They acted as an introduction service on behalf of Kojen. Prentice actually denied my application and Ben (Footprints) was near apoplectic about it. It turned out Prentice had this old posting I’d put at Dave’s Cafe…I was trying to explore what the job market for curriculum development, teacher training positions, blah blah, resume experimentation stuff and he wasn’t convinced I’d want an entry level teaching position in ‘da big K’…I wrote Prentice back saying he was mistaken and came and did my first year in said big yella school bux.
For the record…la la lalalaa…I don’t work there anymore.
Ben checked in on me a couple times during that year…he cost me nothing, went to bat for me against the odds, and I got the soft landing I wanted with a year at Kojen. I became a much better teacher and am now happily ensconced in fair Zhong Ho…living the life of Ping…
Ben asked me to give them a referral and I refused as I now think that anyone thinking of coming here should just do that…come here…look around…and their exclusivity with K precluded any referral…I got none from K…nary a thanks…a fine ‘how do ya do’… but an equally expensive (SARS-Vanouver fiasco of 04/03) ‘don’t let the door hit ya in the ass on yer way out’ attitude…
Oooops, I digress…this is about Footprints…nice guys…wish them well…but you’ll do much, much better than Kojen if you just get on that plane. Famous Chinese Proverb sez ‘Do Nothing But Do’
[quote]I might have sounded a little mean, but agents are not needed at all and my heart aches for the large numbers of people going through agents.
[/quote]
What a load of shite. So if you’ve got two jobs on the offer, one an agent is offering you, and one you’ve hunted yourself, but the agent’s offer pays more and looks better, which one would you take?
Just treat an agent the same as a boss. Check out their offer, check out their rep and check out their contract. Decide how much you can trust them, and make a choice.
I don’t know if it’s been said yet, but when you go through Footprints, you do not have to pay anything - Kojen pays them. And you don’t sign any contracts until you arrive in Taiwan.
I think the real question here is not whether Footprints is a good agency, but whether Kojen is a good school.
I am going through Footprints, and will be setting foot in Taiwan in September to teach for Kojen. I’ve heard good things and bad things about Kojen, but I’ve also heard good and bad about EVERY other school.
I did my research first - talked to other Kojen teachers, looked at other schools. I like going through Footprints. If I get screwed by Kojen, at least I have Footprints on my side to help out. They’ve been very good about working with Kojen to place me where I want to be, and I’m fairly certain they will be “checking in” periodically while I’m in Taiwan to make sure things are going well.
Bottom line - Footprints are good people. Kojen, on the other hand…? I guess I won’t really know until I’m there!
Their site is a little vague about insurance information. One page says that National Health insurance depends on location and another page says that it is included. I sent them an email suggesting that they get thier facts straight as NO INSURANCE IS ILLEGAL. You must be given health insurance.
Funny enough they didn’t reply to my e-mail, strange that.
Kojen pays them - let me ask you this, is there a trial period of say 3 to 4 months when your salary is lower (while you are learning to be a good teacher) and then after this breaking in period you get a salary increase? If so, you are paying footprints too. There are many an agent out there using this angle to tell teachers that you don’t pay them, but the truth is that you are, it’s a well kept secret. Ask around, does footprints do this? I don’t know, but if I were using them I’d ask around.
If you’re using an agent why not just ask them what they’re cut is and get it all out in the open. If they’re straight up and down they’ll tell you roughly how it works for them (though I’m sure not the actual amount). My guess is that an agent would get around NT$20,000 per bod recruited. ELSI (Kojen’s forerunner) did have a training pay system for the first while whether you were a local hire or not. It was around NT$50 below the starting rate and you will all laugh your grollies off when I tell you I started on NT$420 an hour there in 1992. But it was up to NT$500 within 3 months, which was poor even then. However, the teacher training and support was good. I would not say Kojen is like ELSI was, because I don’t know.
If the agent’s contract starts you on less than NT$550 an hour then you have to look at whether the other benefits are worth it. Two of my co-workers at the moment have been at the same school for over four years, were recruited overseas, and merely give a kind of Gallic shrug when asked if they wouldn’t rather have battled it out on their own. Sure the “free accommodation” amounted to nothing, sure they had to start teaching as soon as their arses touched the ground here, but they did it and have made a tidy sum.
Try and get at least NT$550 an hour and at least NT$10,000 for your plane fare. Forget about airport transfers and accommodation, see how much loot you can get out of them.
I remember Prentice, “Sorry you will have to work at 2 schools. You will have to work 6 days a week. You will be paid 5??/hour, you will get teacher training at 200/hour” This was even though I was in Taiwan for 6 months already…yeah right!
Chain schools from what I can tell suck. No one has anything nice to say about HESS, Frobel, Kojen etc. Or am I missing something?
So true! There was an old thread in this forum, I believe, all about Kojen. Everyone had a different opinion (many who hadn’t ever worked for Kojen). I found that emailing teachers who are working for Kojen at the present was the best thing I could do to understand the school better (I don’t know if Kojen will give out email addresses, but Footprints does - another point for Footprints?).
[quote]Their site is a little vague about insurance information. One page says that National Health insurance depends on location and another page says that it is included. I sent them an email suggesting that they get thier facts straight as NO INSURANCE IS ILLEGAL. You must be given health insurance.
[/quote]
I think their site is vague also, but you have to realize they are not just dealing with Taiwan (Kojen), but other schools in other countries as well. In other countries, it may be perfectly legal to not offer health insurance (right?).
