First of all wish to say hello to this forum as I registered yesterday.
He is my story:
Recently I took a contact with one of Companies there in Taipei that is busy with electronic or maybe more specific: with embedded systems. They invite me for an interview for few days to Taipei. They offer accommodation for this period so it looks nice. I have nothing to loose. My question is about the hardest part of interview – money… How much you would ask annually being 3 years experienced embedded C programmer, ready for let’s say 2 years contract in Taipei? Should one ask also some further accommodation support???
The last foreigner (was an American) C++ programmer I spoke to was earning NT$60,000 a month. In Taiwan many companies would pay a bonus of around 2 months pay on top. I was surprised he was not earning more. I would have thought that you’d be going for at least double that - but standby for other posters to pitch in. (Not sure how many other programers there are here.)
I think it depends also (though perhaps it shouldn’t) where you come from. If you are North American or Western European, then they’d probably expect to pay more than if you’re from India, Eastern Europe etc.
Its a good sign they’ve paid some of your costs concerned with the interview. Think carefully about what other benefits you want. They might pay for accommodation - but I’d suggest you try and get a month or two off them and then find and pay for a place yourself - but with their help with the search. Your tastes are likely to be different. But what about holiday? Some TW companies will just give 7 to 10 days, and you might have to wait for a year to qualify. They might arrange a “company tour” and expect you to participate - this comes out of your holiday leaving you with practically nothing. Generally modern IT companies are better.
When i worked here (I don’t anymore), I was flexible about most things, but insisted on 4 weeks paid holiday per year to be taken at a time of my choosing. (Choosing means I chose it - not I participate in a vote about where to go on the company tour.) This was essential to me because I was a long way from my family and it was important for me to get away from Taiwan from time to time. They agreed… But then once into the contract questioned whether I really should get paid for the holiday. (Its in the contract mate, look.) Then they closed the company for 3 days for the company tour which I didn’t go on. They gave me a form to say that I agreed the days could be deducted from my holiday. I wrote I was happy to work on those days and my contract said holiday was to be taken at a time of my choosing. At the end of the month I got a note with my payslip saying that as per the contract they hadn’t deducted any holiday entitlement… but instead they’d deducted 3 days pay. The point of this tale is that things can often seem good… but a “done deal” is often not quite like that in Taiwan… so you have to be careful. Also you have to know when to draw the line in the sand and have the confrontation, and when to let something go. (I let the 3 days go.)
Pushing for stuff like holidays might send the wrong signal during an interview. So I’d only mention it if asked, or if you get down to the detail - and then frame it carefully.
I think you might be expected to sign a 3 year contract rather than 2 - I seem to remember that that was a requirement for the type of permit I got as a “skilled type”. But you can still have cancellation clauses. (3 months either side was agreed in my case.)
The question is will you be working on local or expat terms. If it’s the former you are probably best advised to stay where you are, if it’s the latter you should negotiate the following (some may also apply to a local contract):
Company responsible for aquiring and paying necessary work permit and visa
Entitlement to personal tax consultancy, paid by the company
Shipping allowance (for personal belongings) to and from the country, e.g. 2cubic meter air freight or 20 foot container by sea (the latter if you move with furniture)
Home trips (e.g. 2 per year) or a lump sum to cover for flight tickets
Holidays (typical are only 7 days after the first year for locals)
Health insurance coverage, including overseas business trips and holidays (in another country)
Pension (x% of income), may be paid directly into a fund or similar
Compensation for early contract termination by employer, e.g. x months salary or based on local laws and regulation
Termination clause for “personal reasons”
Notice period for early termination (applicable to both sides)
Entitlement to company car if required for your position
That’s interesting… They list no Taiwan office. So this office must be mostly R&D. It’s a US company so, they’ll have some of the Western feel to it unless their top management is totally local. Is it or do they have Western managers?
Expat positions for programmer types like you would be great, but I wouldn’t bank on it unless there’s special circumstances that give you that leverage to demand expat considerations.
I agree with one poster that 60K a month salary is low but that’s typical for IT jobs in Taiwan. OTOH, you only have 3 years of this experience so in my book, you’re a junior programmer and 60K in Taiwan is a very nice sum.
I agree with london-boy’s points. Be sure with what you must have and what is nice to have. Rascal’s list is pretty comprehensive in terms of what you can ask for (not what you’ll get) during negotiations.
See if you can talk with the US head office about your candidacy and get hired there, transferred via expat to Taiwan
Well, I made sure I got 7 days paid extra holiday, although my line manager is Australian, so I guess that helped
It’s not easy to negotiate with companies here, but if you’re in demand it might help.
