Harvard, Tufts, UVM Scientists Create Living Robots from Frogs

Organisms tend to evolve similar mechanisms for survival independently. The range is quite limited.

Other examples of intelligence being created from non-intelligence.

I don’t think there are any. I think there’s natural intelligence, which wasn’t created by intelligence, and artificial intelligence, which was.

What other examples of intelligence are there?

It’s an iteration of a process of change, small changes to the genetic code.

A lot of Darwin’s ideas aren’t really relevant anymore or have been superseded or discredited. That’s how it goes. But, no, I’m not surprised by it. I haven’t argued here that there isn’t, to be clear. I’m just taking issue with @OysterOmelet’s assertion that “the evidence is very strong” for it.

1 Like

I misread. Sorry.

Yeah, isn’t there, like, a return to Lamarckism, or something?

Back in the '70s or '80s, I got into a dispute with my dad, who had ideas that were essentially Lamarck-ish (but I don’t think he knew who Lamarck was–I think he came up with his ideas independently). I was on the opposing side, natural selection. Finally my dad said something like, “Some day, when your mind has matured, and you’ve acquired enough knowledge, you’ll see that I’m right.” At the time, I thought, how typically arrogant of him.

Decades later, @urodacus posted this (and life sciences are his bag), in May of 2011:

I don’t know if my mind has matured, and I doubt I have much new knowledge, but I hereby admit that my dad was right. :slight_smile:

One last note: If recall correctly, I think some sort of “Why is there matter?” idea crossed my mind a few years back. But talk about an immovable object! And kind of scary, too. So I gave up.

1 Like

I’ve heard something about that. Does it have to do with epigenetics maybe? I haven’t been following this stuff as closely lately as I used to.

1 Like

Yes, @urodacus mentioned that, and he also mentioned this person:

So you were, maybe, a life sciences major?

1 Like

Ha! No, an economics major :slight_smile: But I spent a lot of time in origins-type conversations for a few years. Got a little tired of it, and other things are happening now

1 Like

Well, consider it involves all animals, plants, fungi, protists, and monera, your definition of ‘limited’ may vary.

Never mind that. Just ask yourself exactly what intelligence they’re imitating with evolutionary algorithms, a form of AI.

I’d prefer if you answer - it literally follows on from something you asked me. So if you can’t answer your own question, it’d be useful to know before continuing.

Why? The answer is obvious and pretty much in the name. There’s nothing for me to ask myself here, but I don’t think it means what you think it means…

I can’t think of other types of intelligence besides natural and artificial either. Not sure what it has to do with my question, but if it’ll help you answer, great.

Great! What is it?

To my thinking the why is missing the point which is to experience what is, and the fact that we seem to evolving physically and socially in the direction of lesser pain and more pleasure supplies the why… because life is that way.

But goddamn, you two. Nice long volley!

1 Like

Dolphins have bigger brains, even proportional to their bodies than our three closest relatives (chimps, gorillas, and orangutans).

Conway-Morris goes on to explain that the ice age produced bigger brains, in sea mammals just as extreme aridity did it in hominids in Africa.

Intelligence, it must be pointed out, is not an all-or-nothing phenomenon. Many animals have evolved intelligence to different degrees. Self reflection, consciousness, social structure (including altruism, tribality, war, and so on), communication, planning, etc., have been seen time and time again in mammals, birds, cephalopods, and even, some say, in some insects (hymenoptera).

it’s a matter of degree, but many animals come close to human levels. But one thing that is strongly evolved in humans is their culture. Once cultures develop past some significant threshold level, then they become the mechanism and the drivers of the evolution of some kind of extra-corporeal intelligence.