Japanese drivers a notorious for shifting into higher gears way too early, like 5th gear at 50km/h…
…but they are polite, the Nipponese…
[quote=“matchgrade”]What about when taxi drivers put their cars in neutral at a stop? Does that save gas?[/quote]I always do that, it gives me a chance to rest my foot. And stops my foot from slipping off the clutch and me ramming the car in front.
According to the TUV Rheinland the normal lights on car need 150-200W. This power has to be generated (where else should it come from) and translates into 0.1-0.2 liter/100km.
Scaled to the 46 mio cars in Germany, it would mean:
- around 30 liters per year and car additional average
- 1.4 billion EUR additional costs for benzin
- 2.8 mio tons more CO2
Under discussion is the introduction of dedicated LED lights for the day with reduces energy consumption. Some people argue, that the light for cars reduce the safety of bicycles, motorbikes or pedestrians, which don’t have a light (or have it already switched on for safety reasons such as motorbikes or ambulances). Statistically it seems to be very difficult to prove the lights during daylight increase safety.
Btw, the air condition increases fuel consumption by 0.5 to 0.8 liter/100km
Interesting topic, I always love to discuss that here too.
First off al, of course the lights need energy and this has to be produced or actually “transformed” from somewhere. The only (at least in the common cars) energy source for the car is the fuel and this means the lights switched on will increase the fuel consumption. So far so good.
On the other side are this facts to consider:
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The lights of a car will need about 200W of electric power, this needs to be transformed from fosil energy (fuel) through the burning process changing it into “turning power” which runs the generator. Every transformation process and transportation step wastes energy in some way, so let’s say the efficency of this process is about 20% which means you have to produce about 1000W for that.
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Locals tend to have engines with 1,8L upwards or even this 3L V6 ones. Even the small ones have around 80 kw engines (about 120 hp), the V6 more likely about 125 kw (200 hp). So the additional consumption (the 1kw from above) would be around 1% of that than. That would be around 0,1l per 100km additionally.
On the other side, the locals do the following things:
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They prefer getting automatic cars, where the automatic gear wastes about 15 kw of the power which is about 15 times the amount of the lights all the time and you can’t even switch it off on a very bright day. That would be about 1,5 l per 100 km.
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The way how you drive a car can save you up to 20% of the fuel consumption if you know what you are doing (when I look on the streets everyday I am almost 100% sure they know what they do here, right). That could be up to 2l per 100 km.
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Wrong mantaniance or things like wrong pressure in the tires can increase the fuel consumption also by up to 1l per 100 km.
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Most times here I see people parking there cars, waiting for something or getting something in the shop with running engine and a/c on. With the “high” efficency of the “system car” and power which needs to be produced I guess this would cost you also definatly more than the 0,1l of fuel which you can run you lights for another 100km.
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If you are worried about you lights and their power consumption you should also start to think about your car audio system. Guess it need about the same amount of power, sometimes even much more and it adds for sure much less to your safty and the safty of others.
Oh, and don’t forget things like VCD/DVD, several LCD panels and so on.
So considering all this points (and I guess there are even more which I just didn’t think off now) I would say no, switching in the lights will have no fuel saving effects which you will realise in dayly life. Therefore you should better start with other things first.
This has got to be the most pedantic discussion ever undertaken! Fantastic!
I have always been interested to know why Taiwanese drivers don’t remove their wing mirrors. The extra drag created by them is surely wasting petrol. It’s not like they use them.
I was sitting in a V6 Camry the other day and the driver put the car into neutral at the lights (thus putting extra stress on the CV joints) and turned the headlights off. I just wanted to say “diesel!” - but thought better of it.
Anyway, in view of this discussion, I have retracted the aerial on my Ferrari to conserve fuel. Cheers.
Well, I had to get the car tested the other week and they made me remove my roofrack in order to pass. Fuck me! There was a noticeable difference in fuel consumption just from a run to Taichung and back. I was amazed. I reckon I must have saved at least – AT LEAST – NT$15 on that trip alone. That’s equivalent to nearly half a tin of Taiwan beer!
Of course, the cost of filling my tank has increased since a year or two ago from under NT$700 to over NT$1200, so it’s all a bit moot, really.
Plus, keeping your fullbeams on at all times is nice and irritating for the plebians I’m forced to share the road with. Where can I get those extrsa bright blue lights that point in the wrong direction? They’re really suave.
OK, I mean automatic transmission taxis.
edit…nevermind, I Googled it: cartalk.com/content/columns/ … er/04.html
Sandman wrote [quote] I reckon I must have saved at least – AT LEAST – NT$15 on that trip alone[/quote]
Well, just think how much you would save if you lightened the car load by cutting off your genitals and keeping them in the freezer.
