted with a road fender on the front wheel which I’ve seen many already. I don’t know if it’s just me but I’m already seeing rusted KTRs and they bloody just came out. There’s too much cheap painted chrome on it and it rusts before your eyes, even the wheels rust quite quickly.
On the other hand, I notice many old hartfords that do not look that bad at all. I would think that the hartford is a better bike for Taiwan. It has less chrome and more painted surfaces(black) which will not rust as fast.
One good thing about the KTR however is it can go on trails with the proper tires. That’s always fun.
bobepine
Ah, Bobepine, pleased to hear your thoughts.
I had a poke around with the rear guard on the Hartford at the shop and it seem like was VERY heavy duty compared to the Sym Legend. This and other things indicates a more solid bike for the money.
OK boys, true story that happened just seconds ago.
My partner at the office here lives out of town and commutes by car.
He does have a newish Breeze 150 out at his place that he drives on the weekends.
Earlier in the lunch hour he went down to Jason’s on the bus.
Upon arriving back at the office about 45 minutes ago, he realized he’s dropped his Shuffle, but thought he knew where.
So I tossed him my keys and said, like, run back there quick on my bike and see if it’s still there, taking the bus will take too long, he says OK and splits.
He just walked back in, shaking his head.
I ask him if he got it, he says no, it was gone.
Then he says “Now I got big problems at home, one, I gotta tell the wife I need to buy a new iPod, and two, I gotta tell her I’m buying a f*cking Hartford…”
Did I mention how much fun it is to drive?
I’m pretty sure the KTR is actually a tooling of the Kawasaki TR 250cc. Someone (might’ve even been you, Plasma) was saying that Kymco control Kawasaki dealership in Taiwan.
Check it out here.
Cheers
kamiwaza
[quote=“the chief”]OK boys, true story that happened just seconds ago.
My partner at the office here lives out of town and commutes by car.
He does have a newish Breeze 150 out at his place that he drives on the weekends.
Earlier in the lunch hour he went down to Jason’s on the bus.
Upon arriving back at the office about 45 minutes ago, he realized he’s dropped his Shuffle, but thought he knew where.
So I tossed him my keys and said, like, run back there quick on my bike and see if it’s still there, taking the bus will take too long, he says OK and splits.
He just walked back in, shaking his head.
I ask him if he got it, he says no, it was gone.
Then he says “Now I got big problems at home, one, I gotta tell the wife I need to buy a new iPod, and two, I gotta tell her I’m buying a f*cking Hartford…”
Did I mention how much fun it is to drive?[/quote]
Oh man, that sucks big time. You have all my sympathie. So instead of showing us your bike tomorrow, would you want to join us to check out some shops?
Sounds like you guys think this is a reasonaly good small beginner’s bike.
If you were in a market dominated by the Japs, would you dare to put it in?
[quote=“kamiwaza”]
I’m pretty sure the KTR is actually a tooling of the Kawasaki TR 250cc. Someone (might’ve even been you, Plasma) was saying that Kymco control Kawasaki dealership in Taiwan.
Check it out here.
Cheers
kamiwaza[/quote]
yikes… it’s worse than I thought… It’s a dead ringer for the old model Honda FTR220 but I think you’re right that they must have stolen / licenced the tooling from Kawasaki because that is identical…
[quote=“X3M”]Sounds like you guys think this is a reasonaly good small beginner’s bike.
If you were in a market dominated by the Japs, would you dare to put it in?[/quote]
if it were too far from loads of cheap spares I’d be concerned… also to compete it’d have to be cheap!.. problem is Chinese made 125’s are already establishing quite a good reputation in the “cheap as chips” sector of the market in the EU and US and there’s no way Hartford can compete witht these price wise and while there may be a small difference quality wise, trying to be the premium brand bargain basement bike isn’t a game many factories and dealers can / want to play…
I have the Hartford VR 150cc. It runs a max speed of around 115kmh.
Not that I need that much speed on the twisties up here.
It a great 2 up machine for long trips. It will do over 300km per tank of fuel.
