Hartford VR200X or VR200H

Hey guys,

Does anyone know where i can get Hardford VR200 around Taichung??? Or should i stick to CPI 250 SM??

CHeers.

[quote=“section61”]Hey guys,

Does anyone know where i can get Hardford VR200 around Taichung??? Or should i stick to CPI 250 SM??

CHeers.[/quote]

Hartford are made in taichung :wink:

Anyway its a piece of junk compared to the CPI, no comparison.

Get the 250sm.

The Hartford is a poseur bike, “please believe that this is a scale model of a replica of Harley”, sort of like a scale model of a Chinese replica of a Fender Strat. The CPI is a real supermoto, albeit 250cc vs. 400cc or 650cc or 950cc… it’s still a supermoto in its own right. The more aftermarket parts you put on it, the better it gets, but with all the aftermarket parts in the world, it won’t have the quality of a Zook DRZ 400SM.

Except that if you tried to ride it like a real supermoto it would fall to pieces pretty quick. The VR isn’t bad. My friend weighs 250 pounds plus and commutes on one from his home up in the mountains outside Xindian every day. Has done for several years now on the same bike without problems.
My CPI could probably do it too. Maybe a bit quicker and faster round the corners but not by much.
They’re BOTH poseur bikes, but they make very nice commuters for city riding, which is exactly what my CPI was bought for.

Uh? Doesn’t look anything like a Harley. Not that looking like a Harley is a good thing anyway. The description would fit Venox, Xing, Hipster, etc, etc, but I’m not aware of any Harloid products from Hartford.

I think the Hartford is fine for a cheap ‘n’ cheerful bike. If we’re honest both the Hartford and CPI are equally gutless and at least the Hartford is very easy and cheap to maintain. IMHO the CPI is too middle-ground to be attractive. For much less you can buy something almost as good that is more proven and less hassle. For a little more you can get into big bike territory or Hornet 250 with twice the power. Just don’t see the point really :ponder:

hornet 250 is the best bike in taiwan for zipping about on in my books.
I would say CB400 but then you need to get a bigger licence and all the hassles that go with the bigger bikes.

I rode a CPI, i thought it was rubbish, it was modded with a bigger carb too and it still didnt even TRY to get the front wheel up, way to revvy for a supermoto.

[quote=“smellybumlove”]
I rode a CPI, i thought it was rubbish, it was modded with a bigger carb too and it still didnt even TRY to get the front wheel up, way to revvy for a supermoto.[/quote]

Eh? Maybe I’m missing something, but “I rode a CPI, i thought it was rubbish”, seems a bit inconsistent with

“Hartford are made in Taichung. Anyway its a piece of junk compared to the CPI, no comparison.Get the 250sm.” That was you, wasn’t it?

But anyway, drawing conclusions (apparenly limited to ‘wheel up’ capability) from a modded bike is a bit suspect.

FAR too many people seem to be trying to cut in on my talking crap franchise lately.

What Llary said.

well i do honestly think the cpi is rubbish, the hartford i dont even register as a bike, its a heap of metal.
But if i had 100k to blow on a bike, it would be a 250SM.

I hate CRV’s too, but this is taiwan and we must make do with what we got :wink:

The CPI i rode was stock, rode into the shop, switched the carb and pipe (derestricting it really) and i tried it after the work was done (it was done properly) i was very dissapointed :frowning:

[quote=“smellybumlove”]well i do honestly think the cpi is rubbish, the hartford i dont even register as a bike, its a heap of metal.
But if i had 100k to blow on a bike, it would be a 250SM.

I hate CRV’s too, but this is taiwan and we must make do with what we got :wink:

The CPI i rode was stock, rode into the shop, switched the carb and pipe (derestricting it really) and i tried it after the work was done (it was done properly) i was very dissapointed :frowning:[/quote]
Interesting. What were you expecting from a tiny 250 single? I can get my front wheel up if I want to (although the question is of course, WHY?) and mine’s stock. Its a great city runaround though. Again, precisely why I bought it.

I’ve got a Hartford VR200 and whilst it maybe too heavy and not have enough poke for faster roads, it’s fine as a city run around and for runs around the hills.

[quote=“sandman”][quote=“smellybumlove”]well I do honestly think the cpi is rubbish, the hartford I don’t even register as a bike, its a heap of metal.
But if I had 100k to blow on a bike, it would be a 250SM.

