Heaven here and now on this earth

The Jesus of the gnostic scrolls warns us not to look up at the stars for some hereafter paradise, but to create the Kingdom of Heaven here on this earth.

In a similar, non-religious vein, this man has created an ideal society.

And it sounds awesome and inspiring in this day and age.

news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070821/wl … J0x8MDW7oF

I really want to see how this takes off. He could be the next world revolutionary.

I’ve always wanted to be an Ethiopian Marxist. I sure hope they rememeber this guy come Black Hstory Month.

That’s doesn’t conform to my ideal remotely.

Communes are back in fashion. Maybe it is the media, but communes always remind me of an isolated inward-looking cluster of families which would turn weird one day, usually sooner than later.

Yeah, it’s never long before some kind of internal security apparatus is raised by the communal leaders to punish any member who dares to question the leaders’ infinite wisdom. Then contact with family and friends is forbidden if there is even a hint of their displeasure with the commune. Before you know it offenders start showing up for breakfast with bruises. Then people go missing.

There’s used to be a wonderful little community in California called “The Family.” Leader was a fellow named Charles Manson. They bought an old school bus, outfitted as a hippiemobile and went cruisin’ around the country during that sultry summer of love, 1967. Totally man.

[quote=“gao_bo_han”]Yeah, it’s never long before some kind of internal security apparatus is raised by the communal leaders to punish any member who dares to question the leaders’ infinite wisdom. Then contact with family and friends is forbidden if there is even a hint of their displeasure with the commune. Before you know it offenders start showing up for breakfast with bruises. Then people go missing.

There’s used to be a wonderful little community in California called “The Family.” Leader was a fellow named Charles Manson. They bought an old school bus, outfitted as a hippiemobile and went cruisin’ around the country during that sultry summer of love, 1967. Totally man.[/quote]

I really think it’s sad that you’re so jaded. Even if it doesn’t conform with your ideals, and what with SJesus smart-aleck comments about Black History Month, I think it’s short-sighted for outsiders not to appreciate that these people have made a choice, nay they have dared to make a radical step into the unknown, and are doing well and are happy. The problem with modern man, myself included, is that we may be too cynical that we forgot things like hope.

I also find it a dangerous and charged statement to say that it doesn’t fit “your ideals.” and impliedly it therefore is of no import. I’ve heard people speak like that before … should we not each be free to create our own ideals (so long as we do not hurt others in the process)?

You bet. I’m not denying that such a place may fit other people’s ideals (like yours?), just not mine.

You bet. I’m not denying that such a place may fit other people’s ideals (like yours?), just not mine.[/quote]

haha. weaving is not exactly my ideal either, but I took your Manson post as cynicism.

It was and is cynicism, because I don’t believe commune type structures stay sane very long. The Israeli kibbutzim are an exception, but there is a lot of public light shed on those places and none of the negatives associated with communes have been demonstrated in the kibbutzim over the past century (with exceptions of course). Usually I’m suspicious of communes and given their record I think with good reason. This talk of Manson reminds me of a case in Canada where some guy founded his own religion, lived with multiple wives and had many children by them. The women’s children from previous marriages were labeled as “slaves” and were treated accordingly. They were tossed scraps of food at feeding time, which they fought over. When the state rescued them, they videotaped the kids hiding under tables, guarding their cereal bowls, not able to interact in a normal manner with anybody. The Canadian investigators sent by the court to determine whether the children be returned didn’t bother to watch the tapes. Instead they just talked to the commune leader (can’t remember his name), who beguiled them with tales of “living with nature, as God meant us to.” They recommended the children by returned. Through the efforts of the social worker who had discovered the abuses in the first place, the court saw some of the footage in court. The judge admonished the investigators and refused to return the children.

Oh yeah I almost forgot…the leader also diddled the children (all of them), murdered one of his wives and used her ribs to make a necklace, and chainsawed off another’s arm. In the made for TV movie I saw about it, he used a butcher knife, but when I read up on it later I discovered he used a chainsaw. Guess that’s what nature or God wanted or whatever.

Anybody know what case I’m talking about? Can’t find it online anymore.

Then why call this paradise or heaven on earth or whatever. No one is questioning these people’s rights…I just don’t trust believe these things typically end well.

Then why call this paradise or heaven on earth or whatever. No one is questioning these people’s rights…I just don’t trust believe these things typically end well.[/quote]

Because it was a reference to the idea that paradise cannot be earthly according to the people of the book. Because this Christian idea helps to minimalize any hope or incentive towards making this world a better one. Because if people just believe in the afterlife, they forget about this life… like the martyrs of jihad.

I do have similar sentiments regarding the cults you mentioned, believe me. But I find that those aberrations are often found in certain societies, and my radar only goes up when I hear certain beliefs being spouted… like the afterlife/aliens/other promises.

Whereashere, I find we just have a bunch of poor people trying to make a better community, one that is not based on religion, but hard work, equal labor, and better livelihood and protection for elders and children.

That is why I think you were too cynical. and I find that unfortunate. But I understand why… because we are part of a very cynical, jaded modern society… but these people are not. It took great courage for them to break away from tradition, risk ostracism, and try something practical in the hopes of improving their lives.

To disparage them by making comparisons to Manson, well, I simply do not agree, that’s all.

In the end, I hope you’re wrong about them. Because I hope for them.