Cooling Tower came up here and took his GF around on it. She said it’s very comfortable… much better than his Breeze.
It’s not a sports bike and I’ve had no problems with mine. It doesnt get much use now as I’m away from home so much.
The good thing about it is that not many locals ask to borrow it as they can’t get their feet on the ground. It’s also a good bike in the city as I can see above the traffic and don’t need to worry about potholes.
Rust, what’s that?
Don’t worry, if you look on Yahoo Taiwan’s auctions there is an easy way to upgrade your KTR to the power and build quality of a Kawasaki TR 250cc. Just stick on and go!
I think to be fair to the KTR, its engine (4v OHC) is pretty decent for a local offering, though it’s not related to the Kawasaki job (2v). Small size should mean a pretty decent power:weight ratio compared to other 150s. Can’t find much info on this outside Kymco’s website though…
BTW Plasmatron I checked out the Honda FTR223(?)… it’s could be an identical twin but I think the fuel tank is a little different. Looks like a fun bike though.
Cheers
kamiwaza
[quote=“Satellite TV”] It’s also a good bike in the city as I can see above the traffic and don’t need to worry about potholes.
Rust, what’s that?
[/quote]
See what I’m saying. That bike looks like it’s got a few miles on it and don’t mind me it looks dirty on the pic as well but it sure does look like it’s all in one piece. And yeah, no rust.
I like that model a lot. Would be a blast on trails an like you said, I’m sure it’s really smooth on the bumps with the rear mono-shock and the extra travel on the front forks.
Down side, you get soaked on it just like on the KTR when it rains. It’s all relative however because in hard rain, you’ll be soaked on any bike unless you have the proper rain gear. Just sucks to go out dressed nice once the roads are pretty much dried up and mess your pants and shoes because of one single remaining puddle.
bobepine
I had a good look at one of these in the flesh yesterday. It looked really nice but I think the guy had spent some serious $$ getting to look that good with some aftermarket bits.
The Hartford Dealer told me today they are 66K new.
[quote=“Truant”]I had a good look at one of these in the flesh yesterday. It looked really nice but I think the guy had spent some serious $$ getting to look that good with some aftermarket bits.
The Hartford Dealer told me today they are 66K new.[/quote]
Mine came with a helmet and that black box on the back for about that price.
Yes it’s dirty. It’s not like I need to wash it. It sits outside in the open.
Just remember to keep the chain lubed and properly tensioned. It has surprisingly good brakes with great feel. Good thing is that at the price if you drop it you won’t be spending much to fix it. Pretty much it’s a bike you can service yourself.
Plasmatron, when you get time could you post a bit more on why you didn’t like the Hartford and why you feel the KTR is better? Do you feel that component/build quality is better on the KTR?
[quote=“plasmatron”]can’t say much for the Hartford 150cc bike pictured since I’ve never ridden one, but I did very briefly own the supermoto version of the Hartford 150cc offroad VR or whatever it is that uses the same engine, I say briefly since I bought it new since they refused to let me test ride it, rode it around the block, realized what a hellish mistake I’d made and put it right back up for sale on the shop floor… ouch… 
150cc 4-stroke with 2 valves (if I remember correctly) won’t blow your socks off, but it’ll be a good runabout… [/quote][quote=“plasmatron”]KTR 150’s…
There’s really almost nothing I can say to fault this bike, 4valve new generation Kymco engine, comfortably adequate components and okay build quality for a Kymco, smooth, easy to ride, obviously no power house, but it’s okay… BUT and there’s a fly in the ointment… you could only get away with one of these things if you are well under 6 feet tall and I mean well under… I don’t know who Kymco built these KTR’s for but they’re BMX small and a mate who’s got one who’s somewhat vertically challenged still finds it a tight squeeze and his waife like wife don’t fit so good on the back either making 2 up a pain… plus tank range is about 100km… still that’s only 2 gripes about an otherwise top bang for your NT$50,000 bucks bike… oh and the rear rim will only take a 100 to 110 rear… 3 gripes…[/quote]
Spotted on Yahoo. People sure can make these bikes look different…
[quote=“joesax”]Plasmatron, when you get time could you post a bit more on why you didn’t like the Hartford and why you feel the KTR is better? Do you feel that component/build quality is better on the KTR?