I hate CRV’s too, but this is taiwan and we must make do with what we got :wink:

The CPI i rode was stock, rode into the shop, switched the carb and pipe (derestricting it really) and i tried it after the work was done (it was done properly) I was very dissapointed :frowning:[/quote]
Interesting. What were you expecting from a tiny 250 single? I can get my front wheel up if I want to (although the question is of course, WHY?) and mine’s stock. Its a great city runaround though. Again, precisely why I bought it.[/quote]

I expected a 30bhp 250cc single with torque and lightweight.
30bhp and 110kgs should equal serious wheelies and great fun, i found it to be very dull :frowning:
Ever ridden a DT125, the later water cooled model?.
That thing rips your neck off in 1st gear and it only had 20bhp.
Shame you cant get the later model in taiwan.

[quote=“smellybumlove”]I expected a 30bhp 250cc single with torque and lightweight.
30bhp and 110kgs should equal serious wheelies and great fun, i found it to be very dull :frowning:
Ever ridden a DT125, the later water cooled model?.
That thing rips your neck off in 1st gear and it only had 20bhp.
Shame you cant get the later model in Taiwan.[/quote]

I think the CPI is closer to 20hp which is about 25% more than the Hartfords but still couldn’t be described as powerful. No way am I knocking the thing for not having a gazillion horsepower but the point is that there is a rather large price premium over other single cylinder made-in-Taiwan bikes and I can’t honestly see where the money is going.

When compared to a Hartford 200S motorcycle, I think they are $82,000, the CPI is quite a bit more expensive at $109,000. The difference is $27,000.

What the CPI has that’s better than the 200S is a water cooled DOHC 4v engine as opposed to an OHC 2v air cooled unit. It has a monoshock back end with a rising rate linkage. The CPI also has a hydraulic disc rear brake as opposed to a mechanically actuated drum on the Hartford. The CPI’s forks are made by Showa.

As far as cost goes, that’s probably about it. I think the CPI has more cast ally ancillaries rather than pressed steel but I don’t know if that would make much of a difference to the price.

Does it add up to $27,000?

Ilary, I hope that goes some way to answering your questions. I know you’re a good bloke by the way you post. I wrote a post last week that was deemed too offensive to publish by the god-like beings who administrate this forum aimed at all the CPI knockers who have never ridden one. Some of them I suspect don’t even know how to ride a motorbike at all, least not intend to ever actually buy one. Unfortunately for me, they can read the internet and seem to have a lot of time to research things and use this to piss on other people.

The gist of it was, if you’ve never ridden a CPI SM250, or any other bike for that matter. If you have no bike in Taiwan and will never get one. If you like telling other people that what they have is shit. If you spend hours reading about bikes on the computer and never actually spend any time riding one… SHUT UP!

The CPI is the best bike you can get in Taiwan for the money. If there was something better, I would have bought it. I’m not an idiot, I don’t have money to waste on shit. I do however, want a motorcycle now to use for riding. I’m more into riding than talking, and if you are too, the CPI SM250 is a bloody good bike to buy.

It’s a lot better than no bike at all. Is that what you’ve got?

God-like? Thanks for the kudos. :wink: For the record, what I objected to was the astronomical number of uses of the word ‘fuck’ in one off-the-hook, angry rant… not the opinion you were voicing. I respect your opinions and have no intention of censoring the message, just the personal attacks and unnecessary bad language. I do not intend however to spend the time to go through your flip diatribe and edit it word by word. Thanks for taking the time to rewrite it in a more coherent way and with less invective.

Not sure if that’s aimed at me. Just in case, here’s a photo of me and my missus on my current bike to dispel any notions you might have as to whether I own / ride a motorcycle or not. I might add I had my first bike some thirty-odd years ago and in the interim have ridden, owned, restored, modified and built from scratch more bikes than I can even remember.

I don’t own a CPI250, haven’t ridden one and don’t intend to buy one in the near future. The posters you mention who have commented on the build quality based on other owners’ anecdotal evidence have not to my recollection tried to misrepresent the product or pass off their comments as being based on first-hand experience. Where I have commented directly on the CPI quality is on the front wheel bearings, which I have seen myself at a dealer, and as a qualified engineer I think I can safely describe that hub as a bad design.

