I have never ridden a CPI product but I have seen my mechanic working on a CPI (albeit not the SM250) and asked him if they were any good. He told me they were overpriced crap.
According to the US website for CPI all of their engines are produced in mainland China. That in itself gives me pause for thought.
“Made in Taiwan” does not have the same stigmas attached for a reason…
Wow, this is the least acrimonious “CPI thread” yet. I wish the old “group buy” mega-thread could have been as civil. Me, I’m waiting for the EFI CPI.
[quote=“StuartCa”]The VR is still listed on the Hartford website (not that that necessarily means anything) but it maybe worth contacting them personally.
http://www.hartford-motors.com.tw/english/products.php?func=detail&sid=2&id=20
The company does respond to English e-mails, so you may a definitive answer from them.[/quote]
Thanks for the link. The VR bikes are also in the printed catalog which the Hartford dealer showed me, but he said that now they are for export only. I think that’s also true of the “Magic 125” model, which is on the web site but I’ve never seen one in Taiwan. I’ve noticed that the web sites for SYM and KYMCO also show several bikes which you cannot buy in Taiwan (and they are only listed on the English web pages, not on the Chinese ones).
The Hartford dealer said that the reason why they were no longer selling the VR models in Taiwan is because the new law that went into effect in 2009 specifies that all motorbikes must have fuel injection. And since the VR bikes sell so poorly in Taiwan, it isn’t worth the cost for Hartford to develop a fuel-injection system just for this tiny market. So it’s a carburetor-only model, for export to countries where fuel-injection isn’t required. At least, that’s the story I got.
I can’t say that I’ve ever seen a Hartford branded bike in the USA, or any other Taiwanese bike. But I was in Vietnam a few years ago and actually rented a Taiwanese motorbike which was a brand I’d never heard of. It could have been a Hartford, KYMCO or SYM being marketed under another name.
best regards,
DB
The point I’m repeatedly trying to make is that the CPI is crap when compared to just about every Japanese or European bike but you can’t get those bikes in this country for a reasonable price, if at all.
If I lived in another country again, I would absolutely not buy a CPI. It cost me the same as I sold my 5 year old ZX6R for in the UK and it’s nowhere near as good. Can I get a 5 year old ZX6R in Taiwan for $110,000? No. Would I really want one, given the quality of the roads and driving here? YES! But I can’t, that’s my point!
I haven’t got $480,000 to spend. I had $110,000 and the CPI is the only choice in my opinion.
The Hartfords look good, but when you park a CPI and a 150s together as I do every day, the CPI is just miles better everywhere (except arguably looks).
In Taiwan, it is the best thing you can get for the money. That’s it. I don’t think it’s difficult to make a beater with 12hp reliable. That kind of bike (Hartford) is for students who want to cruise in style. The CPI attracts enthusiasts who thrash their bike. I’ve seen tons of them in my dealer that have obviously been hammered into the ground. I’ve never seen a Hartford ridden hard, I doubt they are any better built but they don’t get tested.
In Taiwan, the CPI the best thing you can get for the money.
PS. Doing wheelies is cool, it looks cool and that’s why people want to learn how to do them! Anyone who says doing wheelies isn’t cool is jealous because they wish they could do them but they can’t! Marboulette you’re a good bloke, I’m sure you know that already!
As for my colourful language, I call them how I see them G!
We’re all big boys, fuck’s only a word.
But I’m not 17! Doing wheelies is not cool. I can do wheelies – I’ve been riding bikes for more than 35 years.
By the way, the SM250s sold here are made in Taichung, not China, as far as I know, although I could be wrong. Don’t know about the CPI scooters.
Mine has 10k on the clock, nearly. Runs like clockwork now that the early problems have been sorted out. Sure, I’ve heard the “basket of parts” guff before, but I tend to know a SHITLOAD more about bikes than any of the people making the claims, so it doesn’t bother me in the slightest – as I said, I have decades of bike buying and riding experience, from vintage Brit machines through bigbore Italians of the 1980s through modern Japanese bikes – and trust me, I know FAR, FAR more than these local Johnny-come-latelys in their coloured armour and their shiny new litre rice rockets (assuming they haven’t pretzeled them yet, that is). 
I know what my CPI is and I also know what it isn’t. I’m happy with it so far, and when and if I’m not, well then, I’ll just sell it and get something else. They’re ONLY FUCKING MOTORBIKES, fer Chrissakes!
My father’s been riding bikes for almost 50 years and the only wheelies he can do are accidental ones when he lets the clutch out too fast at the same time as my mother leans back. He also says he can do wheelies but that they are not cool!
