I was looking through some maps which claimed to show the geographic limits of the different Chinese dynasties. Considering the period from the Qin Dynasty to the present, I found this listing –
秦Qin 221 - 206 BC
漢Han 206 BC - 220 AD
西漢West Han 206 BC - 23
東漢East Han 25 - 220
三國San Guo (Three Kingdoms) 220 - 280
魏Wei 220 - 265
蜀Shu 221 - 263
吳 Wu 222 - 280
西晉West Jin 265 - 316
東晉East Jin 317 - 420
十六國Sixteen Kingdoms 304 - 439
南北朝South and North Dynasties 六朝Six Dynasties 420 - 581
南朝South Dynasties
宋Song 420 - 479
齊Qi 479 - 502
梁Liang 502 - 557
陳Chen 557 - 589
北朝North Dynasties
北魏North Wei 386 - 534
東魏East Wei 534 - 550
北齊North Qi 550 - 577
西魏West Wei 535 - 557
北周North Zhou 557 - 581
隋Sui 581 - 618
唐Tang 618 - 907
五代十國Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms 907 - 979
五代Five Dynasties 907 - 960
後梁Later Liang 907 - 923
後唐Later Tang 923 - 936
後晉Later Jin 936 - 946
後漢Later Han 947 - 950
後周Later Zhou 951 - 960
十國 Ten Kingdoms 902 - 979
宋Song
北宋North Song 960 - 1127
南宋South Song 1127 - 1279
遼Liao 916 - 1125
西夏West Xia 1032 - 1227
金Jin 1115 - 1234
元Yuan 1260 - 1368
明Ming 1368 - 1644
. . . . however I don’t note that any of the maps include Taiwan as being part of the Chinese dynastic empire.
I seem to recall that the PRC officials are continually stating and re-affirming that Taiwan has always been a part of China, but based on my casual research, it doesn’t seem that Taiwan appears on any of the dynastic maps until the end of the Qing . . . . .
清 Qing 1644 - 1911
Can anyone provide some authoritative comment on this? Is there any chance that the PRC officials are confused about something so basic as Chinese history??
Instead of maps, wouldn’t the place to look be the dynastic histories and imperial annals? They list noteworthy events for each province under Chinese control. (Remember, prior to the 19th century Taiwan would be listed under Fujian, if it appears at all.)
My not-so-authoritative sense of the matter is that Taiwan doesn’t even enter Chinese (or whatever empire corresponds to what we now call “China”) consciousness until the late Ching, and then it’s always been kind of marginal. Chinese empires have always been land-based, usually not so interested in islands (except to keep people from running away to them).
Great point Richard, and I think I can guess where you are going with this.
I would recommend finding out if any “Taiwanese” research groups have written anything on this. Surely, they must have. However, if they haven’t it surely seems to be a worthwhile project. At least reference to a set of facts that should be more widely known.
I’m sure there are a few groups who would fund a paper/study that shows the results you are alluding to. I’d like to hear what you find out.
to 1624: Aborigines
1624-1661: Dutch
1661-1683: Pirates
1683-1895: Ching Dynasty
1895-1945: Japanese
1945-present: ROC
So according to that, Aborigines aside, Taiwan has been a part of China for longer than it’s been a part of anything or anyone else. Or maybe that website is oversimplified?
If I remember correctly, I think the Chinese were aware of Taiwan for centuries, but as daltongang said, there was no significant Han settlement 'til the late Ming dynasty.
I know you are being sarcastic twothink, but thats usually how islands are formed. Sometimes a massive undersea volcanic eruption or earthquake can suddenly thrust a plot of land out in the middle of the ocean.
Something of interest, from this years ITASA (Intercollegiate Taiwanese American Student Association) Midwest Conference there was a history workshop that spoke about these Chinese that left Fujian province to Taiwan. They were saying how anyone in Taiwan with ancestry that linked back earlier than the 1900’s (?) also has a little bit of aborigine blood in them because of strict immigration laws. The immigrations laws were that only men were allowed to immigrate to Taiwan… therefore to begin families, they had to “mix blood” with the Taiwanese aborigines.
[quote=“Joannie”]Something of interest, from this years ITASA (Intercollegiate Taiwanese American Student Association) Midwest Conference there was a history workshop that spoke about these Chinese that left Fujian province to Taiwan. They were saying how anyone in Taiwan with ancestry that linked back earlier than the 1900’s (?) also has a little bit of aborigine blood in them because of strict immigration laws. The immigrations laws were that only men were allowed to immigrate to Taiwan… therefore to begin families, they had to “mix blood” with the Taiwanese aborigines.
Hm… does anyone know more about this?[/quote]
My guess–just from looking at people’s faces–would be that on average there is more than a little bit.
So there you have it, from the official historians in the PRC … Taiwan has been formally part of China since 1885. That means it was part of China for a whopping great 10 years before it became part of Japan.
[quote=“daltongang”][quote=“Joannie”]Something of interest, from this years ITASA (Intercollegiate Taiwanese American Student Association) Midwest Conference there was a history workshop that spoke about these Chinese that left Fujian province to Taiwan. They were saying how anyone in Taiwan with ancestry that linked back earlier than the 1900’s (?) also has a little bit of aborigine blood in them because of strict immigration laws. The immigrations laws were that only men were allowed to immigrate to Taiwan… therefore to begin families, they had to “mix blood” with the Taiwanese aborigines.
Hm… does anyone know more about this?[/quote]
My guess–just from looking at people’s faces–would be that on average there is more than a little bit.[/quote]
Particularly down south. Sure are an awful lot of brown Taiwanese down in Tainan, Kaohsiung, and Pingtung, aren’t there? Anyway, to answer your question - yes, that’s been pretty conclusively proven, that nearly all “native Taiwanese” have a bit of aborigine DNA in them. More here:
[quote]Abstract: The Minnan and Hakka people groups, the so-called “Taiwanese”, are the descendants of early settlers from the southeast coast of China during the last few centuries. Genetically they showed affinities to southern Asian populations as determined by phylogenetic trees and correspondence analysis calculated from HLA allele frequencies. This corresponds historically with the fact that they are the descendants of the southeast coastal indigenous population (Yueh) of China and should therefore not be considered as descendants of “pure” northern Han Chinese. A33-B58-DRB103 (A33-Cw10-B58-DRB103-DQB1*02), the most common HLA haplotype among “Taiwanese”, with a haplotype frequency of 6.3%, has also been found to be the most common haplotype among Thai-Chinese and Singapore Chinese, two other populations also originating from the southeast coast of China. These observations suggest that this haplotype is the most well conserved ancient haplotype of the Yueh.
I also notice that the children of westerners and Chinese/Taiwanese are more and more common in Taiwan, and seem to me to constitute something of a new “master race” . . . . . . .