I do think it’s interesting that so many people have questioned the quality and reliability of the CPI. That doesn’t necessarily make me jump to the conclusion that there is cabal of haters who are hell-bent on destroying it’s reputation. Let me put it this way… if someone were to point out that there were a few stories about Triumphs like mine locking up their transmissions at high speed I’d take it as a warning intended to save my life, rather than an attack on my purchasing decisions, choices or intelligence. A rash of opinions like that would make me wonder if all the smoke doesn’t perhaps indicate there is a fire somewhere, rather than arouse suspicion of a negative publicity campaign.
By way of comparison, some have suggested that CPI attracts so much flak because it’s a small brand. Well, Hartford, the subject of this thread, is also a small brand, but I have yet to see anyone question the product here despite much wider ownership. That doesn’t necessarily lead me to believe it’s a better product, but it is interesting nonetheless. Perhaps Hartford owners have lower expectations from their purchases. Perhaps they are less interested in pointing out their shortcomings to others. I just don’t know. :ponder:

Meanwhile, I’m very happy that you are so pleased with your CPI purchase and hope it continues that way! If you feel the product is being panned unfairly, by all means point it out. I just ask you to have a bit more patience in doing so, and keep a civil tone. I’m not about to censor any and all criticism of the CPI on your behalf, if that’s what you were hoping for.

Nice pic. Not sure I’d want to let my missus lean that bike that far while I’m the passenger, though. :wink:

To my knowledge, the Hartford is far more reliable than the CPI. Mind you, my knowledge of these bikes isn’t something to write home about.

As for getting the front wheel off the ground with the CPI, no doubt a half-skilled rider could flip that thing on it’s back with ease… But why bother is a good question.

marboulette

I visited the local Hartford dealer (we have only one) here in Taitung yesterday. I’ve been curious about their bikes for awhile and wanted to see what they have to offer. The missus is kind of interested in their “mini125” model, which is popular with women.

But here’s the thing: the VR models (which is what this post was originally about) are no longer being made. At least, that’s what the dealer told me. I was kind of disappointed, because a street-legal off-road bike appeals to me.

Aside from the mini125 (which sells like hotcakes, to judge from what I’m seeing around town), the only other models the dealer carries are HD-150S and HD-200S. He told me those are available with either the “rotating” 5-speed manual transmission for the international (1-N-2-3-4-5) standard shift pattern, the latter being slightly more expensive. I took the HD-150S for a test ride - quite nice.

Anyway, if it’s a new street-legal dirt bike you’re looking for, I don’t think they’re available in Taiwan anymore. I could be wrong about that (someone correct me if I don’t have the facts right).

best regards,
DB

The VR is still listed on the Hartford website (not that that necessarily means anything) but it maybe worth contacting them personally.

http://www.hartford-motors.com.tw/english/products.php?func=detail&sid=2&id=20

The company does respond to English e-mails, so you may a definitive answer from them.

I had a wee stramash with a Hartford 200cc dirt bike last night out from Bitan to Pinglin. Had to wait nearly 2 cans of Kirin for him to show up at the 7-11, so yeah, the SM250 is a good bit more nimble and quick.

[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]I visited the local Hartford dealer (we have only one) here in Taidong yesterday. I’ve been curious about their bikes for awhile and wanted to see what they have to offer. The missus is kind of interested in their “mini125” model, which is popular with women.

But here’s the thing: the VR models (which is what this post was originally about) are no longer being made. At least, that’s what the dealer told me. I was kind of disappointed, because a street-legal off-road bike appeals to me.

Aside from the mini125 (which sells like hotcakes, to judge from what I’m seeing around town), the only other models the dealer carries are HD-150S and HD-200S. He told me those are available with either the “rotating” 5-speed manual transmission for the international (1-N-2-3-4-5) standard shift pattern, the latter being slightly more expensive. I took the HD-150S for a test ride - quite nice.

Anyway, if it’s a new street-legal dirt bike you’re looking for, I don’t think they’re available in Taiwan anymore. I could be wrong about that (someone correct me if I don’t have the facts right).

best regards,
DB[/quote]

Predictable (and predicted). If it isn’t true now it seems very likely it will be in the near future. Though foreigners liked them they have obviously sold very few VR’s, due to a price premium over the other machines, and the locals being generally too shortarsed. CPI competition would be the final nail in the coffin. A pity.