[quote=“plasmatron”]can’t say much for the Hartford 150cc bike pictured since I’ve never ridden one, but I did very briefly own the supermoto version of the Hartford 150cc offroad VR or whatever it is that uses the same engine, I say briefly since I bought it new since they refused to let me test ride it, rode it around the block, realized what a hellish mistake I’d made and put it right back up for sale on the shop floor… ouch… 
150cc 4-stroke with 2 valves (if I remember correctly) won’t blow your socks off, but it’ll be a good runabout… [/quote][quote=“plasmatron”]KTR 150’s…
There’s really almost nothing I can say to fault this bike, 4valve new generation Kymco engine, comfortably adequate components and okay build quality for a Kymco, smooth, easy to ride, obviously no power house, but it’s okay… BUT and there’s a fly in the ointment… you could only get away with one of these things if you are well under 6 feet tall and I mean well under… I don’t know who Kymco built these KTR’s for but they’re BMX small and a mate who’s got one who’s somewhat vertically challenged still finds it a tight squeeze and his waife like wife don’t fit so good on the back either making 2 up a pain… plus tank range is about 100km… still that’s only 2 gripes about an otherwise top bang for your NT$50,000 bucks bike… oh and the rear rim will only take a 100 to 110 rear… 3 gripes…[/quote][/quote]
actually if anything I feel the opposite, I’d prefer the Hartford over the KTR… I bought the supermoto version of the Hartford VR offroad bike that SatelliteTV posted a pic of above… I was somewhat unrealistically expecting it to be a convenient, practical city runabout, immune to bumps, good view, front and rear discs, quite cool… problem is at the time I was only riding the Z1000 so when I got on the Hartford I just couldn’t believe the lack of go… in fairness it was a 125cc engine and not even broken in properly, but more than the lack of ooomph was the the fact that it was immediately apparent that I had been fooling myself thinking it would be a practical city bike… the seat was too narrow and high, my wife could bearly climb aboard, zero storage… bascially it just dawned on me that what I needed was a scooter, not another bike… I’m sure the VR-supermoto could/would be a good city bike for the right owner, but it wasn’t what I was (unrealistically) expecting…
I think the KTR is a good buy simply because it’s cheap, comparitively reliable, and 4v… But it is tiny, scrawny, and hit more branches than it missed falling out the ugly tree… if it were my money in the 125cc domestic road bike class I’d probably be looking at that wide tire Hartford and put in aftermarket rear shocks and new fork springs / oil to improve suspension and crucially ride height… and paint it “Steve McQueen” red/white/silver…
Never step off a 1000cc sports bike and expect a 150cc Hartfard to give you serious accceleration. It just isnt there.
You really need to look at why you’re buying a certain type of machine. I bought the Hartford because where I live the roads and trails can be very narrow. Landslides are a common feature with the rains up here. Sometimes I can get places a 4 wheel drive can’t.
The ride height on the Hartford can be adjusted for those with short legs
I’d like to have Plasmas BMW. But for me it’s not practicle for where I live. I’d be slipping the clutch trying to dawdle on tracks where speed are often 20kmh. First gear on the Hartford suits that purpose fine. But not on a 1200cc BMW.
Well, this rather informative thread served it’s purpose well.
Ratlung and I picked up 2 new HD-150S bikes last night.
One of the first things I’d like to change is the pipe. I have seen a few around with Stainless aftermarket pipes which look great but also give the bike a better note. Without an RPM guage, I like to hear the bike’s note a bit more.
I asked at one Hartford shop and the guy told me that basically they can get just about anything aftermarket for Hartfords. He said he would get in anything I wanted, no problem. When I asked about a catalogue or whatever he replied that there isn’t a catalogue, and I should just tell him what I want and he’ll get it. Seems to be a catch 22 situation to me, as I don’t really know what I want unless I can see it.
Any clues as to where to check out bits?