[quote=“Yellow Cartman”]That’s interesting… They list no Taiwan office. So this office must be mostly R&D. It’s a US company so, they’ll have some of the Western feel to it unless their top management is totally local. Is it or do they have Western managers?
Expat positions for programmer types like you would be great, but I wouldn’t bank on it unless there’s special circumstances that give you that leverage to demand expat considerations.
I agree with one poster that 60K a month salary is low but that’s typical for IT jobs in Taiwan. OTOH, you only have 3 years of this experience so in my book, you’re a junior programmer and 60K in Taiwan is a very nice sum.
I agree with london-boy’s points. Be sure with what you must have and what is nice to have. Rascal’s list is pretty comprehensive in terms of what you can ask for (not what you’ll get) during negotiations.
See if you can talk with the US head office about your candidacy and get hired there, transferred via expat to Taiwan [/quote]
Moxa was founded in the USA by a bunch of Taiwanese guys who were classmates. The company is essentially run by a Taiwanese management team. Is the working culture local? Is it a multinational?Difficult to comment unless one works in there.
I hope everything is well for you marco_m for your job offer in tw. I am also working in the tech sector currently in Malaysia for the past 10 years in the banking industry.
Recently, i have the thought of relocating back to taiwan with my spouse whom is taiwanese as well. I am not sure whether it is a good choice but i am willing to take risks and explore. I am not too sure about the banking and IT scene in taiwan but are there anyone there who could give me a lead. tks
[quote=“jameswong26”]I hope everything is well for you marco_m for your job offer in tw. I am also working in the tech sector currently in Malaysia for the past 10 years in the banking industry.
Recently, i have the thought of relocating back to Taiwan with my spouse whom is Taiwanese as well. I am not sure whether it is a good choice but i am willing to take risks and explore. I am not too sure about the banking and IT scene in taiwan but are there anyone there who could give me a lead. tks
cheers[/quote]
Banking scene, depends on what it is that you do. I have a lead for you with HSBC if you’ve got the right project management, management and technical skills. HSBC Taiwan is ramping up their on-line business and need strong experienced people.
As for IT, you need to break it down into IT services or IT hardware/manuf. Very different beasts. IT services is dominated by locals. Multinationals have a tough go at this and I’m not sure if any really make money at all (i.e. EDS, HP, IBM). I believe Dell Taiwan is starting to get into Enterprise Business services if you’re interested in going the sales route.
If you’re looking from the customer side, I think your international experience will be greatly wasted on the local firms here who tend to grossly underpay their IT tech staff. OTOH, most of the IT Technical services tend to be very low level so I’d say their pay is somewhat aligned to their skillsets. For banking, the biggest move here is Standard Charter taking over Hsinchu bank. There’s a lot of need there for the right skills/experience. I know of an international FMCG company that’s going to be looking for a mid-sr level Business IT person soon but sounds like you may be too experienced for the role.
Thanks Yellow Cartman for the invaluable information rendered.
May I make a suggestion to have a separate threat for all of us (expat) whom are interested to work in the IT industry at Taiwan about all our encounters such as job search journey, industry trends, visa issues, employers, and even frustrations etc etc. This will allow us to have some indepth discussions and something which I found this forum to be so powerful.
I will be heading to Taiwan for my CNY break commencing mid febuary till early march and will embark on my journey for job search there. I hope to share my experiences while I am there with you guys out there.
I work in IT in Taipei for 3 years now (C++ programmer w 7 years experience). I get 65000 per month which is considered a ‘good’ to ‘quite good’ salary.
If I were you, I wouldn’t demand too much. They don’t like that. It is not easy to find jobs here! It’s a bit more difficult for foreigners. Mind also… the working times are longer. The jobs with sane hours are really more hard to find!!
And after being here 3 years… I must say the level of IT disappoints in Taiwan. From others I heard it’s the same situation everywhere. Sloppy coding, no procedures, just punching in the code. Make the hours. It’s also my impression that engineers are perceived as ‘lower’ in IT companies; for the way they work that view might be right. (Of course Taiwanese engineers will deny this; I’ve worked 5 years in Europe in software so I can know the difference!!).
Last point. IF you are looking for a nice stay in Asia, work in IT is definitely a good choice if you have the expertise. For now, I can advise people to try VIETNAM. Yes that’s right… Vietnam. The IT business is starting to boom there, and their approach is more mature I’ve heard. Look on the web (try Google) (compare that to Taiwan, try it). The IT in Vietnam is much more coordinated by, and funded by, American companies who start to do real application development there. Not low level drivers or the high pressure cooking style of Taiwan “software” companies.