My Ford Escort’s altenator went one summer day. That meant the motor was unable to recharge the battery. There was no noticable effect, and it only became apparent when the battery was completely drained and the car came lurching to a halt.
Be that as it may, a scientific study would make interesting reading.
Well, just think how much you would save if you lightened the car load by cutting off your genitals and keeping them in the freezer.[/quote]
Good idea. Have to be your freezer though. Mine’s reserved for my vodka.
Because this is interesting, useless as it may seem 
[/quote]Absolutely. I bet a lot of pub discussions have been had on this topic.
Nevertheless, the various bits of research that people have pointed to that show that the lights affect fuel consumption, and the lack of any links to research showing the contrary, would seem to take this out of the realm of speculation and into fact. I hope that at least some of the 21 people who voted “no” are reconsidering their opinions!
[quote=“sjcma”]Of course, the poll question was whether the headlights increase fuel consumption, not whether it wastes fuel. Because headlights during the day may serve a useful purpose, whether it is wasteful is up to the individual user.[/quote]Of course. I’m on the fence about using the lights in the daytime in cars, but it definitely improves safety for motorbikes.
What about the first law of thermodynamics ? How do you explain that then eh ?
And don’t forget that the the light bulb emits photons, haven’t you heard of radiation pressure :loco:
Well, just think how much you would save if you lightened the car load by cutting off your genitals and keeping them in the freezer.[/quote]
You’d have to make sure you let your balls cool off first, lest you burn out the fridge…
A scientific study was done by Germany’s Federal Highway Research Institute (Bundesanstalt für Straßenwesen - BASt) which reported a 3% increase in gas consumption due to the use of dipped headlights (low beam headlights). According to the institute’s own website:
[i]The Federal Highway Research Institute (BASt) is a technical and scientific research institute responsible to the Federal Ministry of Transport, Building and Housing (BMVBW).
Responsibilities
• scientifically sound decision support on technical issues and questions of traffic policy for the Ministry
•drawing up and harmonisation of regulations and standards at national and European level[/i]
If you can read German, you can visit their website at http://www.bast.de where they have placed their publications online.
Saving fuel by changing driver behaviour, ensuring properly inflated tires, etc. as you’ve suggested are all great and valid ideas, but all require some effort on the part of the driver to achieve. Even if the driver understands these factors, he may still decide to do the same thing because it’s just too much trouble for him, much like me speeding on the highways even when I know it wastes gas. On the other hand, saving fuel by NOT turning on the headlights during daytime require NO effort on the part of the driver (assuming the car does not have daytime running lights).
If the driver does not consider daytime driving lights to be of enough of a safety concern, advocating turning on the headlights is in effect asking the driving to go out of his way (turning on the light switch) to waste fuel for no gain (in his eyes). Of course, whether it’s worth it for the sake of safety can be debated, but it’s not really what this poll was asking.
An additional 0.1L/100km may not mean much to a casual driver, but may mean quite a bit more to a taxi driver who’s on the road all day. Your mileage may vary (no pun intended).
Regardless of whether it improves the overall visibility of your car, I would have to say it is safer because you won’t forget to turn on your lights during low visibility/fog, going through a tunnel or when it rains or even under trees in bright sunshine (lot’s of crashes happen here), and they will already be on when dusk arrives.
Regardless of whether it improves the overall visibility of your car, I would have to say it is safer because you won’t forget to turn on your lights during low visibility/fog, going through a tunnel or when it rains or even under trees in bright sunshine (lot’s of crashes happen here), and they will already be on when dusk arrives.[/quote]
Agreed.
If using the lights makes for safer driving, I don’t mind how much “extra” fuel is (or is not) used.
I usually keep the light on my motorbike on during the day and always at night, of course, but at intersections, I have sometimes been reminded that my bike’s headlight was on and that I should turn it off.
Regardless of whether it improves the overall visibility of your car, I would have to say it is safer because you won’t forget to turn on your lights during low visibility/fog, going through a tunnel or when it rains or even under trees in bright sunshine (lot’s of crashes happen here), and they will already be on when dusk arrives.[/quote]Well, it definitely improves the visibility of cars, but many people argue that cars are visible enough already and that motorbikes and bicycles need all the help they can get!
I can see your point about fog etc. Not sure whether this outweighs the motorbike thing though.
Any load on the engine decreases gas mileage. If you can’t see and understand that you must be a liberal. (HaHa Slap leg)
As my car has just an 800cc engine I often switch off the AC when going up a steep hill or to get a bit of a turbo boost if I am passing someone… It has a noticable effect.
That being said, I don’t turn my lights off and get the same effect.