They say raises are determined after about 7 months, 13 months, 2 years, etc. Starting hourly rate (in Taipei) is $560 for adult classes/ $570 for children’s classes. Is there anyone who can tell me if this is not typical starting pay for Kojen? If it’s not, then obviously Boss Hog is correct.
[quote=“pandagirl”]
I think the real question here is not whether Footprints is a good agency, but whether Kojen is a good school.[/quote]
I tend to agree with Pandagirl about this. Agents, be they recruitment or real estate, tend to get a real bashing. Of course there are some rogue outfits out there that should definitely be avoided, and I think that many of these have been clearly identified on this board. Agents can provide a valuable service, and the individual has the choice as to whether or not they use an agent
I agree with Brian, and I think chain schools get an exceptionally hard time because people come here on NT$550 or whatever and meet guys in pubs who are getting NT$700. I think you just have to go through a year of low pay and being led by the nose before you know what’s what. How else will you know whether Ragamuffin’s Harry Potter Bushiban on Bingbong Lu offerring NT$700 an hour is kosher ? I don’t know if I’d know and I’ve been here a while ? (I’d have to ask brian !)
Generally speaking, a big chain will not stiff you on the visa, health “insurance”, nor muck about with your pay. It’s like being a civil servant in a world of consultants - but you need that security when you first arrive, unless you’re minted.
I agree with hexuan. Those of us who’ve been in Taiwan awhile know what to look for in a job and what we consider acceptable pay, hours, materials, etc. If you are fresh of the plane, haven’t had any similar experience, and don’t have any personal connections, you might have the freedom to choose a school, but what are you basing your decision on? Plus, you may not have much time to be choosey if you’re living off limited savings.
But really, it’a matter of personal preference. If you’re willing to accept the more restrictive conditions of a chain school for the relative security, then go with a chain for your first job. If you find the conditions of chain schools unacceptable, then don’t work there. There are costs and risks either way.
This seems like one of those issues that really polarizes people. Either you think chains are alright (necessary evil, perhaps) and those who think they are evil incarnate. And there’s not much one can say to change the other’s mind. So these kinds of discussions are mostly for those who haven’t experienced it and are considering whether or not to work for a chain.
If you end up working for Kojen…I will end up saying, “I told u so!”. At least, the chances are equivalent to those of a short man of ever genetically assisting a xiaojie into TaiTai status, that I won’t be in, at least a position to say, “I told u so!”
I have tried to warn people since my first 4-5 weeks here. I have done many a dance with many an employer…I saw immediately, that Kojen’s flaws far outweighed their pros. But something inside me felt honour-bound to fulfil my contract…I did so and am now left with such distaste for Kojen that I spend the waning minutes before heading out to my great new job that I could have found by myself here, writing yet another warning to all those thinking of working at Kojen…I had the opportunity to warn other FOBs, all of whom decided to stick it out with K. All of whom are out of or getting out of their contracts.
I, and the collected voices here say to you…
Just fly over here. All you need to know is right here at forumosa.
They got me over here and, yes, I work for Kojen and I;m worried about my situation. What should I be worried about TELL ME. I’ve only been here two weeks. Thanks
I tried going through foodprints recruiting but as soon as they realized that I was chinese (born and raised in Canada) they rejected me. They told me that it would be too difficult for them to find a job for me and that I should just look for one myself. But they were happy to screen school for me if need be. I stopped contacting them after this and felt very discriminated by them.
Putting two and two together from the last couple of posts, it seems that ELSI has an aversion to ABC’s. I know that almost all schools do, but does anyone know if there are any ABC’s working at ELSI or is there a strict rule against employing them?
AD’s pet. He’s been there for 3+yrs. He is Canadian, gets all the hours he wants and is a very cool guy and an exceptional teacher. He is also somehow related to the AD.
Inside info has it (but keep this to yourself) she is the daughter of the AD’s b/f (uggghhhh). She is treated like a dog and her status is that of Chinese teacher, even though she has a Master’s degree and will be a dentist some time next year. She too is Canadian.
Another sweet Canadian gal, subs for school ?, but was looked down the nose upon there so she stopped subbing for them. She, as far as I know, still works for Kojen.
4) Philipinno-born Chinese, but for all intents and purposes, is an Aussie. She held the prestigious position of Foreign Teacher, but got few hours. She is back in Perth now.
Footprints got me an interview and did alot of follow-up (almost nauseatingly so, as I was pretty sick of Kojen about 2 weeks in) I am surprised to hear this about the discrimination. I think Kojen is a lot of things, but I would never have accused them of playing that game. Well, not as blatantly as others do. I have softened my stance on Kojen in recent months as I have another target more worthy of my vitriole (coughcoughWSIcoughspew). I do give fair warning, the same one you might hear on any golf course, stay away from that particular school, forewarned is forearmed.
And lots has been written about Kojen in general treating lots of white-faces like lots of dirt too. Better to just avoid them altogether.
I have dealt with Footprints and would definitely recommend them to first timers who need guidance. These guys are hardworking, former English teachers who work out of their small studio home. Footprints mostly deal with the Korean teaching market and the only contact they have with Taiwan (for the moment) is Kojen and therein lies the problem.
Mini, don’t feel discriminated by Footprints. They were only warning you so that what happened to me doesn’t happen to you. The Kojen recruiter that interviewed me here was an asshole and told me that Kojen is a business and a white face sells. The only job I could get with them is out in the countryside even though I’ve had 3 years prior EFL teaching experience and can speak Mandarin and English fluently. I said no and walked out. There were a few more unfortunate encounters with Kojen after that which I relayed to Footprints so they can be aware of their business dealings. So, I give Footprints a thumbs up but Kojen a finger up their ***.