Whatever anyone says, they and everyone else in the world knows wheelies are cool. You know it too Sandman. Saying wheelies aren’t cool is like saying politicians aren’t cunts - simply not true!
DB -
Kymco is sold in the USA. he Venox has a small but loyal following and is doing so-so in its class. For what its worth, I think it is a slightly improved model than what is sold on Taiwan. Its been sold there for about 3 years now…maybe a year longer.
[quote]Whatever anyone says, they and everyone else in the world knows wheelies are cool. You know it too Sandman. Saying wheelies aren’t cool is like saying politicians aren’t cunts - simply not true!
[/quote]
OK, OK, they’re cool – IF, and only IF, you’re doing them one-handed while sparking up a Camberwell Carrot with the other. Otherwise, sorry, but they’re no more cool than having a 1980s John Travolta poster on your bedroom wall. You’ll figure it out eventually. Hopefully.
So its popular with “real bikers”?
As an enthusiast for this marque (in Taiwan) you make a far stronger case for NOT buying one (used) than do any of its detractors.
I just briefly looked at a 2008 model Hartford VR150-Z (I think) at a local shop and he’s asking $50,000. If the thing checks out OK, is this a fair price? What are your opinions on the bike itself? I’m 5’9", and usually have one of my tall, teenage daughters behind me.
Is it a brand new one just not been sold yet or second hand?
Oh, forgot to mention it’s used, but looks great. I haven’t started it or ridden it or anything. Just a quick look.
I know this is an old thread and somewhat off topic, but has anyone heard any information about hartford’s 400cc model ( supposedly ) coming out later this year?
twzh.net/viewthread.php?tid=15
( The grey bike in the 3rd picture )
Just thought I’d throw in my two cents for anybody else that’s reading this thread while picturing themselves atop a Hartford VR.
I’ve been riding a VR 150 (2004) for the last 8 months or so as a daily rider. It’s treated me real well.
It’s cheap to repair: The bike survived two car attacks and a wipeout with minimal repair costs (less than $5000 to fix the forks, replace the plastic, etc. in the worst of the accidents).
It’s not a gas guzzler: I get about 170-185km out of a tank. Costs ~$220 to refill. I think I’m usually putting about 7L in it?
It’s reliable. It starts quickly every time (with a little choke control in the winter). I’ve never had any mechanical issue with it; any stops to the shop have been for cosmetic, maintenance, or adjustment reasons.
It looks a helluva lot better than a scoot, and (in my opinion) it’s a little sleeker and nicer-looking than the ubiquitous CPI 250.
It’s pretty gutless if you put it up against any higher-priced bike, but I don’t generally find myself wanting more power on my usual cross-Taipei commute.
It’s got a very comfortable riding position. I’m 6’1" so it fits me well with the regular suspension (some of the VRs are jacked up another inch or two with the alternate suspension. They’re too tall for even someone like me to ride comfortably in busy traffic). You might consider having the seat cushion redone because it’s not super cushy and a long (2hrs+) ride might leave you a bit sore.
Anyway, as far as I can figure, at a standard price of $40,000-55,000 for a second-hand bike it’s a good bargain. The 200 CC model is a bit pricier (~$55,000-70,000 used), and much harder to come by, but it’s probably also worth your while.
There are definitely a lot of nicer bikes out there, but you’re looking at paying at least $100,000 for most of them, if not closer to $200,000.
One other thing to mention is the 150 has both street and dirt tire options, and the front fender can be swapped accordingly as well if you want one that hugs (better when it’s raining, believe me), or the higher one (better looks).
i concur with pretty much what mistamike said.
my friend just started selling hartford middle last year near the nontou area. his area is different compared to city. longer distance and less traffic lights. since people are tight for money there and hartford cost more then a scooter and same speed or slower then a scooter people just prefer a scooter so hartford sales pretty much suck there.
in taichung it has been picking up recently. i would say mainly due to fashion/fad. it’s different compared to scooter and people fix it up by jacking the rear suspension and even run some monkey bars on it lol.
in the end most i hear is people saying they like it for the ride especially if ur tall. they get to shift gears like a big bike so thats different compared to scooters.
BTW FYI: some shops don’t even know this :loco: . make sure u use a motor oil that has the JASO MA specification. if u don’t u can end up with a slipping and worn out clutch. i had people tell me there hartford is not fast and when they drain the motor oil there is metallic flakes in it lol . once they changed to the CORRECT oil wow what a difference.